General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Wait, now people are complaining about the word used to describe illegally taking something that is not yours? Really? How about we use thief instead? Is that better? hhehe
I'm afraid so... he got that nasty color after drinking some "water" from a stream in Morgul Vale.
__________________ 'Can a magician kill a man by magic?' Lord Wellington asked Strange. Strange frowned. He seemed to dislike the question. 'I suppose a magician might,' he admitted, 'but a gentleman never could.'
Wait, now people are complaining about the word used to describe illegally taking something that is not yours? Really? How about we use thief instead? Is that better? hhehe
Same problem; copyright infringment =/= theft. I will certainly agree that there is a relationship between the two crimes, but they are not the same thing.
RC
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
MGM vs. Grokster: "Deliberate unlawful copying is no less an unlawful taking of property than garden-variety theft."
Deprivation is not an essential element in every kind of theft. For example, there is a type of theft called theft of service. It often comes up in situations where, for example, you splice into your neighbor's cable get all their cable stations for free, You didn't actually diminish the available supply of cable TV or your neighbor. But you're still acquiring something of value without paying for it, and you're doing it without the seller's permission.
It's a type of theft I think. If people don't like using the blanket general term theft, they can use an alternate subset-term for this kind of theft. But, it's still a for of theft in my opinion.
The Grokster case affirms that unlawful copying is as much a crime as theft is, but it carefully avoids calling it theft. Mainly because the Supreme Court already said that copyright infringement was not theft.
Doesn't make it legal, ethical, or moral; but it's not theft.
__________________ We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - Werner von Braun
Right now you have no idea how lucky you are that I am not a sociopath. - A sign seen above my desk.
Never confuse movement with action. - Ernest Hemingway
When you download something from a server, you are making a new copy. Before there was a copy on the server. Now there's a copy on the server and on your hard drive.
__________________ <exasperated DM> "Underlying what? ... motivation? Do you want to play Dungeons & Dragons or not?"
<drama obsessed player> "How can I narrate my character's co-mingled sense of alienation and ennui towards modern society in this second-rate dungeon hack? My character returns to the surface and uses his remaining gold to start up an organic coffee shop that caters to left-wing revolutionaries... and hot elvish chicks."
I know I get sucked into things I think I should simply avoid. That's why I responded in this thread in the first place.
We all do, we all do. If I only had a nickel each time I thought, "I should really stop reading this thread and not post, but . . . ."
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
I think it was more of a "I'm not going to get involved in this debate, but I am going to try to get the last word" sort of thing. (Which we also all do.)
If he had simply ended with "I'm not going to get involved in this debate" there would be nothing to reply to, and consequently no further discussion.
RC
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
The Grokster case affirms that unlawful copying is as much a crime as theft is, but it carefully avoids calling it theft. Mainly because the Supreme Court already said that copyright infringement was not theft.
Doesn't make it legal, ethical, or moral; but it's not theft.
Well, while it may not be theft in strict legal terms, Congress passed the NET act, or No Electronic Theft act, which was passed after the referenced case as follows.
So, if congress titles the bill with theft, the president signs it, even if it's not technically "theft", from what I see, our government equates the severity of copyright infringement as equal to or a type of theft.
__________________
Forum FYI:
Kask is not the famous Tim Kask of the early days of TSR
I am that weird guy you see buried deep down in the credits section on many of EGGs later products.
Well, while it may not be theft in strict legal terms, Congress passed the NET act, or No Electronic Theft act, which was passed after the referenced case as follows.
So, if congress titles the bill with theft, the president signs it, even if it's not technically "theft", from what I see, our government equates the severity of copyright infringement as equal to or a type of theft.
Not so much. Congress can title a law whatever they want, but if you look at 17 U.S.C. §§ 506 on the page you linked, none of the criminal offenses is titled or described as theft. The NET act is titled the way it is because it strokes Congress's recent fetish for giving bills cute acronyms.
