General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Meaning that a fan site where we could freely post D&D adventures without having to sign the GSL and everything that goes with it (and is a bit unclear about online publications) would be preferable.
But that was surely never on the cards, being, as it would have, a massive circumvention of the protections Wizards have written for themselves in the GSL.
Nothing in the policy seems to forbid posting characters, monsters, and all that malarky though. "...games, modules or applications..." is pretty specific, so I should wager (IANAL) that things like the monster and NPC wiki's are golden. Those are the kinds of projects that I personally was concerned about. Otherwise this looks to be standard fare.
__________________ "The last time I ran into myself, I kicked my own ass." Chasing the DM, a blog for DM's like me who really feel they should know what they're doing by now.
For DM's: 4E Dungeon Index (adventures, conversions, and sidetreks by level, last updated 16th Oct. through Dungeon #171).
Meaning that a fan site where we could freely post D&D adventures without having to sign the GSL and everything that goes with it (and is a bit unclear about online publications) would be preferable.
Yes, this policy firmly establishes fear, uncertainty, and doubt about posting pretty much anything D&D related online. Apparently they just don't get it that the main thing rpg's have going for them is the ability to create your own material for them. All they want is a pool of quiet, obedient consumers.
But that was surely never on the cards, being, as it would have, a massive circumvention of the protections Wizards have written for themselves in the GSL.
Nothing in the policy seems to forbid posting characters, monsters, and all that malarky though. "...games, modules or applications..." is pretty specific, so I should wager (IANAL) that things like the monster and NPC wiki's are golden. Those are the kinds of projects that I personally was concerned about. Otherwise this looks to be standard fare.
the words modules and applications are very broad in meaning and could represent pretty much anything they want
"You must spread some Experience Points around before giving it to Mark again."
The same thing happened to me!
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
(Emphasis mine) Notice the words right before "or sell"? Any publishing or distribution is off-limits according to this wording, whether you charge for it or not.
You are missing out the next sentence. Publishing and distribution is NOT off-limits; it's merely covered by a different license to this one. This license isn't the "publish adventures" license; the GSL is the "publish adventures" license.
Images on the zipped folder and make you agree to their terms of service. The interesting thing is that you're not allowed to create game material, etc. unless you're under the GSL.
No surprise there. Not a lot of difference between fan created material and published material. With the PDF explosion in the past five years the line blurred heavily.
You are missing out the next sentence. Publishing and distribution is NOT off-limits; it's merely covered by a different license to this one. This license isn't the "publish adventures" license; the GSL is the "publish adventures" license.
It will be interesting to see where the discussion goes when the inevitable nerdrage dies down. On other boards I've already seen the comparisons to T$R, "they're going to sue everyone!"-type comments which seem ridiculous on the face of them. The GSL does cover adventures, and hopefully we'll get clarification if things like statblocks are okay by themselves on fansites. It seems likely they are.
__________________ Iain Fyffe
Original member of the Rouseketeers!
I have played 4E. And just like all other editions of D&D, it is awesome!
no one quotes me in sigs - Crothian
For some reason, this doesn't fill me with rage. I must be interwebbing wrong. - Cadfan
The point you're missing is that the GSL says "no licensed product will include (a) web sites..."
Taken in conjunction with the fan site policy, that means you couldn't even use your fansite to publish your GSL approved adventure.
To recap - fansite policy says no adventures. GSL policy says no websites. The two effectively cancel each other out. Am I interpreting that incorrectly?
As a further point - "no Licensed Product...(f) be incorporated into another product that is itself not a Licensed Product (such as, by way of example only, a magazine or book compilation)". A website can't be a Licensed Product. And adventure that is "incorporated into" a website, is banned per this clause too. Again, am I reading it wrong?
PS: "Suits?" Honestly? Dude WotC just stop man. You're like a 70 year old man who just started trying to dance to hip hop. You aren't going to come off as being cool.
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
The point you're missing is that the GSL says "no licensed product will include (a) web sites..."
