General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
View Poll Results: Which class do you want to vote off the list?
Avenger
83
41.09%
Barbarian
30
14.85%
Fighter
10
4.95%
Ranger
50
24.75%
Rogue
10
4.95%
Sorcerer
18
8.91%
Wizard
22
10.89%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 202. This poll is closed
Closest decision: Artificer vs Warlord : 2 votes (round 1)
Most decisive: Shaman vs Warlock : 27 votes (round 3)
The survivor: (Tie) Avenger, Swordmage, Warlock, Warlock : Two rounds as the runner up
Run with most votes : tie 4 and 5, 266 votes
Voting off the Barbarian. While the class seems like it would be a fun one to play (I'd play one) from a mechanical perspective, still not sold on the blatantly magical elements involved with some of its powers.
__________________ Oni
"Each man, one way.
Each horse, one stance.
Each church, one buddha.
Each master to his own technique."
I voted for Ranger this time, as I think he's got a better chance of going than the rogue, but they're both on my list for the same reason. I hate the weapon restrictions on powers. They mess up any concept that doesn't strictly adhere to the base stereotype for the class.
The rogue restrictions are tighter. . . but the ranger has the added bonus of being proficient with a bunch of weapons that he should never touch. So he goes for now.
__________________
SOUL: Secret Organization for Underground Levity
You can't stop the laughter!
THE HIVE: One Mind, No Purpose. Public Member of the Secret Fraternal Order of the Hive.
These are mostly classes I really like. Of course, a lot of classes I like got voted off so far, but at this point all the ones I particularly do not like are gone.
So I'm going Sorcerer. Some of the builds are fun, but others are a bit too "point and click" for me. In spite of what people are saying about the archer ranger, I think its pretty obvious that the Sorcerer is the simplest and most boring striker.
4E has rituals, use them, they're magic; Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then click; You can use “Earth” as a D&D setting; Origins of The Rouse; (look for it) The Rouse responds; (look for it) One can appreciate both old and new D&D.
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
I didn't vote for the Avenger. But I had, it would be because
1. Its core ability is its oath, which is compatible only with melee attacks, and so many of its attacks are ranged without also being awesome enough to justify not getting to role twice.
2. It frequently attempts to dissuade enemies from performing certain actions, and does so so effectively that all of the encounter, daily, and utility powers that help dissuade enemies even more are rendered redundant.
3. Many of its powers grant mobility, but it often has enough mobility that even more is unnecessary.
I didn't vote for the Avenger. But I had, it would be because
1. Its core ability is its oath, which is compatible only with melee attacks, and so many of its attacks are ranged without also being awesome enough to justify not getting to role twice.
2. It frequently attempts to dissuade enemies from performing certain actions, and does so so effectively that all of the encounter, daily, and utility powers that help dissuade enemies even more are rendered redundant.
3. Many of its powers grant mobility, but it often has enough mobility that even more is unnecessary.
Yeah, I'd agree that the avenger has some issues. Ironically, it seems to me like an avenger would often want off discipline powers. If you're a pursuit avenger, taking pursuit powers is just too much. You don't need to punish them twice for moving away; they're not going to do it too often. They're better off taking retribution powers to damage attackers. Then you'll usually get at least one bonus, since they're in trouble if they book it, and also in trouble if they counter attack or get friends to help bail them out.
__________________ "I'd like to shake the hand of the genius who invented that - just the hand, after it's been cut off from the now screaming man."
Oh and looks the the avenger is done olding off the onslaught
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
1. Its core ability is its oath, which is compatible only with melee attacks, and so many of its attacks are ranged without also being awesome enough to justify not getting to role twice.
"so many of its attacks".. huh?
I've built a number of avengers and barely noticed it had any ranged powers at all.... (looks like less than 10 percent with some levels not having any ranged powers at all.)
Looks like the range powers are there so you end up less than totally useless if you cant reach the enemy (but then there is always the paragon path that gives you flight at level 16).
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
"so many of its attacks".. huh?
I've built a number of avengers and barely noticed it had any ranged powers at all.... (looks like less than 10 percent with some levels not having any ranged powers at all.)
Looks like the range powers are there so you end up less than totally useless if you cant reach the enemy (but then there is always the paragon path that gives you flight at level 16).
There's a fair number of them. They're easily avoided because there are even more melee attacks, but there's a fair number of them. They're conveniently incompatible with every class ability the Avenger has.
It would be nice to say that they exist to help for when you can't reach the enemy, but... you're an Avenger. Unless your enemy flies, mobility really shouldn't be a problem. And the difference between a power that's compatible with your oath and your bond, and a power that's incompatible with both, is enormous.
There really should have been a built in bonus for avenger ranged attacks to make up for that.
There's a fair number of them. They're easily avoided because there are even more melee attacks, but there's a fair number of them. They're conveniently incompatible with every class ability the Avenger has.
It would be nice to say that they exist to help for when you can't reach the enemy, but... you're an Avenger. Unless your enemy flies
usually true which is why its very likely an Avenger gets built without much range powers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadfan
mobility really shouldn't be a problem. And the difference between a power that's compatible with your oath and your bond, and a power that's incompatible with both, is enormous.
There really should have been a built in bonus for avenger ranged attacks to make up for that.
Can't say I dont agree with you .... on that. Just noticed "Focused Fury" myself... it is a weapon attack versatile of range which if the target is your OE... you are able to push an adjacent non-oath target 2 squares. (help you get isolation perhaps). I am picture one hand hurling one guy back and the other smashing your oath....or at range spinning your bola around fending back one guy and firing the stone at another.
This would be better if the enemy... movement away was prior to resolving the hit ;-)
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
- Lazarus Long via Robert Heinlein.
Last edited by Garthanos; 15th October 2009 at 03:48 PM..
4E has rituals, use them, they're magic;
Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then 
You can use “Earth” as a D&D 
The Rouse 
One can appreciate both old and new D&D.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