__________________ We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - Werner von Braun
Right now you have no idea how lucky you are that I am not a sociopath. - A sign seen above my desk.
Never confuse movement with action. - Ernest Hemingway
I think it was more of a "I'm not going to get involved in this debate, but I am going to try to get the last word" sort of thing. (Which we also all do.)
If he had simply ended with "I'm not going to get involved in this debate" there would be nothing to reply to, and consequently no further discussion.
Everyone should get to win the Interwebs at least once.
I'm with you Obryn, I too feel that complaining about the use of the word "piracy" to describe illegal filesharing is off-topic and quite silly.
And also simply wrong. The OED has this use of piracy attested in legal contexts 400 years ago, and that's just the OED. More importantly, it continues to appear in legal contexts today, such as in the majority opinion of Dowling v. United States, which Krensky brought up earlier.
People have called it piracy for over 400 years now. Lawmakers call it piracy. The Supreme Court calls it piracy. Pirates call it piracy. It's piracy.
__________________ Kosmon tonde, ton auton apantōn, oute tis theōn oute anthrōpōn epoiēsen, all’ ēn aei kai estin kai estai pur aeizōon, haptomenon metra kai aposbennumenon metra. . . . Panta gar to pur epelthon krinei kai katalēpsetai.
Everyone should get to win the Interwebs at least once.
I like the cut of your jib, sir, and would like to subscribe to your blog.
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
And also simply wrong. The OED has this use of piracy attested in legal contexts 400 years ago, and that's just the OED. More importantly, it continues to appear in legal contexts today, such as in the majority opinion of Dowling v. United States, which Krensky brought up earlier.
People have called it piracy for over 400 years now. Lawmakers call it piracy. The Supreme Court calls it piracy. Pirates call it piracy. It's piracy.
Except in the statues, where it's infringement. Frankly, it doesn't matter what the OED has a usage; the OED includes all significant usages of words, including ones that are vague, unhelpful, dated, ambiguous, or pejorative. The OED contains, for instance, a number of grandma-unfriendly words that refer to people.
There is no one arguing that word piracy is not used, so there is no point arguing the case that it is. You are correct, it is a real word that real people use.
And also simply wrong. The OED has this use of piracy attested in legal contexts 400 years ago, and that's just the OED. More importantly, it continues to appear in legal contexts today, such as in the majority opinion of Dowling v. United States, which Krensky brought up earlier.
People have called it piracy for over 400 years now. Lawmakers call it piracy. The Supreme Court calls it piracy. Pirates call it piracy. It's piracy.
Just because a thousand people say something, does not mean it is right. I can start calling dogs cats, start a movement, hack your Kindle's and replace every instance of dog with cat, but Fido is still going to bark, he won't meow.
The semantic argument comes down to this: yes, one can always question whether a word should be used in a given context.
You should, however, ask yourself if making that argument will at all be constructive. In all the world of problems, this is one we should be spending our time and mutual good will on? Really?
The semantic argument comes down to this: yes, one can always question whether a word should be used in a given context.
You should, however, ask yourself if making that argument will at all be constructive. In all the world of problems, this is one we should be spending our time and mutual good will on? Really?
Maybe not, but by that logic, we shouldn't be posting here at all, we should be out feeding the hungry, working on a cure for cancer, fighting wildfires, colonizing Mars, and inventing perpetual motion machines. We can't all do that, so we argue over trivialities on the internet.
The semantic argument comes down to this: yes, one can always question whether a word should be used in a given context.
You should, however, ask yourself if making that argument will at all be constructive. In all the world of problems, this is one we should be spending our time and mutual good will on? Really?
IMHO the fact that most such copyright discussions devolve into semantics or name-calling indicates that the issue is heavily emotionally charged, to the point that people are afraid to legitimize positions that they disagree with.
What's sad to me is that there really is an inherent conflict in the issues dealt with by copyright law, and the laws need to genuinely balance the conflict of author's rights vs. the good of society at large.
Oh well, -- N
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