WFRP - THIRD Edition Announced from FFG

[Iron Sky]

"Custom Dice give you unprecedented options for story-telling"

Has anyone ever found the type of dice you use to arbitrate mechanical elements give you "unprecedented options for story-telling"? Or effect the story-telling much at all?

[Obryn]

Originally Posted by Iron Sky

"Custom Dice give you unprecedented options for story-telling"

Has anyone ever found the type of dice you use to arbitrate mechanical elements give you "unprecedented options for story-telling"? Or effect the story-telling much at all?

I don't know that the concept is that outlandish... It seems like the custom dice will resolve actions in non-binary sorts of ways. They give you different results than a mathematical success/failure, a dice pool to count successes, or a bunch of dice to add up.

If they can pull it off, it could be really interesting.

-O

[hexgrid]

Originally Posted by Agamon

I'd say 50:1 against on that. It's a boxed set...from FFG...for $99. No minis or board? Very unlikely.

So why do you think neither are mentioned in the description of the game's content, or in the summary of how the mechanics work?

[thedungeondelver]

Originally Posted by Iron Sky

"Custom Dice give you unprecedented options for story-telling"

Has anyone ever found the type of dice you use to arbitrate mechanical elements give you "unprecedented options for story-telling"? Or effect the story-telling much at all?

I've found that using them with certain tables and charts for creating or fleshing out areas of a town, city, dungeon etc. they can be useful, but using them exclusively to "tell the story" I think you'll wind up with LINCOLN TUNNEL TUNA over and over.*


*- god help me my daughter is a fan of WIZARDS OF WAVERLEY PLACE, a tortuously bad show on DISNEY CHANNEL.

[MinionOfCthulhu]

Originally Posted by thedungeondelver

I've found that using them with certain tables and charts for creating or fleshing out areas of a town, city, dungeon etc. they can be useful, but using them exclusively to "tell the story" I think you'll wind up with LINCOLN TUNNEL TUNA over and over.*


*- god help me my daughter is a fan of WIZARDS OF WAVERLEY PLACE, a tortuously bad show on DISNEY CHANNEL.

That is VERY INTERESTING. Tell us more about SHOWS YOU SECRETLY WATCH on THE DISNEY CHANNEL.

[Rykion]

The game looks interesting. I actually like that it is a new game rather than a few tweaks to an existing system. I like WFRP 2E and have everything I need to play it from now until I die if I want to.

This game looks to be focused on bringing in new players. I think the dice pool mechanic looks interesting. The information from FFG's website indicates the GM runs the game, not the dice. The "story-telling" aspect of the rolls seems to be that some dice results can indicate something unusual happening rather than just success or failure. Using cards as play aids is a good idea, but I hope all the same information is in the books. The game looks geared to a heroic start rather than the some of the basic careers from previous editions.

The $100 price tag seems high, and the components are meant for a GM and 3 players. If you have more than 3 players you have to pick up the Adventurer's Toolkit for more dice and cards. It also appears the 4 starting races are humans, dwarfs, high elves and wood elves. Halflings are out, at least from the initial release.

It definitely doesn't look like everyone's cup of tea, but I'll pick it up to check it out.

[Primal]

I'm not so sure that a single rulebook will be enough for a whole group of players... IME that slows things down radically both during character creation and gameplay as everyone wants to browse skill descriptions, spells, item lists, etc. And none of the guys in my group would spend a 100 dollars just to get an extra copy of the rulebook.

I just don't see the potential in this pricing model, as I'm not paying for "nothing"; if I'm handing out 20-25 dollars for a game, I expect I'll get a book for that price and I would *never* pay for a "shared" boxed set the GM or one of the other guys gers to keep. Just as I wouldn't pay more than 5 dollars for a "shared" boardgame or computer game or novel; I want my own copy I can read/play whenever I want to.

