General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
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Is it because errata just won't cut it? Or there are better ways to do what is wanted with the system?
Is it because the companies' profits are dwindling, and they need a reboot to get more money?
Is it to generate buzz and get new people into the hobby?
I'm not picking on any company in particular. I mean recently we've had the WHFRPG announce a new release. We've still got Shadowrun 4e and D&D 4e out. Not to mention HERO is retooling their game.
There a two major reasons, IMHO - which one depends on the basic nature of the system.
A list-based system, like D&D, that expands by simply adding new mechanics for each new thing it wants to model eventually falls apart under the weight of it suplements. You need a new edition every 5 or 10 years (depending on your publishing schedule), because if you don't reboot it, it becomes crap and people start to realize that buying each new book makes the game /worse/.
An effects-based system, like Hero System, doesn't have that problem, it's core mechanics cover just about everything, and you can add setting and sourcebooks to it without hurting it. The downside is that nothing but the core rules really sells that well, since that's all you really need to play the game. So, you need a new ed now and then, just to stay in business.
Generating interest in the franchise or the hoby in general is also a fair motive. It really only works for established properties, like D&D. 'Innovative' new games, also tend to energize the hobby and bring in new people. But, an new ed of a minor game, however innovative, really won't make much of an impact that way.
I think from a companies standpoint it´s dwindling sales and shiny new toys.
When should it happen?
I for one can say that i applauded the annoncment of 3e, because DMing 2e was a shore with the necessary rules spread out over dozens of supplements. I know i was really giddy at the prospect of a new core with 3 books, with all relevant rules updated and streamlined in a cohesive whole.
That´s dovetail well with my current dislike of 4e: it´s apparently designed to bloat on it´s own books with it "everything is core" philosophy.
So, i think a new edition should come along when the old becomes to convoluted and unwieldy to play
I think going beyond more company decision type stuff. Another good reason for edition change is to help develop the fanbase and open it up. One edition may cater to a certain group, another edition caters to another group. So by bringing out new editions you can spread the core concept of that game to different crowds of gamers.
__________________ Secret Member of... *blink, blink* Damn you amnesia!
I would have thought the answer was obvious to everybody.
This. Check out 3.x writer Monte Cook's review of Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 for an insiders take on Wizards of the Coast.
A few weeks ago, in an interview at gamingreport.com I said that 3.5 was motivated by financial need rather than by design need -- in short, to make money rather than because the game really needed an update. I said that I had this information from a reliable source.
That source was me. I was there.
See, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, which might make you mad: 3.5 was planned from the beginning.
Well, I have to say I like 4E, but never before has the treadmill of supplements been so clear before. WOTC is gonna make them till the game explodes. The main question is when I get off the treadmill.
As for new editions, I think a lot of it is the new thing. #rd edition is better than 2nd and 11th is better than 10th. New editions generate discussion and interest, and that a desire to see what is done. From a human standpoint hte new is usually sen as better than the old, even if it is or is not.
4e, with it's restricted multiclassing and self-contained classes might be a bit less susceptible to death-by-over-publication. Even with the agressive salesmanship of the 'everything is core' philosophy. Rather than saying 'core only' when you want to run a functional game after stacks of suplements have been issued, you can instead restrict your game to a few power sources, and likely get much the same effect, while still being able to run a variety of campaigns. A Martial, Primal, Divine campaign, for instance, would be quite distinct from a Martial, Arcane, Psionic campaign - but, with only so many books supporting each source, each would be managable.
That is, assuming WotC can resist the temptation to publish Arcane Power 2 through /n/....
Is it because errata just won't cut it? Or there are better ways to do what is wanted with the system?
Is it because the companies' profits are dwindling, and they need a reboot to get more money?
Is it to generate buzz and get new people into the hobby?
I'm not picking on any company in particular. I mean recently we've had the WHFRPG announce a new release. We've still got Shadowrun 4e and D&D 4e out. Not to mention HERO is retooling their game.
So why does it happen? And when SHOULD it happen?
All of them. Enough customers have to want the new edition for it to be a success - so hard to patch flaws in the existing system help there. And a gaming business has to figure that they'll make more money with that product, else they won't make it.
__________________ "I'd like to shake the hand of the genius who invented that - just the hand, after it's been cut off from the now screaming man."
with new hires and raises you need to generate revenue. this means selling more product. your base product is going to reach a plateau after the initial hype wears off. so the number of new players in won't be the same.
selling supplements and other regalia helps stem the flow of income loss. but these products don't generate the same income as the initial either.
so the only way to stay in the business is to push new product that generates a new hype.
new editions do this mostly.
doesn't mean we have to like it. cuz it surely does mean the company is only in it for the money and not the hobby.
or as Andy Collins put it at Gen Con this year during the ENnie Awards. he wanted to work for TSR. the only way for that to happen was to convince Peter to buy the company.
__________________ Damn 4e is nothing but Magic: the Gathering with dice! --Joshuas Randallus
Last edited by DaveyJones; 19th August 2009 at 12:52 PM..
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
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Economics is one factor, but it depends on the game design.
GURPS is an example. The waiting time between editions is almost the reverse of the D&D method. GURPS worked out its flaws quickly, then they wanted to stay the same for a long time because of the supplements and (I guess) felt that it would be better for their market for the game to remain the same. I forget when 3rd Edition GURPS came out, but I think it remained stable for about 15 years before they release 4th Edition.
In many cases, if the rules are bad but the setting is popular, you might see new editions because of errata. I think Vampire had a few "revised editions" before remaining stable for years before the "New World of Darkness".
CoC is pretty stable--edition changes pretty much mean errata and adding a few new rules.
More radical changes might come from either the property changing hands, or a true desire to "reboot" from year to year. Look at all the changes to Traveller, RuneQuest, ArsMagica, etc. It can also come from what I would call more liberal or experimental designers being involved.
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