Taken in conjunction with the fan site policy, that means you couldn't even use your fansite to publish your GSL approved adventure.
To recap - fansite policy says no adventures. GSL policy says no websites. The two effectively cancel each other out. Am I interpreting that incorrectly?
You can host GSL adventures on a fan site so long as the adventure is stored as a "single-download electronic book format" (see GSL section 3). Section 5.5 shuts down other forms of content so no room-a-day updates for you!
So basically to get it directly from Wizards you have to agree to the 'Fan Site Policy', or you just ignore it and download it from somewhere else.
Sorry but forcing 'Fan Sites' into an agreement where they can't have folks download things they create for free won't fly in the majority of the community. Least I would hope it wouldn't.
Example, you have created a world in which you have fleshed it out completely. Towns/Cities/Countries/Politics/etc, think a small version of Forgotten Realms. You wouldn't be allowed to have the 'Fan Site' package unless it completely meets the GSL? What if your 'Fan Site' is for your 2E game? The way I read it, you wouldn't be allowed to use this. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Lord knows I am often enough.
Heck the way it reads, technically EnWorld wouldn't even qualify as a 'Fan Site'.
Sometimes folks just over-lawyer things, when WotC could have just said something to the effect of: "Your our fans, we offer these images for non-commercial use in conjunction with your self-created 'fan sites'. If found in use for commercial... yada yada yada" You get the point, than fans would willingly take them and use them.
Now all that being said, I do have to applaud them for taking the GIANT step forward in the attitude for 'fan sites' in general. This is a long way from the days of the TSR C&D Letters that went out to any site that dare mentioned D&D or looked like they did. For that definite props to WotC.
__________________ Bill
The Yeti aka Magnus the Archmage
~"Henry Bowman lives within each and everyone of us, and it's time to start acting like it. " A Story Hour set in Valus by Funeris http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=97346
PS: "Suits?" Honestly? Dude WotC just stop man. You're like a 70 year old man who just started trying to dance to hip hop. You aren't going to come off as being cool.
I've seen enough perfectly serious comments about "suits" here to realize it's a pretty common term when discussing WotC. I can't fault them for using it.
__________________ Iain Fyffe
Original member of the Rouseketeers!
I have played 4E. And just like all other editions of D&D, it is awesome!
no one quotes me in sigs - Crothian
For some reason, this doesn't fill me with rage. I must be interwebbing wrong. - Cadfan
Now all that being said, I do have to applaud them for taking the GIANT step forward in the attitude for 'fan sites' in general. This is a long way from the days of the TSR C&D Letters that went out to any site that dare mentioned D&D or looked like they did. For that definite props to WotC.
...Uh, what?
It's also a huge step back from 3e and from every other RPG developer in existance. Even White Wolf and their at times shady view towards websites is better then this.
You're praising WotC for giving you an STD instead of AIDs.
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Unfortunately this license clarifies pretty much nothing, especially concerning posting fan-created mechanics which I think people are far more interested in than using product covers.
For example, how does EN World and this forum in particular stand? Are they fine under this license? Or do they have to operate under the GSL?
Can I post a 4e encounter on a fan site or even here in the 4e Fan Creations? "Modules" are forbidden, but are a handful of encounters ok?
What about new classes, races, monsters? Use the fan site license or GSL?
Oh, and if you do have to use the GSL, it can no longer even be a fan site, it has to be a downloadable PDF or other non-HTML.
Also, if it does come down to "use the GSL for posting fan created content", then things like githyanki therapy and the massive amount of fan conversions of pre-4e material are no longer allowed. They reference material not in the SRD.
So I'm certainly not understanding the nerdrage at this and comparisons to the evil "T$R". I seriously doubt a wave of lawsuits are on their way. However, it is disappointing to see a company whose games I really enjoy acting so clueless and squandering opportunity after opportunity. It's not that this fan site license is "evil", it's just kinda worthless in it's current form.
Side note - I was wondering when WotC's next hilarious customer service blowout would happen
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
