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I've heard that Paizo is selling the Pathfinder PDFs for 10 $ - seems very desperate, considering the price of the so "sold out" books from the first print run... Probably flood the market now and a year later, announce Pathfinder GSL!
Just kidding. Cheap books or PDFs is probably more a sign of clever marketing than despair. Not to forget that WotC is apparantly bundling the books with others. If you invest in two rulebooks for a game, there is a fair chance you will pick up more along the way. No guarantees, but marketing can never guarantees anything.
My company has the habit of offering tons of vouchers and gift cards - "buy one photobook for 5 € less!" "10 € less!" in the hope that this will later lead to more sales (in addition to the initial sale generated by you using the voucher...) I don't know the "math" behind it, but I suspect it works... Heck, management once suggested that we should have a function where you can enter a voucher that basically said: "Don't have a voucher? Click here to get one!" (That, though, was never realized as far as I am aware. )
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I've heard that Paizo is selling the Pathfinder PDFs for 10 $ - seems very desperate, considering the price of the so "sold out" books from the first print run... Probably flood the market now and a year later, announce Pathfinder GSL!
Just kidding.
I know you were just kidding but it should be noted that Paizo announced the $9.99 price of the PFRPG PDF way before their first print of the book sold out.
__________________ I'm thinking you're totally out to lunch on this one. Find another form of foreplay that doesn't involve 3 hours of explanation and a pocket calculator.
I know you were just kidding but it should be noted that Paizo announced the $9.99 price of the PFRPG PDF way before their first print of the book sold out.
And, of course, PDFs are not items that must be moved, but rather, items that are cloned. Magic?
Given the sequence of events, this move to me sounds like a real fear-induced response to the initial buzz and success of the Pathfinder RPG. A last minute desperate attempt to distract attention away from the Homecoming Queen of the Con (PRPG) by wearing your prom dress backwards and dancing on a table in the back of the ballroom shouting "Look at me, MEEEE!!!!"
A last minute desperate attempt to distract attention away from the Homecoming Queen of the Con (PRPG) by wearing your prom dress backwards and dancing on a table in the back of the ballroom shouting "Look at me, MEEEE!!!!"
They're doing a pole dance and striptease at Gencon?
They're doing a pole dance and striptease at Gencon?
Copied and pasted from the Gen Con catalog:
SPA0900106
Pole Dancing For Fun and Fitness
Ever wanted to try pole dancing? Now is the time to give it a spin! This introductory class will teach you 11 different moves and one routine. This class will include spins and other low impact moves but it will be a workout! Dress comfortably, sweats or yoga pants preferred.
__________________ ENworld OAF (Old-school Admirer of 4th edition)
Ever wanted to try pole dancing? Now is the time to give it a spin! This introductory class will teach you 11 different moves and one routine. This class will include spins and other low impact moves but it will be a workout! Dress comfortably, sweats or yoga pants preferred.
*rushes to change his wife's GenCon schedule to include this event*
__________________ "The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth,
and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."
Even though The Wheel weaves as The Wheel wills, rest assured James Oliver Rigney, Jr. will NEVER be forgotten.
This feels to me like a desperate move on WotC's part. $5 PHBs with the purchase of any other 4e title? Seems to me like they were able to move a bunch of PHBs in the initial days of 4e's release but the sales of the rest of their products are in the toilet. That, and they probably ordered a huge print run of PHBs for sales that later failed to materialize after the initial hype died down.
The same kind of desperation that would lead Paizo to sell their core rules PDF for $10?
...oh, wait, that's not desperation - that's smart marketing. Just like this is.
You don't need to be desperate to want positive buzz. And you don't need to be hurting to offer your core book as a loss leader. (Arguably, it shows that you're in a fairly strong position if your business model can afford the sale of your main core book for a deep, deep discount.) Of course they also want to steal some of the buzz from Paizo and everyone else at Gen Con - Paizo wants to steal WotC's buzz, too. It's competition and smart business, and it's one of those things all of us can profit from.
What's more, they are promoting sales of their other books at full Convention prices to encourage people to buy at the Con rather than waiting to get home and ordering it from Amazon.
The PHB is and has always been the gateway drug for D&D. This gets WotC's name out there, gives them goodwill with fans, and may encourage people who are curious to pick it up.
So yeah. I know some folks want WotC to be shaking in their boots at the first sign of Paizo's success, but wishful thinking doesn't make it so. There are many better reasons to do something like this, and I for one am glad to see WotC taking the initiative and doing some smart marketing for a change.
The same kind of desperation that would lead Paizo to sell their core rules PDF for $10?
...oh, wait, that's not desperation - that's smart marketing. Just like this is.
You don't need to be desperate to want positive buzz. And you don't need to be hurting to offer your core book as a loss leader. (Arguably, it shows that you're in a fairly strong position if your business model can afford the sale of your main core book for a deep, deep discount.) Of course they also want to steal some of the buzz from Paizo and everyone else at Gen Con - Paizo wants to steal WotC's buzz, too. It's competition and smart business, and it's one of those things all of us can profit from.
What's more, they are promoting sales of their other books at full Convention prices to encourage people to buy at the Con rather than waiting to get home and ordering it from Amazon.
The PHB is and has always been the gateway drug for D&D. This gets WotC's name out there, gives them goodwill with fans, and may encourage people who are curious to pick it up.
