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Um.....We are suggesting that referring to downloading (illegal or not) as "piracy" is a nasty semantics game, intended to introduce moral ambiguity, that we do not feel like playing along with.
Like I said, you can refer to it however you want. I'm not going to play along with the semantics game this go-round. I'm not introducing a novel or unfamiliar usage of the term, so any hypothetical moral weighting of it isn't my concern, and I'm not going to stop using a common term for fear of offending your sensibilities. (Besides, last I checked pirates are cool nowadays.)
Refering to pdf downloading as piracy isn't really that much of a gunshot. Like Obryn said, nobody is going to think they're sailing the seas and kidnapping people.
Hell, most people when the heard of the Somalian pirates went "Wait, real pirates still exist...?"
Calling it piracy isn't a loaded turn, because that assumes there's someone doing the loading. I don't think most people hear about .pdf piracy and immidaitely thinks of Blackbeard. I don't think anyone does, at that.
Complaints about the word of it just seems kinda...pointless. It's a non-issue.
That said, I would love to see a piracy case where the defendant actually did walk in wearing a full pirate costume.
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Not everything in 4e is a stat-block. PHB, DMG and PHB2 & DMG2 have lots of text worth reading which isn't found in the Compendium.
Well, I agree with you on this. However, I see the functionality of PDFs being chiefly related to portability (ie, having it as a reference during the game without having to physically carry the book).
So I guess I concede on that point.
__________________ The Fearless DM(standard; at will; recharge )
The term piracy is contextually charged both in a positive way (romantically) and negative way (in regard to legality) but it has become common parlance.
In the US, at least, you are always entitled to a backup copy of any work you own, whether it be a physical copy or a digital medium. As a lawyer, you should know this. Downloading a copy of a book I paid hard earned cash for is neither illegal, nor immoral.
As a lawyer, I absolutely know that downloading a pirated copy is illegal.
Keeping a copy for yourself is not the same as downloading an illegal copy.
The term piracy is contextually charged both in a positive way (romantically) and negative way (in regard to legality) but it has become common parlance.
Exactly. I'm sure there are a lot of folks who distribute PDFs through torrent sites that see themselves as a modern-day Robin Hood. Or maybe even Karl Marx getting even with "The Man". I'm not saying they are that, it's just that's how they romantically perceive themselves.
As a lawyer, I absolutely know that downloading a pirated copy is illegal.
Keeping a copy for yourself is not the same as downloading an illegal copy.
Hmm, I always thought the distribution was illegal, but acquisition wasn't.
For example, if dude X put a PDF up on his web site and allowed dude Y to download it, it would be dude X who got in trouble, rather than dude Y. Dude X has a legal copy which he bought, dude Y has an unauthorized copy which he got for free, but dude X was the one who broke copyright law via distribution of the PDF.
(BitTorrent clouds this issue, because people call it "downloading" when really it is "a bunch of simultaneous uploading and downloading".)
Cheers, -- N
__________________
Brevity is the soul of wit, so trim your sig or look dumb.
As a lawyer, I absolutely know that downloading a pirated copy is illegal.
Keeping a copy for yourself is not the same as downloading an illegal copy.
Ethically I think they are different too, as in one case even if you may be reasonably entitled to have a copy you are encouraging somebody who is not being careful of other peoples property.
Location: “Over the Hills and Far Away” - (TDY in Florida - "Home" is Michigan)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nifft
Hmm, I always thought the distribution was illegal, but acquisition wasn't.
For example, if dude X put a PDF up on his web site and allowed dude Y to download it, it would be dude X who got in trouble, rather than dude Y. Dude X has a legal copy which he bought, dude Y has an unauthorized copy which he got for free, but dude X was the one who broke copyright law via distribution of the PDF.
(BitTorrent clouds this issue, because people call it "downloading" when really it is "a bunch of simultaneous uploading and downloading".)
Cheers, -- N
I'm pretty sure "Acquisition" is just as illegal. I don't think the law really diferentiates.
It just seems it's more effective and easier to sue distributors than it is the plethora of those who have downloaded, which for small amounts would probably just amount to small penalties and damages (relatively speaking - there's the probability of more damage$ from someone who's responsible for a few hundred or thousand downloads, than someone who downloaded a few pdf's).
__________________ Mark "El Mahdi" Armstrong - Semper Operor Verus
". . . after all, that is why we're here. Kill the last bad guy and then there's cake." - Major General Jack O'Neal
"Don't Just Do It, Just Do It Right!"
"Right, without Reason, is unmitigated Foolishness."
"If you make a mistake, Acknowledge It, then make it Right."
