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Some of my friends and I are thinking of doing an M&M game with level 1 characters (15 points). Likely in a ye olde fantasy setting. Not sure if we are doing 1st or 2nd ed.
Anything we should be aware of before doing this?
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M&M is a great system, but both very low (and probably very high) PL's don't yield a particularly good play experience. I'd start with an absolute minimum PL of 4.
M&M is built around the idea that you 'advance' character by doling out PP after each adventure --character gain more abilities, not more powerful ones-- but you raise the campaign's PL rarely, if at all. For example, the fantasy source book for M&M, Warriors and Warlocks, suggests that the progression from gritty low-level characters to epic fantasy heroes covers PL 6-10.
__________________ "We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way." -- Boyd, Dollhouse.
Well, to give you an indication of how it (M&M 2e, that is) compares to 3e, the Elite Array (15,13,12,11,10,8 IIRC) for ability scores in the latter would cost 9 points, out of 15. If you want, say, a couple of feats, that's 11 points so far, without even touching Attack and Defence, f'rex. Let alone powers. Huh, or skills even.
I've actually run PL 1 (but not for very long) and it worked just fine. But the characters were more like 'ordinaries' (to begin with) than 'heroes' in the more popular sense.
PL 2, and you'd be fine for kinda D&D-at-level-1-ish play, IMO. Not precisely, of course, but it could be done. Not that I've tried to emulate it anyway, but that's my estimate for now.
Last edited by Aus_Snow; 12th July 2009 at 05:25 PM..
Reason: skills too!
Do you understand that Power Level isn't as level as per D&D but is intended as a cap on how high certain traits can go?
In 2e PL does not have any bearing on how many power points you are allowed to have. Similarly the number of power points does not have any bearing on what Power Level should be.
If you really want to emulate low-level D&D ask yourself how high a 1st-level D&D character could get their attack bonus, AC, damage, HP, that sorts of stuff. Then use that as a baseline for determining what PL you want to assign the game. Then build a few 1st-level D&D characters and convert their ability scores, skill ranks, feats, class abilities, and equipment into M&M terms and figure out how many points they need to spend to get there.
You can't just assume M&M and D&D will line up exactly, their systems aren't based on the same cost-benefit analysis.
Do you understand that Power Level isn't as level as per D&D but is intended as a cap on how high certain traits can go?
Right. Starting a group of fantasy heroes at PL1 means they technically shouldn't be able to wear chain mail or wield a battle axe (since that equipment would lead to Toughness saves and damage modifiers that violate the PL cap).
A good baseline might be found in the equipment tables. Figure out the bonuses conferred by the common weapons and armor found in the setting and set the PL to match.
You can ignore the PL caps/math. But that does invite the question: why use M&M in the first place?
(this is why starting at PL 5 or 6 is a good idea)
__________________ "We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way." -- Boyd, Dollhouse.
Some of my friends and I are thinking of doing an M&M game with level 1 characters (15 points). Likely in a ye olde fantasy setting. Not sure if we are doing 1st or 2nd ed.
Anything we should be aware of before doing this?
As stated above, you're going to start with some very ordinary whitebread characters... however, if you increase the PL over time? You'll develop characters who overtime can really dish out some interesting concepts.
Slainte,
-Loonook.
__________________ This Post and all others (c) Loonook, 2001-2009.
At PL 1, the maximum strength a character will be able to have is 12, and they will not be able to use any weapons because their maximum damage bonus is +1.
At PL 1, the maximum strength a character will be able to have is 12, and they will not be able to use any weapons because their maximum damage bonus is +1.
Technically you could take advantage of the "trade-off" rules (pg 24) to get up to 14 Strength, or use a weapon with 2 damage like a staff at a +0 attack bonus. Still, PL 1 M&M doesn't seem like it would be much fun.
Aside from perhaps running a few scenes for "pre-superpower superheroes", I don't think I'd go below PL 5 in M&M.
you're both wrong: The maximum normal STR is 13; tradeoff can bring it up to 15 (highest +2 before +3 16).
OP: I think it's a great idea, sort of.
use 2e. It's just better.
Keep in mind that the highest dmg bonus is +1; which means anyone avoiding damage must roll 16 (15+1 toughness save) to avoid injury.
HOWEVER this is only for rolls that involve saves. Skills can be as high as you like. Ditto Immunities. Ditto uncontested abilities. Flight can be whatever, I think... Super Strength also is ok, just not Enhanced ability (so you can life 40 million tons, but don't expect to do more than bruise with a punch). Ditto benefits (super wealthy! Super popular!)