So yeah. I know some folks want WotC to be shaking in their boots at the first sign of Paizo's success, but wishful thinking doesn't make it so. There are many better reasons to do something like this, and I for one am glad to see WotC taking the initiative and doing some smart marketing for a change.
As much as I dislike 4e, I agree this is just a marketing gimmick. How many books are sold during gencon anyway? How many phbs after one year?
No matter how well 4e sells, WotC could use a little good publicity (no offense to S.Rouse but things could have been handled better since the 4e announcement)
As for Paizo, selling cheap pdfs is just common sense. Selling them at the price of a hard copy and then complaining about piracy would be... well, you know.
__________________
_ Ceterum censeo the encounter/daily power system is an unholy blight upon D&Ddom
5e can't come soon enough
Last edited by lutecius; 10th August 2009 at 12:50 AM..
I think quite a few people in this thread are really jumping to conclusions here. To me it seems like WotC are just trying to take the wind out of the sails of Paizo and their Pathfinder RPG release.
I don't understand how Paizo can release the PDF of their core rulebook for $10 and get universal praise, yet WotC decides to sell their PHB for $5 at Gen Con and some posters immediately think this is a bad sign.
To me both of them are just attempts (and pretty reasonable ones at that) at marketing their product and generating some buzz.
I won't be at Gen Con so I definitely won't be taking up the offer. However, if I was, the promotion might have been enough to get me to finally buy the 4E core rulebooks (still happily playing 3.5E for now).
Olaf the Stout
__________________
Currently running my group through the Shackled City Adventure Path
From an historical perspective, the 1E AD&D Player's Handbook went through 17 printings from 1978 to 1990. The 17th printing was in July 1990, which is a year after the 2E AD&D Player's Handbook was released.
By the accounts of Ryan Dancey and others who saw TSR's financial situation in its final days, those printings were not in response to demand and unsold or returned copies were a major factor to TSR's bankruptcy. A print run also only means that a batch of copies has been produced, and gives no context whatsoever for how many copies.
So there is no perspective to be gleaned, no conclusion to be drawn from this data.
Selling a PDF product at 25%-50% of the print price is not unusual. Selling off print stock at 85% off cover price is something of considerable note. While I doubt all 40,000+ Genconers will take advantage of the savings, I am sure that some buyers will go back to the well multiple times. I'd imagine they could take several thousand copies to the big show and unload them over the four day stretch. However, I don't think of WotC as a reactive entity and doubt that Paizo's machinations have anything to do with this move. No, this is the beginning of another strategy, IMO. Either they are dumping stock to prep for a reprint with errata or, perhaps, some marketing research suggests that, almost exclusively, the only buyers of PH2s, and thus PH3s and PH4s (and maybe other player-targeted releases), are going to be people who own the PH1. So maybe this is a way of trying to encourage sales of subsequent core books and supplements to players.
By the accounts of Ryan Dancey and others who saw TSR's financial situation in its final days, those printings were not in response to demand and unsold or returned copies were a major factor to TSR's bankruptcy. A print run also only means that a batch of copies has been produced, and gives no context whatsoever for how many copies.
Selling a PDF product at 25%-50% of the print price is not unusual. Selling off print stock at 85% off cover price is something of considerable note. While I doubt all 40,000+ Genconers will take advantage of the savings, I am sure that some buyers will go back to the well multiple times. I'd imagine they could take several thousand copies to the big show and unload them over the four day stretch. However, I don't think of WotC as a reactive entity and doubt that Paizo's machinations have anything to do with this move. No, this is the beginning of another strategy, IMO. Either they are dumping stock to prep for a reprint with errata or, perhaps, some marketing research suggests that, almost exclusively, the only buyers of PH2s, and thus PH3s and PH4s (and maybe other player-targeted releases), are going to be people who own the PH1. So maybe this is a way of trying to encourage sales of subsequent core books and supplements to players.
Er, but you only get the $5 price if you buy ANOTHER WOTC D&D book.
This seems like more of a way to drive sales of the supplements than dumping the PHB.
The fact that WotC waited till now to announce it and that it's only at Gencon (AFAIK, the PF pdf price is staying the same for a while if not always) is what makes it seem like just a cheap gimmick and last ditch effort to steal some attention away from Paizo. Which is smart from a business sense, I'm not going to criticize them for doing it, even though I think it's rather pathetic and more aggressive action than I care for (did Paizo do anything to try and steal some thunder from WotC at the first GenCon to have 4E?). I'm also not going to commend them for doing it. Paizo's actions make it clear they want to provide affordable pdfs and products for their customers, at least taken as a part of their larger attidtude and actions overall. WotC's move stands out in contrast to everything else they've done lately and should not and will not garner the same positive feelings. Well, they did mail out freebies to registered DMs, so I guess this isn't an entirely unique circumstance.
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Er, but you only get the $5 price if you buy ANOTHER WOTC D&D book.
Sure. So, you're making comment that the loss in profits is spread over two books? Essentially, in your opinion, they either feel that the other books can't perform well on their own or have printed extra copies for this specific promotion? I don't know. This seems more oriented toward moving PH1s, specifically. Your post does also raise the question of whether or not this promotion will be shared with retailers.
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