So what use would that Kindle even be? A netbook that can reach iplay4e.com or DNDInsider.com is of much more use. When I write my own adventures I post them on a live document site (I use writer.zoho.com, but it could just as easily be Google Wave or Google Docs or something similar).
There are advantages and disadvantages with a kindle dx compared to a netbook.
The main advantage is battery life. Days compared to hours between charges.
E ink tech is easier on your eyes. then reading a computer screen.
I can also reach the internet with the kindle dx but a netbook is easier to use.
The size and weight advantage depends on the size of the netbook.
I could always use my Itouch to read pdf's as an email attachment or buy an app that would let me load it on the Itouch.
I orignally was stating why Wizard's should do pdfs and gave the kindle Dx as an example. Not an all out answer. Its just a matter of preference.
So I say yes to pdfs.
__________________ something wicked this way comes
Sigh. OK, if you're going to set up strawmen, and intentionally misconstrue what I'm saying, I can see where this is going and we're done. Or do you really, actually think I was claiming that getting legitimately free & legal stuff from torrents is piracy?
I know I am not in control of what you are saying, so it is up to you to say it as clearly as possible. It's ridiculous to think getting free and legal stuff is piracy, but then, it would also be ridiculous to claim anything else is piracy which, in the final analysis was not infringing. Claiming something is piracy because it's illegal, and illegal because it's infringing, is a circular argument if you think piracy means "infringing by copying." I'm not just playing games when I pointed out that you talked yourself into a corner; you did actually beg the question of what piracy is.
Quote:
You and RC can play semantic games all you like, but I'm not going to play along. The term, "PDF piracy" is easily understandable to whoever's reading this thread. It's a common - even dictionary-based - definition, and I won't play the redefinition game where a few folks are abducting common, easily understood words and phrases for their own purposes.
Nobody's going to get confused if we talk about RPG book piracy.
Piracy is a commonly used word which is easily misused. I have no idea who you claim is redefining words. Perhaps you can spell it out for me so I can understand your frustration. I do know that "infringe" is a common, easily understood and precise word.
Piracy certainly is ambiguous. It could refer to illegal uploading, illegal downloading, illegal copying, or illegal filesharing. It could refer to selling or distributing bootlegs for gain, it could refer to casual file-swapping, or, and this is important, it could refer to something unauthorized that a copyright owner does not like and considers illegal, but which could in fact be legal.
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Nobody is going to think I'm taking about hijacking a container ship and stealing physical books. Nobody is going to think it's a hangable offense.
-O
Then why use a term that refers to a hanging offense for it, except to ratchet up the rhetoric and replace logic with emotion and ridicule?
I know I am not in control of what you are saying, so it is up to you to say it as clearly as possible. It's ridiculous to think getting free and legal stuff is piracy, but then, it would also be ridiculous to claim anything else is piracy which, in the final analysis was not infringing. Claiming something is piracy because it's illegal, and illegal because it's infringing, is a circular argument if you think piracy means "infringing by copying." I'm not just playing games when I pointed out that you talked yourself into a corner; you did actually beg the question of what piracy is.
Yes, clearly you've won the internet because I forgot to include a word in a post. Shine on!
Quote:
Piracy is a commonly used word which is easily misused. I have no idea who you claim is redefining words. Perhaps you can spell it out for me so I can understand your frustration. I do know that "infringe" is a common, easily understood and precise word.
Piracy certainly is ambiguous. It could refer to illegal uploading, illegal downloading, illegal copying, or illegal filesharing. It could refer to selling or distributing bootlegs for gain, it could refer to casual file-swapping, or, and this is important, it could refer to something unauthorized that a copyright owner does not like and considers illegal, but which could in fact be legal.
Then why use a term that refers to a hanging offense for it, except to ratchet up the rhetoric and replace logic with emotion and ridicule?
Like I said, I'm not going to play these semantic games. Go ahead and use whatever terms you want - I'm not going to dance with you.
Obryn, I respect that you are commited to intellectual integrity in discussing this issues. I wish you would extend to me the same assumption of good faith. I am sorry for the discussion to end on this note.
Like I said, I'm not going to play these semantic games. Go ahead and use whatever terms you want - I'm not going to dance with you.
I'm with you Obryn, I too feel that complaining about the use of the word "piracy" to describe illegal filesharing is off-topic and quite silly.
But . . . they did kinda suck you into the semantic debate, despite your best efforts.
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
But . . . they did kinda suck you into the semantic debate, despite your best efforts.
Did he actually make an effort?
I know I get sucked into things I think I should simply avoid. That's why I responded in this thread in the first place.
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
Wait, now people are complaining about the word used to describe illegally taking something that is not yours? Really? How about we use thief instead? Is that better? hhehe
) 
, -- N
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