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View Poll Results: Which 4E class do you want to vote off the list?
That is a very logical, sensible, well reasoned, and rational point. This, however, is the internet. I'm therefore going to ignore it utterly and completely.
But you can add boring to teh list by voting RANGER.
I don't penalize classes for pre-4e baggage. A ranger is only a nature boy if you really want him to be, and the only good archer in the game (rogues and artificers work as crossbowmen, but that's not the same).
Still here, still anti-invoker, after that, avenger
My love goes out to the paladin, in 4e the finally didn't suck in some way
Right now the Paladin has way too complex of marking mechanic and given how central to a Defender marking is... that is a form of sucking.
Avengers are the Avenging paladin gone striker (in a mechanically different way than other strikers brings me to love it)
I don't penalize classes for pre-4e baggage. A ranger is only a nature boy if you really want him to be, and the only good archer in the game (rogues and artificers work as crossbowmen, but that's not the same).
With Arcane Power, the Bard is a fine Archery Leader.
Too bad the Warlord can't use a bow.
Cheers, -- N
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Brevity is the soul of wit, so trim your sig or look dumb.
Well, there's also the FR hate, which is why I've been voting for the Swordmage from the beginning... die already, damnit!
So because you don't like the changes they made to the setting you're voting against the non-setting-specific, elegant, versatile, finally-made-a-viable-durable-light-armored-swordsman-that-doesn't-suck just because it was introduced in the book?
That is possible, in which case it will likely switch to the Avenger... I was just going off the numbers. Personally, I like the swordmage - I think it's a pretty solid wizard/fighter hybrid class. I'll probably go after the paladin next myself.
So because you don't like the changes they made to the setting you're voting against the non-setting-specific, elegant, versatile, finally-made-a-viable-durable-light-armored-swordsman-that-doesn't-suck just because it was introduced in the book?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Hey now, the OP did state that you could vote for barbarian if you didn't like it because it has too many "a"s in its name.
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"I mean, being a bard is pretty silly. You walk into dungeons and SING at people. Who could take that seriously." - Elan, Order of the Stick
Heh, I don't know what it does, I just don't like the name.
Hey, it's a valid reason!
/M
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"All editions of D&D are awesome." - Fifth Element (EN World Forums, 2008)
”The tendency to confuse personal taste with objective quality is nearly universal.” - Robin D. Laws – Robin’s Laws of Good Gamemastering (Steve Jackson Games, 2002)
I don't think the invoker hate is anti-divine. I think the invoker just really comes off as the ultimate extension of Power Source + Roll, with no more flavor built in.
This may be part of the overall shallowness of controller design, as controllers don't really have a central unifying mechanic. All defenders mark, all leaders have their healing word variant, all strikers get extra damage (albeit indirectly with the avenger), all controllers...
In general they're flexible, and have some minor boosts (the wizard's implement mastery and spellbook, the druids 2nd form and extra at will, the invokers covenant), but there's nothing to unify them, and thus the tend to be looked at more as a big list of powers. Which puts a much higher burden on their powers to define the class and be cool. And it sounds like for most people the invoker comes up short.
Note that I don't necessarily agree with this, I rather like the class and think the covenants and powers offer some good mechanical hooks. But I think it's the source of the invoker hate.
__________________ "I took a risk... and I ended up in the bag of holding" -the player of Ian Whitefire (deceased)
The Invoker has sadly now left us. This hurts me deeply, you know. Like many religious characters, I found him to be inspirational and yet humble and self-sacrificing. He certainly did not seem to mind that I was able to target as many enemies as he could and still bring them down faster than him. Since he's only been with us for a short time, it is sad to see him go. Even so, we are left with a good mix of newer chaps and older folks, like me, who are still hanging around.
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