[Rykion]

Originally Posted by Primal

I'm not so sure that a single rulebook will be enough for a whole group of players... IME that slows things down radically both during character creation and gameplay as everyone wants to browse skill descriptions, spells, item lists, etc. And none of the guys in my group would spend a 100 dollars just to get an extra copy of the rulebook.

The game's blurb mentions "More than 300 cards keep you in the game, no need to look up skills or abilities." The whole point of the play aids seems to be that players won't need a book in front of them during play. I don't know about during character creation though.

[Obryn]

Yeah, cards can do wonders for keeping important information at-hand. In our 4e game, we pretty much never open up actual books to look up character abilities.

I can absolutely believe that the cards for this would obviate the need for multiple books at the table.

-O

[Moridin]

Originally Posted by Primal

I'm not so sure that a single rulebook will be enough for a whole group of players... IME that slows things down radically both during character creation and gameplay as everyone wants to browse skill descriptions, spells, item lists, etc. And none of the guys in my group would spend a 100 dollars just to get an extra copy of the rulebook.

The blurb on the FFG website indicates that it comes with four copies of the rulebook. That doesn't alleviate your concerns about wanting your own copy--but if you're the one to buy the box, you can supply the stuff for three players to play with (in case you have players that aren't so adamant about owning things themselves, as I know many gamers are).

[MinionOfCthulhu]

Originally Posted by Rykion

It also appears the 4 starting races are humans, dwarfs, high elves and wood elves. Halflings are out, at least from the initial release.

Wood elves? That's weird. They're really more of the "sit in their forest with their stolen children, avoid Chris Hanson, and kill anyone who steps on a twig" kind of people rather than "roam around seeking fortune and fame".

[Rykion]

Originally Posted by Moridin

The blurb on the FFG website indicates that it comes with four copies of the rulebook. That doesn't alleviate your concerns about wanting your own copy--but if you're the one to buy the box, you can supply the stuff for three players to play with (in case you have players that aren't so adamant about owning things themselves, as I know many gamers are).

It comes with 4 books, but only 1 main rulebook. The other 3 books are a book on wizards, a book on religion and a GM's book.

Edit: The blurb mentions 4 rulesbooks, but it is made more clear in the product's description on FFG's website.

[Moridin]

Originally Posted by Rykion

It comes with 4 books, but only 1 main rulebook. The other 3 books are a book on wizards, a book on religion and a GM's book.

Edit: The blurb mentions 4 rulesbooks, but it is made more clear in the product's description on FFG's website.

Ah, OK! Thanks for clearing that up.

[Rykion]

The hopeless gamer blog has some pictures from Gen Con up, including 4 pictures of some of the contents of WFRP 3E.
The Hopeless Gamer
You can find links to the pics on the left or just go to older posts until you find them. The third picture shows a character sheet.

[mach1.9pants]

Originally Posted by Henry

...It sounds like an excellent opportunity to get boardgame enthusiasts into an RPG that can gateway them into tabletop roleplaying, but just the one picture of that troll slayer stat card tells me enough to know I'm probably not going to like it as a substitute for WFRP2. ...

Yeah I agree, this definetely looks like an entrance product. One of our players also is a real big, once a week, board gamer. Another plays a lot with his better-half. So dragging this box to one of the board game sessions sounds like an awesome idea, maybe our weekly DnD session might gain some converts? To me it is a bit like 4E being an TTRPG with strong 'tactical minis game' elements. We like the Tac Minis bit as we were all wargamers, we can get a small wargame fix as well as RPlaying, which is a good thing as none of us a wargamed for ages.

Originally Posted by Moridin

[*]Party-based Mechanics: Some of the preview material makes it look like you build characters, but you also build your party. I've always been fascinated by the idea of attaching mechanics to a whole party of heroes (really reinforcing the teamwork aspect of the RPG), providing special abilities and tactics based on your party makeup.

Yeah I like this idea, I really liked the noble family mechanics is SIF RPG, they are party mechanics, things you have to share.

