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I know everyone has a problem player every once in a while, so I'm venting as much as soliciting advice on the situation. Please advise me...
I've got a player that really gets on my nerves. They refuse to read the rules on the basis that the character builder on DDI prints out cards with all their powers and associated text. During the game, they sit there and doodle or work on other things until their turn comes up, then deliberate for minutes about what to do. I've asked this player to stay more involved in the game and pay attention when their turn isn't up, and after five months, there's been no change in the behavior.
In my campaign, I have a fairly strict, "you don't play, you don't gain XP" policy. I don't want casual players breezing in and out if they feel like playing this week or not, and it's the only policy I've ever found that effectively addresses the issue. Everyone misses a session or two here and there so it evens out, and most of my players feel like it's been a good policy over time. This player has been playing their character at second level for months while everyone else steadily gained levels, ignorant of their level gap until the party hit fifth level. The player was surprised that DDI's character builder didn't track this for them (although I still don't understand why they would think that a digital application would automatically update based on my campaign). This morning, the player flat-out asked me to bump their experience total to that of our highest-xp party member on the basis of their ignorance, citing the DMG's guidelines about keeping players on an even footing.
In short, the player is disruptive and has made it clear that they don't want to be bothered by reading their character sheet or the rules. This is just their game-related irkiness...
On a personal level, this player wanted to dicuss political issues until the group made it clear that we don't all share their opinion--at that point, the player got snotty and insisted that we can't discuss politics or religion when they are present.
The player is openly bisexual (which no one really cares about in and of itself), the problem is that the player openly discusses what they'd like to do with same-sex players when those players are not present. That's made everyone uncomfortable, but no one wants to say anything about it because they don't want to violate political correctness. I'm the only one who stood up to this behavior--when the player openly discussed wanting to do something with me and my girlfriend together, I told them it wasn't cool and almost kicked them out on the spot. I kinda wish that I had now...
This player has managed to piss off everyone at the table pretty severely. Every session, this player pushes a button or rubs someone the wrong way and it affects their enjoyment of the game. The other players have petitioned me to kick them out for months now, and I've basically either put it off with hopes of them improving, or viewed it as personality conflicts between players with abrasive personalities and thin skins.
Nothing has changed, and I'm basically at the point where I'm ready to get rid of this player rather than risk losing the entire group. Is that what I should do? Should I give a stern chat a chance? Try some other corrective behavior?
If it's five months, you've waited entirely too long. One bad session can be a bad day. At two bad sessions, you have a talk with the player. At a month of bad sessions, they should be out of the game. (Two months at most, if you're really into being a martyr.) People are there to have fun. If someone is hurting that fun, they don't belong.
So, my primary suggestion is to tell the player that it's not working out and they are out of the game. Don't get confrontational. Don't let them talk their way back in. Just stand your ground.
For the future, I can offer a bit of advice on some of the issues.
If someone refused to learn the rules, you have to question their interest in the game. If they learn the rules for their own character and don't want to learn the rest, that's fine as they know what they need in order to play. If they won't learn the rules for their character, they're going to waste everyone's time over and over. If you allow them to keep playing with you telling them the rule every single time, you're enabling this behavior. If you stop, they will either have to learn or will have to leave the game.
On the subject of not paying attention, I have a five second rule at my table. If you can't answer what you're going to do on your turn in under five seconds, you get skipped. I only waive it when something big or unexpected has just happened, like reinforcements just arrived or the target the PC was working on just died a few seconds ago. Even then, I don't give more than a minute or so, because battle is supposed to be fast paced.
On the politics and beliefs, I personally wouldn't hang around with someone who said that no one can discuss their beliefs if they don't agree with this person. On the sex talk, I wouldn't tolerate this from one of my friends and I only game with friends. (Both of which boil down to you're probably better off without this person.)
We all go through bad gamers. There are tons of horror stories out there. It's how we learn to deal with the next bad gamer. Sometimes, you can talk to them. Many times, however, you just have to put your foot down when you realize that what they want from the group is not what the group wants.
Good luck.
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Unless there's some risk of damaging a friendship, I say let the person go. Give ttem the reasons why and be done with it.
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If you are at the point where months have passed i would say its time for the boot.
Im also surprised you guys have let this player run his mouth on and on simply because he is bisexual... I mean sexual preferences are cool and all but they aint an excuse to act like an ass and expect people to just endure it, I know I wouldn't.
Life is too short for bad gaming. This guy is raining on your free time. He is not respecting anyone else's free time either. Assuming everything you have said here is true, he gets the toss.
I'd suggest doing it in private away from the group. Just talk to him one on one and explain that things are not working out, that his playstyle and yours are not meshing and you would prefer it if he did not come to the game anymore.
This can be really awkward and difficult to do. Booting a player is hard. But, it really does have to be done if he's actually making gaming not fun for you and the rest of the group.