At PL1 they're basically 0-level adventurers... well, commoners. This could/should be the story of how they level up. This is the level where they discover that Buffy is the Slayer, and that Sunnydale isn't the town they thought it was.
Higher-level monsters will be tough, but so long as their foes don't have damage-bonuses greater than +1 it doesn't matter who you throw at them.
Ever read David Eddings? This is the part where they're just kids who stumble upon the evil hedgemage's plot to destroy Loudwater! But who can they tell who'll listen to a blacksmith's fiery daughter, the bookish son of a cobbler, or their accident-prone pet wyrmling dragon? The old miller three farms over, that's who!
Consider using the XP tables for monsters rather than doling out a pp for each game session. You'll want to give them equipment (woo, a board with a nail +2!), which means a lump-sum of 15pp when the level up should work. Otherwise, it'll either take too long, or you're giving out PP in the middle of a session for every goblin they sneak around.
Letting them level up however works, but this would be the story of how they get their powers. Maybe one of them drinks a potion of Troll's Blood that gives them regeneration? Or another is transformed into a Golem? Or another finds a magical gem that lets them summon the Dragon-sword!
They can be non-standard powers, like super heroes, or they could be modeled after those of regular adventurers.
I think it's a good idea. ...you may have noticed that I tried to do it myself, but everyone else I told thought I was mad, MAD maaaaad! but I showed them, I showed the world! mrreeeehahahahahaaaaa!
You're totally right about this. it's a great idea for running the game, just make sure that whatever the bonus is, the average DC is 10 on the d20 (+modifier average). Keep things 50/50 and the PL isn't a big deal.
Keep in mind that the highest dmg bonus is +1; which means anyone avoiding damage must roll 16 (15+1 toughness save) to avoid injury.
HOWEVER this is only for rolls that involve saves. Skills can be as high as you like.
Not true; skills are limited to PL+5 ranks, so nobody can have more than 6 ranks in a skill.
Also, while the other things (that I snipped) aren't PL-limited, they are limited by the points he has to spend. And if he's doing PL1/15 pp, nobody's going to be able to afford much of anything -- no more than 7 ranks in Flight or Super-Strength, for example, which isn't millions of tons, and would leave the character a crippled one-trick pony, IMO.
__________________ - Bob Huss
[H]e's dead and poisoned and possibly insane on another plane. It's a very stylish death, but a definitive one. - Piratecat
Not true; skills are limited to PL+5 ranks, so nobody can have more than 6 ranks in a skill.
Right.
Quote:
And if he's doing PL1/15 pp, nobody's going to be able to afford much of anything...
Right again. At that point the PC's aren't going to have enough points to experience the benefits of the system.
If I were looking to recreate the whole arc of a typical D&D campaign using M&M, I'd run it from PL5 - PL10.
FYI, last Friday I ran the 1st session of my old D&D campaign converted over to M&M2e. The 13th level D&D characters became PL8 M&M characters, and they seemed just about right.
__________________ "We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way." -- Boyd, Dollhouse.
Skills: not true. Standard skills, yes, but pump them with benefits, like attractive, and numbers can get fairly high. Even without a numeric bonus, they can get fair mileage for their pp.
Also, 7 ranks of super strength is what, ES45? Several tons is better than no tons, and at that level they'll likely be more sneaky than kick-in-the-door. I imagine the players will go about collecting large rocks and hurling them through the air, or lugging massive wagons loaded with barrels of oil or explosive powder.
The PCs may be PL1, but the rest of the world isn't. If they can interact with it, set up circumstances (like tricking the giant into walking under the portcullis before closing it on him) that's totally fair.
One trick ponies... well, they're PL1 with 15pp. Heck, if they are utterly average with one thing they can do, like transform stuff into gold, they can buy their way into power. If they can fly, they'll fly the whole game. Wolverine is a claw monkey with healing powers. Maybe they're a character with 10 in every attribute, right, but they pump their resurrection power so it's automatic.
They can take flaws to their powers, too, right? So maybe the high Str only works for lifting/throwing rocks, not trees or metal? Or they can have leather armor, but it doesn't do anything for them when they're struck by magic, lightning, or piercing damage from arrows. That alone should do for +3 leather armor. Think of it as the low-level WoW character who fights kobolds for tattered leather vests.
But I do agree that PL1 is really limited. It could be really good for story-telling that apprentice-level story. Very OD&D, imho.
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