General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
with yet another of the great folk who've worked at WOTC going, sigh, and various other issues (like the hypocriticial and myopic attitude against pdf sales)...is it just me or do you feel that WOTC is headed down the same path TSR did, until eventual...crash?
Now, depsite what some folk blather about, I feel that TSR did an *amazing* job of most of the AD&D products, absolutely fabulous material was created in the 90s. It was just their bad management that fluffed it up (such as forcing settings ot fit novel lines etc), and a cheapening of some products (see the last Forgotten Realms boxed set they produced, ugh, appalling interior design etc)
Likewise in the WOTC era, I find 4th ed absolutely fantastic, bets ed yet for me
The DDI stuff I is I think, the lynch pin, and achilles ankle, of it all.
D&D *NEEDS* to go digital or it dies, that's hard fact, folks.
If you wanna play by yourself with increasingly fewer gamers as they age, die, move away etc until NO one is left playing, and refuse to accept the validity of the fact the youngsters, our next D&D players, are VERY digital-based, then you have yer dman head in the sand.
D&D must adapt to the new age, hence, digital.
the character and monster builder etc are superb tools, better than anything else I've ever seen to date for our beloved game, so, the products I believe are rock solid
But, the prior fiasco which seemed ot have brought the "Hasborg" out of their DungeonDimension to vent wrath at WOTC HQ boded little good, really, and ESPECIALLY what they did with Dragon and Dungeon, which were outstanding magazines before they got ripped out of Paizo's hands.
Creative, talented folk are rare and precious....losing them is damn stupid. It's cutting off yer nose to spite your face, to coin a well-used phrase.
I got the impression from the Rouse's farewell that he was going voluntary and onto bigger and brighter things.
As for WoTC, I belive they have a pretty good and solid vision of where they want to go and I have no real quibble with the basic strategy. I agree that digital is the way to go but I do realise that initially they got it horribly wrong.
However, getting software development horribly wrong is nothing new, software companies do it often enough and companies that have no prior experience in software projects do it very often.
The interesting is that WoTC have not retreated from their vision but they have learned from their mistakes.
They are still working toward their grand vision (or some closely related version thereof) but they are doing it in small steps and learning from each iteration.
The sky fell over a year ago. Now we're all drowning in sky pieces.
Also, the world is going to end in 2012, but humanity will survive because the government has made a deal with the gray aliens (who are causing global warming, BTW) to transport us all to Earth 2, where we'll all live under a socialist regime ruled by atheist lizard people.
Get your catastrophes straight, for Pete's sake!
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The sky fell over a year ago. Now we're all drowning in sky pieces.
Also, the world is going to end in 2012, but humanity will survive because the government has made a deal with the gray aliens (who are causing global warming, BTW) to transport us all to Earth 2, where we'll all live under a socialist regime ruled by atheist lizard people.
Get your catastrophes straight, for Pete's sake!
Dude.
Earth 2 is the Justice Society one. Get yer Multiverse straight!
…is it just me or do you feel that WOTC is headed down the same path TSR did…
For me, something like that has already happened. With TSR, I found myself not being in step with the style/focus/direction of the products in the 2e period (really, that started in the late 1e period, but I soldiered on for a while). Eventually, I quit buying the new D&D stuff, ran other games and editions, and stopped caring about what TSR was doing. When WotC released 3.0, I got interested and started buying (new) D&D stuff, again, and that held true up until shortly after 3.5, when I started finding myself out of step, once more. Took a look at 4e, but it was an even greater departure from my kind of D&D, so again, I'm back to "not buying the new D&D stuff, running other games and editions, and not paying attention to what WotC is doing."
Obviously, that's just my personal take on the situation, and it says nothing about the overall success of 4e or of WotC as a business.
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WOTC isn't in a situation even close to TSR in the later days. Although very important to gamers, D&D is just one small piece of the business.
It is possible that the pen and paper rpg known as D&D will one day cease to be supported and the D&D brand represented by card games, movies, novels, or television. Either way, WOTC will probably be OK.
D&D, the game was the backbone of TSR and when it started to fail, so did the company. For WOTC, D&D is a marketable IP that can be morphed into whatever form will generate the best, and most sustainable revenue.
D&D, the game was the backbone of TSR and when it started to fail, so did the company. For WOTC, D&D is a marketable IP that can be morphed into whatever form will generate the best, and most sustainable revenue.
If D&D as a PnP game fails, then I want the next best thing...
Dungeons & Dragons breakfast cereal, with marshmallow beholders, mimics, and dragons.
WotC are working hard on avoiding to end up like TSR - this is the real reason why they are transitioning to a digital state. That way they need no stinking printers
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Only if Slavicek's next column says "there's a problem with the printer."
ftw.
diaglo "i spit coffee on my monitor" Ooi
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you happen to say that 4E reminds you of the reasons you decided against a career as a special-Ed teacher--noted rpg author Darrin Drader
I do think that the Pen n Paper market base is subject to aging. It is progressively harder to attract the younger customers who expect the ease of use computerised versions offer and often are not so excited about the more directly personal aspect of Pen n Paper games. The fact that our community is very opinionated about what we like and don't like and so tend to splinter into subgroups has probably already fractured the market extensively (forget the recent edition wars, every edition change in any RPG I know has created splinter groups who stick to former editions for a variety of reasons). An ever diminishing, ever fracturing market will eventually stop being a worthwhile market and many companies will not really be sustainable. Honesly I think that a virtual game table that can provide ease of use would be one of the best ways for D&D to improve their market base. But honestly even though it was promised I do not see it happening any time soon.
Well, because speaking as a M:tG player whose been with the game since Legends era, it's because M:tG is slowly collapsing as well. It has fewer and fewer American players and especially casual ones, and it is milking them harder and harder to sustain its cash flow. I think International sales are really the only thing keeping it going (well, at this level, it could survive indefinately probably on a slower product cycle).
Additionally, I think that M:tG is reaching its practical design limit, and that the design of sets and cards will get more and more strained from here on out with fewer and fewer novel ideas that aren't clunky. It's been a good run for the game, but you can't go on churning out 1000 new cards per year and not reach a point of redundancy.
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You do realize it is still one of the most successful product lines (and only exceeded by Pokemon and Yugi-Oh among CCGs)
Because most of us (not all, generalization) are role players who look to the original game as the barometer. It's childish, since M:tG is technically a much stronger line a better barometer for WotC.
I think the real issue is whether D&D will survive, not WotC. As for me, M:tG = much suck - I hate CCGs. But, then I'm an old fat beard, so, it's understandable.
"I may be unconscious, but at least I still look good!" - - Me (at the Halfling Musketeers game GenCon '06)
On one hand, taking away their weapons is a dead giveaway that they will need them. On the other hand, by the time conflict starts the players will already have opened the rulebooks and found the parts that deal with bare-handed combat, performing disarm moves, and using improvised weapons. Players may blunder through dialog with shocking ineptitude, forget the name of the country they are in, or get confused about which side they are on, but once it comes time to roll for initiative they all turn into Sun Tzu. - Shamus Young DM of the Rings
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