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View Poll Results: Which 4E class do you want to vote off the list?
*shakes fist at Invisible Stalker* It's OK, the Swordmage forgives you.
It's actually feminism, not puritanism, Jack99, and I'm from and live in California. I like as much as the next guy, but that particular image offends me where, say, cleavage in a bikini doesn't - Not because 'gah cover that stuff up', especially since they're already covered, but because of the 'Got Milk?' slogan being plastered against them. It's a famous slogan for cow milk, and thus it's directly comparing the woman to a cow, presenting her as livestock and a piece of meat to be owned. That's why it bugs me when the same breast-grabbing pose in a tiny bikini wouldn't. (The bikini version of same pose, while still mildly exploitive, would also carry with it a connotation of female sexual power. I'm also annoyed, for the record, by that one gamer shirt that plasters pictures of d20s with the 20 face up across the area of the nipples with the slogan 'Yes, they're natural'. It's unneeded and there's nothing wrong with boob jobs anyway.)
Then again, after we passed Prop 8 last year, California is looking damned puritanical, so maybe you aren't too far off on your assesment of what kind of state I live in.
__________________ New Zealand Outpost of RPG Thought: http://gametime.livejournal.com Playing: Paths of the Damned (WFRP); Return of Red Sun (Exalted 2e) Running: Dawn of Defiance (Star Wars Saga); Demon Queen's Enclave (D&D4e) Planning: Seekers of the Ashen Crown, Last Breaths of Ashenport & Remains of the Empire (D&D4e)
Gah! I meant to hit Ranger (again, DIE ALREADY YOU BORING PoS!) but hit the druid instead. I don't love the druid but I want the pablum-filled training wheels class GONE!
People who are voting against the Swordmage are simply jealous because they have the best at-will in the game with Lightning Lure and they can't understand the tactical awesomeness of it.
Oh, and Jack, if you want to lay down some puritan smack, google "Bible Belt". Sheesh, geographically/demographically challenged Dutch, I tell ya.
I am familiar with it.. Just trying to avoid mentioning a certain word
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nai_Calus
*shakes fist at Invisible Stalker* It's OK, the Swordmage forgives you.
It's actually feminism, not puritanism, Jack99, and I'm from and live in California. I like as much as the next guy, but that particular image offends me where, say, cleavage in a bikini doesn't - Not because 'gah cover that stuff up', especially since they're already covered, but because of the 'Got Milk?' slogan being plastered against them. It's a famous slogan for cow milk, and thus it's directly comparing the woman to a cow, presenting her as livestock and a piece of meat to be owned. That's why it bugs me when the same breast-grabbing pose in a tiny bikini wouldn't. (The bikini version of same pose, while still mildly exploitive, would also carry with it a connotation of female sexual power. I'm also annoyed, for the record, by that one gamer shirt that plasters pictures of d20s with the 20 face up across the area of the nipples with the slogan 'Yes, they're natural'. It's unneeded and there's nothing wrong with boob jobs anyway.)
Then again, after we passed Prop 8 last year, California is looking damned puritanical, so maybe you aren't too far off on your assesment of what kind of state I live in.
So what you are saying is that feminism and puritanism isn't too far apart - tbh that doesn't surprise me much
__________________
355 hours played
Gnoguh, human fighter/cleric (kensei->adamantine soldier)
Carric, elf cleric/ranger (radiant servant->saint)
Torn, tiefling wizard/cleric (divine oracle->sages of ages)
Truxas, human feylock/bard (feytouched->feyliege)
Tagron, human rogue (daggermaster->deadly trickster) 21th level Musings of an Epic Virgin
So what you are saying is that feminism and puritanism isn't too far apart - tbh that doesn't surprise me much
No, not at all, and I'm not sure how you got that outside of deliberately misreading my post.
Being offended by something that directly relates women to livestock is not at all puritanical, especially when coupled with not being offended by more scantily clad women. If your avatar was in, say, a red bikini - Well, that might not pass muster for a family site(Though I'm frankly amazed that the way it is currently does), but I wouldn't find it offensive and I'd enjoy the free cleavage. ;p
It's the women=cows thing. Women have been treated like livestock for thousands of years, and anything that continues that trend is frankly disgusting.
