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... Which, interestingly enough, means I probably read it around the same time that I was working my way through all of Asimov's stories.
I was gobbling up Asimov (well, the Foundation series, at least) right around 9th - 10th grade, with my Moorcock and Leiber.
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Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
Well I can sing many songs, but I wouldn't call it 'performing'...
....in fact most people would call it torture!
Ah, but you are not a Tolkenian hero, are you?
All joking aside, I am going to make a recommendation for The Witcher books by polish author Andrzej Sapkowski
They are just beggining to be published in English, and I haven't yet read that edition, but the Spanish translation is just wonderful... Snarky, grey-and-grey morality D&D-style fantasy with great characters and story
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Last edited by Amphimir Míriel; 13th July 2009 at 02:12 AM..
All joking aside, I am going to make a recommendation for The Witcher books by polish author Andrzej Sapkowski
They are just beggining to be published in English, and I haven't yet read that edition, but the Spanish translation is just wonderful... Snarky, grey-and-grey morality D&D-style fantasy with great characters and story
There is also a computer RPG out for it. It was pretty good.
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Count me in with the crowd that loves Lloyd Alexander. And, TwinB, yeah, totally with you on the bridge between Narnia and Middle Earth. Very much. Excellent series. I tried to add Cauldron Born to every campaign I ran. Statted up the Hunt any number of times. And the ape thing - Gigly, Gilli - what the heck was its name? Loved that. And the pteradactyl critters too.
But, it was a really smart series as well. Well worth the read.
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I double-dog-dare you to make your game sound super cool without comparing it to other editions. - paraphrased from Umbran.
Hmm, this makes me want to go back and try the New Sun books again. I started reading the first and got a little squicked out by the, uh, degloving (or de-booting or whatever the foot equivalent is) scenes and kind of drifted enough to leave it buried in the everpresent stack on my nightstand.
I will bring a dose of squick-resistance elixir (aka. Maker's Mark) with me this time.
And, come to think of it, maybe I ought to go dig out the Prydain books from the dusty recesses of my bookshelves...
Gene Wolfe is a tough read. I've found that you have to be in the right frame of mind. When I started reading Severain's story with focus rather than as a light read I could get into the story better. You also need a good dictionary. Being able to have the different beasties in mind, and knowing that Gene didn't make up any of the words out of whole cloth helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussar
And the ape thing - Gigly, Gilli - what the heck was its name?
"Ah, poor Gurgi, he has not the intellect of man or the wisdom of the animals."
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"Ah, poor Gurgi, he has not the intellect of man or the wisdom of the animals."
My sister, whom I love dearly, sparked my love of all things literary by reading novels to me when I was a nipper, usually just before bed. Susan Cooper and Lloyd Alexander were among the stories she narrated, so I'll always have a fondness for them.
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There is probably some very brutal truth to that, but there are some fantasy wizards that D&D could draw from just fine.
Sure, the D&D model for the Wizard was never anything like the way Gandalf or his fellow "wizards" rolled in The Lord of the Rings. Heck, they called them "Magic-users" back in the day - not Wizards. They drew much more from some romantic notions of Merlin the Magician, Rasputin, and even some implications from C.S. Lewis. The notion was of an Arcane Academic who, though years of study of arcane formula and forbidden secrets could manipulate the fabric of the universe for good or for ill. Thanks to Dragonlance, Raistlin Majere became the signature character for the Magic-user.
Which leads us back to the "angry, book-loving nerd that really wishes he could kill you with his brain." Because that's exactly what Raistlin Majere is.
Which leads us back to the "angry, book-loving nerd that really wishes he could kill you with his brain." Because that's exactly what Raistlin Majere is.
Interesting way to look at it... Never really thought about that one.
In fact, between her under-acting and his horrendous over-acting, they probably averaged out to one adequate performance.
I know we all think of our campaigns and games as thrilling A+ stuff, but in reality the average DM and Players aren't high talent authors/actors.
I'd say the majority of players out there have on numerous occasions faced evil wizards that are pretty much just like the performance by Irons... Overacted caricatures complete with insane overcomplicated plots.
The movie was bad, I wont argue that, but I kind of feel like it represents the average D&D campaign out there.
The average campaign is overused cliche plots and poorly acted caricature villains, opposed by equally poorly acted random hodgepodge heroes that stick together and do things... just because.
And that's part of the fun. It's goofy pulp style fun. It doesn't matter at the table that the trap is riddled with ways fpor the PCs to defeat it- because well... the sharks have frikkin laser beams!
I used to read all the D&D books- they were great (at the time I don't know if I'd still think so...) But they were never "really" like the average D&D campaign.
If you set out to make a "cool" movie you're going to have to make one that doesn't match the experience at the table really, like the books. It's a cool story, but is it REALLY D&D?