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Not being willing to discuss someone else's sexual fantasies isn't a political correctness issue.
Kick him out. Ideally you would have jumped on the sex comments immediately and told him they weren't acceptable, and he'd either have stopped doing it, or continued and you'd have kicked him out. At this point it looks like its too late for that sort of intervention, which typically works best when its immediate, clear, and firm, rather than delayed and only directed towards a small portion of the overall problem. But oh well, too late now. Kick him out and replace him.
This dude sounds like a jerk and is using political correctness as some kind of crutch or something. I'd say kick him out of your gaming group and circle of friends, because he just sounds like a real loser!
He's messing up the atmosphere for everyone else. I
You sound reluctant, why?
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I would say pull the player aside and talk to her/him (you did not specify which). Invite them out for coffee or some other such public place, break the ice for a few minutes, then tell her/him your expectations of the players at your table. Then ask them if they understand what you just said. If they say yes, then alert them that if they cannot live up to those expectations, that they will be voted off the island. You can include things like learning the rules (which they may already know if thy are quoting the DMG to you), not sexually harassing your players(or you), and respecting the beliefs of other on those ever so sensitive topics. You could also institute the 10 second rule. I use it for the games I run here in town at the youth shelter. I have chess clock, and I just start it when someone appears to be faltering on their turn. When 10 or so seconds pass I alert them that they are going to be skipped if they dont act immediately. They will huff nad puff and miss a few turns, but I have that over time they start paying attention so they can act. Another tactic I use is when I announce the start of Player A's turn I also announce that Player b will be acting next so they can start thinking about what they want to do.
Out of curiosity, is the player playing at level 2 because she forgot to add the exp points to her sheet, or because she missed that many sessions? If you just don't like the player (meaning this is not someone you would not want to do something that wasn't gaming with) then maybe you should ask them to quit you. But if you like the person as a person and thy just arent gaming in a way you like, maybe you should be a little more engaging and assertive in your expectations. I have found that in my own experience, that often folks act a certain way because that is the norm for them, if thats not cool with your group, you should at least let them know, before getting to banhammer.
I have a couple of gaming buddies I have had for years now, that when I first started gaming with them I did not like their style at ALL. I eventually spoke to them and we came to a common ground, and I have more friends as a result (some of them are my dearest friends in fact). I have also put some gaming agony from character diffeerences out its misery by talking it out and deciding to go my seperate way afterwards.
But it all starts with taking the player out of the game area, and having a real discussion with them (I reccomend you do it 1 on 1, inless the person is serial murderer creepy, as folks tend to react differently when "confronted" in front of a group as they do when "approached" in a more private way).
But all of this is moot if you just hate the person and want them out. If thats the case, then ask yourself how they got into your group in the first place, and add that action to that list of things never to do again, kick them out and move on.
D&D is a game and the objective of the game is to have fun. You need to eliminate elements that aren't fun. If a player isn't fun, they don't need to play. Just remember it's a game, it's not a job or a business, it's not government. Just tell them, "hey, you don't really seem like you are into the game or anything, you haven't shown up all the time, maybe you just shouldn't play anymore. It's cool that you like hanging out, but we are kind of focused on the game and stuff."
If you are friends with this person, you'll just hang out with them at other times. If you aren't friends with them... why are they playing in your group anyways?
when the player openly discussed wanting to do something with me and my girlfriend together
Take him up on the offer...he might become a better player afterwords.
Man, I'm surprised you didn't break his face for saying something like that. I couldn't imagine what I'd do if a player made a comment like that about my wife (who is a player). Luckily everyone I have gamed with has at least been respectful.
I can't believe after having him be a problem player and then follow it up with a sexual comment about you & your gf that you actually let it slide. If you had just kicked him out right then and there, then you wouldn't be dealing with this today. That would have been a very easy excuse and a valid reason to boot him.
I've always been on the side that says, "boot him out of the group" because I've dealt with so much BS from players that I have come to realize nothing works except booting them. People like to suggest sitting down and talking with them, but in my experience, that has failed 100% of the time. A player with a bad trait isn't going to change even if they try...at least I've never seen it happen.
Get rid of him and find someone new. You will not regret it! Problem players make DMing D&D a living hell, but it is so great when you can finally DM a group of cool players!
Well, if you forced the players to play with this guy for months after they wanted to boot him, you should let them kill his character and take his stuff.
If you REALLY hate him, have THAT be his last session with your group!
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If everyone else in the group doesn't want to game with this person, I'd say it's time to invite him-or-her to leave. If it's that bad, it seems like a no-brainer.
BTW, it seems like the OP went out of the way to avoid saying "him" or "her"; why?
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Last edited by coyote6; 23rd October 2009 at 07:46 PM..
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