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Really like the set of ingredients for round 7. Very nice.
Regarding mine...
Spoiler:
I really hope the judgement goes up soon, because every time I look at my entry I get more dissatisfied!
I probably should have tried to find some more time for editing. I dunno if I could have cut the size down all that much, but there's a few bits and pieces that have minor logical holes as written and I could close them up with a sentence or two. Plus it's more than a bit disorganised in places - the stuff about Girael targeting Merbenna should have been in the description of the performance, for instance, and there were a few other structural issues like this. And a few less parentheses would probably be a worthy goal to aim at as well...
Critical hits is by far my weakest ingredient - Thasmodious did much more with it than me, but I hamstrung myself by using a largely non-combat plot when one of the ingredients was inherently combat-related. We both made the elf-tree-fruit connection. Both of our mayors could have been more mayoral - here's one place i'd like to go back and add another sentence or two. I really like Thas's stellar pathway (particularly in light of the nature of the 4e Far Realm), but I reckon mine was ok. I may be biased, but I preferred my puppet though!
Could go either way I think. Thasmodious's scope and nicely done Far-Realm-corrupted-lost-city vibe vs my attempt at a smaller, immersive plot with memorable NPCs and the best Rat Bastardliness I could come up in the make-a-divination-proof-mystery stakes.
Win or lose, I'm not going to do a mystery-type submission like this if I can avoid it in future (whether it be next round or next competition). Having to detail all the little clues etc in useful detail really bloated the word count ridiculously, and I'd expect to lose based on that alone if Thas hadn't come up with something almost as long.
Last edited by humble minion; 21st October 2009 at 08:30 AM..
Reason: sblocks are cooler than spoiler tags!
...I liked humble minion's entry best. I agree on Nifft's assessment of the use of ingredients, but I thought that humble minion had a stronger plot. And I always appreciate a strong plot in any adventure.
I'm probably just speaking from my own personal preferences, though. I like to tell a story; I like having heroes and villains, conflicts and resolutions. I like things to happen for a reason. HM's entry has some plot issues, but it comes closest to this.
That's not to say that there is anything wrong with Thasmodius's entry. It is a solid adventure and it earned its victory. I guess I'm just not used to an open-ended style of game.
Thanks for the hard work, guys. One more match, and we head into the Semi-Finals!
CleverNickName: I agree with you, especially about the strength of the plot. But here's the thing: the PCs need to be in the plot, it can't just be something that happens around them. I think humble minion had a better plot -- and IMHO it made for a great read! -- but it happened in spite of the PCs, and worse, it happened at the expense of the ingredients.
The ingredients are king. Downplay them and you will not win.
Similarly, the PCs are the stars. If they don't matter to the plot, it's not a plot I can use.
There are excellent parts of humble minion's entry that I do plan on stealing, but I will have to work to adapt them. If the big vampire were important to the PCs, or the fruit were important and its supply being threatened was important ... or something. As plots go, it's a great story -- but not a great adventure.
IMHO, awesome mysteries should make PCs go "OH CRAP!" and change their plans upon revelation.
Anyway, that's my thoughts on the subject. I think both entries had many strengths -- particularly the cleverness of humble minion's interpretation -- but in the end, the one that best used the ingredients won.
Cheers, -- N
__________________
Brevity is the soul of wit, so trim your sig or look dumb.
CleverNickName: I agree with you, especially about the strength of the plot. But here's the thing: the PCs need to be in the plot, it can't just be something that happens around them. I think humble minion had a better plot -- and IMHO it made for a great read! -- but it happened in spite of the PCs, and worse, it happened at the expense of the ingredients.
The ingredients are king. Downplay them and you will not win.
Similarly, the PCs are the stars. If they don't matter to the plot, it's not a plot I can use.
There are excellent parts of humble minion's entry that I do plan on stealing, but I will have to work to adapt them. If the big vampire were important to the PCs, or the fruit were important and its supply being threatened was important ... or something. As plots go, it's a great story -- but not a great adventure.
IMHO, awesome mysteries should make PCs go "OH CRAP!" and change their plans upon revelation.
Anyway, that's my thoughts on the subject. I think both entries had many strengths -- particularly the cleverness of humble minion's interpretation -- but in the end, the one that best used the ingredients won.
Can't really argue with the judgement myself. I mentioned above that Critical Hits was always my weakest ingredient, though i would contend that the 'critics' I referred to were the members of the public who were demanding the bards let Kerreth perform at the Grand Theatre. But I should have made that clearer, but it still doesn't make it a particularly strong ingredient use. Same with the Mace of Blood - it's an undeniably evil weapon, and the fact that Laughingstream wields it was meant to make the PCs more inclined to be suspicious of him. But again, I didn't make that clear in the entry (it all made sense in my head!), and the ingredient is used as a clue rather than a core element of the adventure.
I'm a bit confused by the judgement on the Stellar Pathway - I think Nifft and I might have gotten our wires crossed. The Twilight Tree only exists between dusk and dawn (pretty sure I mentioned that twice...), so it's always going to be night there. Otherwise Girael wouldn't have been able to maintain his facade of non-vampireness for so long, if nothing else!