Which I think is the REAL problem.
I think there's a reason why things like KoTDT and OoTS and the PvP podcasts are so popular. They capture the feel of the game as it's played but they don't shy away from spoofing it. They embrace the silliness- we empathize with the story because it's just like our own experiences (slightly exaggerated.)
If you try to capture the experience but treat it too seriosuly at the same time, you just end up with a B movie (at best.)
I often wonder if Irons and the writer took inspiration from actual game play but the director thought he could still try for the "cool" side.
50+ published works, 2 Nebula awards, a Hugo award, an Edgar award, one of only 26 authors inducted as a Grand Master by the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Writers Association, and he's obscure?
Wow! If Jack Vance is obscure, who besides Steven King isn't obscure?
__________________ <exasperated DM> "Underlying what? ... motivation? Do you want to play Dungeons & Dragons or not?"
<drama obsessed player> "How can I narrate my character's co-mingled sense of alienation and ennui towards modern society in this second-rate dungeon hack? My character returns to the surface and uses his remaining gold to start up an organic coffee shop that caters to left-wing revolutionaries... and hot elvish chicks."
50+ published works, 2 Nebula awards, a Hugo award, an Edgar award, one of only 26 authors inducted as a Grand Master by the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Writers Association, and he's obscure?
I can see it. If I had never played D&D, I would never have heard of him. If you're really info sci-fi/fantasy, you might be familiar with all the award winners, but for me the list of winners of the Nebula, Hugo and Edgar awards is pretty hit-and-miss.
Vance is pretty big among fans of sci-fi/fantasy, but that does not preclude him from being generally obscure. Unless the original post was referring only to the sci-fi/fantasy genres and I missed it, in which case I would disagree.
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Yeah, he's obscure, and getting obscurer by the day. Less well known than Tolkien, Rowling, Pratchett, RA Salvatore, Moorcock, CS Lewis, Ursula K LeGuin, Frank L Baum, REH, ERB, George RR Martin, Edgar Alan Poe and Thomas Malory, to name but thirteen.
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50+ published works, 2 Nebula awards, a Hugo award, an Edgar award, one of only 26 authors inducted as a Grand Master by the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Writers Association, and he's obscure?
Wow! If Jack Vance is obscure, who besides Steven King isn't obscure?
Jack Vance is an older author.
As such, he tends not to fall into the 'flashy' of newer authors, even those whose works might not be considered 'good'.
In addition, the works most closely associated with D&D, don't have '50+ published' works to them. It's a handful of novels.
Given a poll to D&D players who started playing with 4e and give them R A Salvatore and Jack Vance, I strongly suspect the former would quickly outpace the latter.
50+ published works, 2 Nebula awards, a Hugo award, an Edgar award, one of only 26 authors inducted as a Grand Master by the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Writers Association, and he's obscure?
Wow! If Jack Vance is obscure, who besides Steven King isn't obscure?
If none of your works are currently in print? Yeah, that makes you obscure.
Vance didn't get the comic book and film treatments of Howard, nor did his fame extend from a different creation than the fantasy one (Tarzan being more famous than John Carter, for instance), and wasn't a huge popular figure like Heinlein whose books are still in print. Indeed, the first I heard of Vance was long after I started playing D&D in the early 90s, and it was in the context of discussing magical casting systems--ie Psionics vs. Vancian.
If none of your works are currently in print? Yeah, that makes you obscure.
Vance didn't get the comic book and film treatments of Howard, nor did his fame extend from a different creation than the fantasy one (Tarzan being more famous than John Carter, for instance), and wasn't a huge popular figure like Heinlein whose books are still in print. Indeed, the first I heard of Vance was long after I started playing D&D in the early 90s, and it was in the context of discussing magical casting systems--ie Psionics vs. Vancian.
Check the years on most of those 1999 (re-issues after the other went out of print) and later or 1984 and earlier (initial print runs). Also consider that there was no such thing as Amazon, wikipedia, or, hell, the internet with which to find those books. There were bookstores and word of mouth.
So, sure, I'll eat the "out of print." However I'll replace it with "widely unavailable." Just for comparison of books available now, I just did a search at four local Barnes and Noble (based on my ZIP code of Revere, MA) for both Leiber and Vance. In stock at the stores are Lankhmar Book 1 and Book 2. Literally none of Vance's work, and nothing else by Leiber. I also checked the Boston Public Library for "The Dying Earth." The Boston Public Library has exactly 2 copies, neither of which can be checked out of the library.
You'll note the resurgence of pulp fiction authors in the late 90's and early 00's, authors most people coming of age in the 80s and early 90s hadn't heard of because the books weren't in current printing.
The Witcher 
--that his actually wasn't the worst performance in that movie.
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