Seriously though, if everyone is saying some combination of rogue, sorcerer, barbarian, wizard, and fighter, maybe we should just save some time and start voting down from those 5?
__________________
"I mean, being a bard is pretty silly. You walk into dungeons and SING at people. Who could take that seriously." - Elan, Order of the Stick
Seriously though, if everyone is saying some combination of rogue, sorcerer, barbarian, wizard, and fighter, maybe we should just save some time and start voting down from those 5?
Nah, you never know what might happen. It's quite possible that there is a vast well of anti-defender hate which has thus far been concentrated on the warden, paladin, and swordmage, but which will suddenly spill over onto the fighter when there are no other defenders left.
Trying to decide between the Avenger and the Swordmage. At least the Barbarian is not running neck and neck with them or I would have to choose between three classes instead of two.
__________________ "The designers of the newest edition built so much reliance on rules right into the game, to make it easier to play. As one of those designers, I occasionally think to myself, 'What have we wrought?' " -Monte Cook
" If the DM has to make a lot of judgment calls, the game is more difficult to learn. However, it's my belief that it's also more satisfying." -Monte Cook
"Don't let rules replace good DMing skills"- Monte Cook
I voted for the Avenger. Had this class been done as a martial class representing lightly armored duelists, swashbucklers, and muskateers, I might have actually liked it. However, as a divine class, I don't like it. Hopefully, it gets shown the door this round and the door hits it from behind on the way out.
__________________ "The designers of the newest edition built so much reliance on rules right into the game, to make it easier to play. As one of those designers, I occasionally think to myself, 'What have we wrought?' " -Monte Cook
" If the DM has to make a lot of judgment calls, the game is more difficult to learn. However, it's my belief that it's also more satisfying." -Monte Cook
"Don't let rules replace good DMing skills"- Monte Cook
No, not at all, and I'm not sure how you got that outside of deliberately misreading my post.
Being offended by something that directly relates women to livestock is not at all puritanical, especially when coupled with not being offended by more scantily clad women. If your avatar was in, say, a red bikini - Well, that might not pass muster for a family site(Though I'm frankly amazed that the way it is currently does), but I wouldn't find it offensive and I'd enjoy the free cleavage. ;p
It's the women=cows thing. Women have been treated like livestock for thousands of years, and anything that continues that trend is frankly disgusting.
LOL I got it the first time around. Point was simply that what I "saw" as puritanism you claimed to be feminism - so maybe the two aren't so far apart (joke, which since you didn't catch it, kinda fell flat ).
And before you think anything, let me just say that I personally teach about women's rights and their position in society and all that is wrong about it - the avatar is not meant suppress or do anything of that sort. It's just meant to be the nicest pair of breasts around. As for flying on this site, I know for a fact that the moderators are well aware of it, so I would expect to have been approached long ago if it was a problem. I mean, it only took WotC 29 minutes, and they are not usually the quickest of the bunch
__________________
355 hours played
Gnoguh, human fighter/cleric (kensei->adamantine soldier)
Carric, elf cleric/ranger (radiant servant->saint)
Torn, tiefling wizard/cleric (divine oracle->sages of ages)
Truxas, human feylock/bard (feytouched->feyliege)
Tagron, human rogue (daggermaster->deadly trickster) 21th level Musings of an Epic Virgin
I really don't like the Druid. I don't really like the swordmage either, but the Druid is just too clunky. AWAY!
I love the Fighter, Barbarian and the new Wizard*.
I am glad the Invoker is already gone, because I hate it with a vengance. I have one in my current campaign, and it's burst/Blast powers that only targets enemies takes away a lot of finesse in movement both from the players and dm.
*as in all the new options, particulary the genasi blaster variant.
Please, folks, let the politically tinged stuff drop like a lead balloon.
And, on a personal note - I would take it as a favor that folks not claim to know the "nicest" form of any part of a human body - as if there was one single perfection, or something. Such statements contribute to body image problems to a great degree, and make a number of women I know rather uncomfortable. So, I expect it makes some women here uncomfortable as well.
It's OK, the Swordmage forgives you. 
). 
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