The linearity and player disinvolvement are very legitimate criticisms though (to a point - nothing stops a PC bard who wants to perform at the Theatre!), during the early stages of the adventure in particular, before the theatre fire. I was a bit concerned about that at the time, but figured that while PCs are INVOLVED in the adventure at this stage, they're not DRIVING it, so there wasn't a lot I could think of to do.
Good win to Thasmodious, who in the final analysis used the ingredients better than I did, which is the whole point of Iron DM! I'll be back, better and more iron-y, next time...
Last edited by humble minion; 22nd October 2009 at 01:52 AM..
I will put them up tomorrow (Thursday) at noon. I'm just on for a couple of minutes right now and won't have access again till late tonight. but noon tomorrow will work fine.
I enjoyed the contest, humble minion, and I really liked your entry, it oozed flavor and I love urban adventures. I've added a few bits to my DM file. On to some thoughts/comments:
Spoiler:
One of those bits is humble's use of the magic fruit. I love the idea of a fruit stand selling fruit 'potions' in an elven district. That just oozes flavor. It really made me want to see this orchard that is so infused with elvish magic that the trees bear such fruit. I imagine that such an orchard would be rife with adventuring possibilities.
I agree with everything Nifft said about my entry. Had I gotten in a rewrite or two, a few of those issues would have been fixed (I hope), especially the rambling, which I was well aware of. I needed to organize it differently. In my head, the adventure started as a bit more straight-forward, plotted adventure, but then I didn't want to ignore the whole city, where much nightmarish fun could be had, and just send them straight to the tree. So halfway through it turned into a site-based adventure, which is why I went with the notes on expanding it, but point well taken there, Nifft.
Regarding Sigil showing up in my story, that's what my brain does to me sometimes. I pictured someone saying "why is there a portal that conveniently leads back to the material plane when the location has been torn from space and time?" And my answer was that Sigil leads everywhere, so it was a handy reason. It was completely superfluous and distracting. The "stellar" part was meant to simply be the star gate like passage (I pictured the star gate jump in 2001 but with lots of tentacles and space worms, which is why it ended in a lavish bedroom).
CleverNickname, as I say above, it was originally a bit more plot-driven in my head and morphed into a more open adventure. But I do have to say I really love, as a DM, just setting the PCs loose in a place and letting them find some plot, they almost always surprise me and I enjoy winging a lot of the actual game time and then thinking through the week until next session on how to tie some of the things the PCs are getting up to to threads of meta-plot bouncing around my notebook.
Like others have said, I'd really recommend those following the competition who are not participating to join the next one. It is loads of fun, the judges criticism is a level of feedback on your strengths and weaknesses that you usually don't get from your players or even if you start a thread and ask for it.
I'm a bit confused by the judgement on the Stellar Pathway - I think Nifft and I might have gotten our wires crossed. The Twilight Tree only exists between dusk and dawn (pretty sure I mentioned that twice...), so it's always going to be night there.
Good win to Thasmodious, who in the final analysis used the ingredients better than I did, which is the whole point of Iron DM! I'll be back, better and more iron-y, next time...
Ah, yes, that's purely my mistake. Sorry for that. (The additional 3 points in your favor wouldn't have tipped the match, but that's no excuse for my misinterpretation.)
Thank you, -- N
__________________
Brevity is the soul of wit, so trim your sig or look dumb.
Ah, yes, that's purely my mistake. Sorry for that. (The additional 3 points in your favor wouldn't have tipped the match, but that's no excuse for my misinterpretation.)
Thank you, -- N
Cheers Nifft, good to know I wasn't going completely mad there...
Thanks to you and to Thasmodious (I'm definitely going to find some way to use that Starry Pathway of yours - really memorable and creepy scene). I enjoyed the match, and look forward to following the rest of the competition.
(Insert the obligatory "Curse you, next time I shall prevail!" etc etc etc, here...)
I will put them up tomorrow (Thursday) at noon. I'm just on for a couple of minutes right now and won't have access again till late tonight. but noon tomorrow will work fine.
-ph
Roger.
Edit: In a side note, humble minion, I read through yours and Thasmodious's adventures (so I would have some idea of what is expected for this) and I agree with Nifft that it was an awesome read. I got so caught up in the story that I forgot I was trying to analyze it from an adventure perspective.
Thasmodious, I really dug your adventure too, especially the image that came to mind when you described Tir Tara. Both the battle in the Stellar Gateway and the final battle with the tree seemed awesome.
Got me looking forward to my own adventure, though I'll admit I'm a touch worried since, aside from one campaign I ran back in the twilight days of 2e, 90% of my games have been 90% ad-libbed. The caliber of your posts at least gives me an idea of what's expected!
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Last edited by Iron Sky; 22nd October 2009 at 08:18 AM..
...that I forgot to attach the jpgs I made (in Adventure Tools) of the two versions of my villain. The first is the most important... it explains the powers that she uses throughout the adventure that I reference by name but don't really explain anywhere else. Daggumit.
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