[*]One Product for the Whole Gaming Group:

Very 'boardgamey' but, not a bad idea IMO. I really doubt there will be many conversions from the real old-school game that is 2E!

Originally Posted by MinionOfCthulhu

That is VERY INTERESTING. Tell us more about SHOWS YOU SECRETLY WATCH on THE DISNEY CHANNEL.

LOL

Originally Posted by Rykion

It comes with 4 books, but only 1 main rulebook. The other 3 books are a book on wizards, a book on religion and a GM's book.

Edit: The blurb mentions 4 rulesbooks, but it is made more clear in the product's description on FFG's website.

If it is anything like 4E then you just don't need more than one rule book, the rules are so 'self contained' on the char sheet etc that we only get a PHB out to clarify a rule about once per session.. and then we actually use the Compendium, normally the glossary

If this is a good product (and can be got reasonably cheaply on Amazon) I'll get a copy and go on a mission to the Boardgamers, a crusade to convert them to the ONE TRUE GAMING style: TTRPG!

[Primal]

Originally Posted by Moridin

The blurb on the FFG website indicates that it comes with four copies of the rulebook. That doesn't alleviate your concerns about wanting your own copy--but if you're the one to buy the box, you can supply the stuff for three players to play with (in case you have players that aren't so adamant about owning things themselves, as I know many gamers are).

Each boxed set seems to come with four different rulebooks (one for wizards, one for priests, one for the game master and one actual rulebook); this means that everyone who wishes to have their own copy of the core rules must pay 100 dollars to buy the box (unless, of course, FFG intends to sell them as separate copies, too -- which they definitely should, in my opinion).

Most gamers I know (as you said) don't want to pay for a "shared" box; if they dish out 20-25 dollars, they expect to get something concrete in return. Having said that, I don't see this sort of business model going over very well with existing WFRP fans... I think a major portion of the current fan base started with the 1st edition (or are still playing it), so any experimental mechanics that bring the game closer to a boardgame may be too much. I wonder if FFG should have tested the waters with a different brand name to see how these changes are received among gamers; as WFRP does not have the same level of brand recognition D&D and WoD has, this may yet bite them in the ankle. A simpler version of the rules combined with the high price and cards and general "boardgame feel" may alienate the existing fans and fail to bring in the "new crowd".

Just some thoughts.

[Primal]

Originally Posted by Rykion

The game's blurb mentions "More than 300 cards keep you in the game, no need to look up skills or abilities." The whole point of the play aids seems to be that players won't need a book in front of them during play. I don't know about during character creation though.

After looking at those pics from GenCon, seems like every adventure needs its own, unique 'party sheet', and that char. sheets are not filled in the traditional way anymore; I don't like it. Imagine the chaos when someone accidentally sweeps all your "markers" and cards or whatever you keep track of your skills and wounds and items with from the table (has happened to me a lot of times with boardgames); you practically lose all info on your "sheet" (including your advancements). What about after the session? You write it all down? Keep the "sheets" with everything (cards, markers, dice) attached to them on your shelf?

Seems a bit uncomfortable for my taste.

[Primal]

I also realized something... when I was doing collection development for the RPG collection at the library I work at, I deliberately ignored WFRP supplements as I knew 3E was in development; however, no public library will likely purchase a game that has so much cards, dice and extra play aids they constantly need to replace with lost ones. Well, maybe I'll purchase some 2E supplements for the collection next year... *sigh*.

[gribble]

Originally Posted by Moridin

'm not saying the game will be good, but I think it's going to be very, very interesting to see how the game looks. Then again, if it plays like a roleplaying game, I'm perfectly amiable to the idea of radically different components and sales models.

Couldn't agree more. As long as it still plays like a RPG, I couldn't care less whether you use standard or special dice, or whether you use P&P character sheets, character builder generated sheets and cards or a character folio comprised of cards and counters.

[Nightchilde-2]

Normally, I'm all for new editions. I tend to love them.

In this case? Not so much.