WotC Layoffs - Rob Heinsoo, Logan Bonner, and Chris Sims

[Umbran]

Originally Posted by Drkfathr1

I really couldn't imagine working for WoTC knowing that layoffs were coming every Christmas.

As I understand it, most places that have a strongly scheduled budget also have yearly layoffs as that budget year closes. That they come before Christmas is not really all that much worse than coming any other time of year.

The way the economy is running, where on average it takes six months or more to get a new position, they could have been laid off back in September and still not have something new by X-mas. So, really, the exact timing isn't as bad as one might imagine.

[Matt James]

Originally Posted by Drkfathr1

I really couldn't imagine working for WoTC knowing that layoffs were coming every Christmas.

As others have said, this just gives some of us even more reason to no longer support WotC.

We're not sure this didn't come from Hasbro.

[messy]

Originally Posted by Haffrung Helleyes

If you want to do something for these people, support Paizo -- they seem to hire quite a few victims of the annual WoTC layoffs.

Ken

that's good. paizo seems to be on the right track.

did they hire david noonan after he was laid off last year? whatever happened to dave? he deserves to have a job with a gaming company...

messy

[Drammattex]

Raising a glass to everyone's glorious achievements while at WotC. All of you have touched my life and my many, many games with your talent.

And one extra toast to Rob for his work on the D&D Miniatures game. You're a heck of a guy, a hell of a designer, and I loved interviewing you at Gen Con. To you, sir!

[Drkfathr1]

Originally Posted by Matt James

We're not sure this didn't come from Hasbro.

True. Although we have been told time and time again that Hasbro doesn't exercise that level of involvement in WoTC's management.

[Plane Sailing]

Stinky news for the guys laid off. Others have already said it, but I will too. Sucky of a company to lay people off at Christmas. Sounds like the people who could watch 'Scrooge' and not get it at all.

:-(

[Turtlejay]

Originally Posted by Haffrung Helleyes

If you want to do something for these people, support Paizo -- they seem to hire quite a few victims of the annual WoTC layoffs.

Ken

Wait, what? That sounds backwards to me. If your favorite drinking hole has to let one of their folks go, it is because money is tight. I'd imagine this applies to business on a larger scale, only more cutthroat. I'd say if you want your favorite designers to have jobs, buy stuff with their names on the cover, not stuff from their competition. Am I crazy?

Jay

[Matt James]

Originally Posted by Turtlejay

Wait, what? That sounds backwards to me. If your favorite drinking hole has to let one of their folks go, it is because money is tight. I'd imagine this applies to business on a larger scale, only more cutthroat. I'd say if you want your favorite designers to have jobs, buy stuff with their names on the cover, not stuff from their competition. Am I crazy?

Jay

I'm with your line of thinking. I don't for a minute think WotC/Hasbro did this out of random malice.

[Frylock]

Originally Posted by Drkfathr1

As others have said, this just gives some of us even more reason to no longer support WotC.

That would probably be short-sighted. I'm sure they don't enjoy laying off employees. When they (or almost anyone) do, it's usually out of necessity because they aren't getting enough "support" from their fan base for a wide variety of reasons. Using that as the *motivation* to pull your support is counter-productive. In any case, forming an opinion one way or the other without the facts is always reckless.

EDIT: I was ninja'd several times before I posted this reply, which is good. I'm glad many people do have a grip on the realities of industry. I will also add that whether this came from WotC or Hasbro is irrelevant. I'd also be shaking in my shoes if I were on the WotC payroll. Personally, I wouldn't be concerned with who was going to fire me, but rather that I was going to be fired at all. That seems to be a regular thing there.

[Banshee16]

Originally Posted by ggroy

It looks like the remaining overworked WotC full-time D&D designers left are Mike Mearls, James Wyatt, Rich Baker, Bruce Cordell working on the following 4E titles in 2010:

Mike Mearls - Psionic Power, Demonomicon, Monster Manual 3, PH Races: Tieflings, Hammerfast, Player's Handbook 3

Bruce Cordell - Dark Sun Creature Catalog

James Wyatt - D&D Player's Strategy Guide, PH Races: Dragonborn

Rich Baker - Dark Sun Campaign Guide, Dark Sun Creature Catalog, Marauders of the Dune Sea, Martial Power 2

Eek, they're going to be busy boys...

Still sucks for those now looking for jobs right before Christmas.

Banshee

[Morrus]

Another name to add to the list (from the same source): Stephen Radney-McFarland.

[wedgeski]

Originally Posted by messy

did they hire david noonan after he was laid off last year? whatever happened to dave? he deserves to have a job with a gaming company...

He's working on Aion.

[Banshee16]

Originally Posted by Turtlejay

Wait, what? That sounds backwards to me. If your favorite drinking hole has to let one of their folks go, it is because money is tight. I'd imagine this applies to business on a larger scale, only more cutthroat. I'd say if you want your favorite designers to have jobs, buy stuff with their names on the cover, not stuff from their competition. Am I crazy?

Jay

There's different ways to look at it. Guess it depends on how you like the company doing the layoffs. Sometimes getting rid of staff who're popular with customers will have unintended effects.....like losing customers.

At the point that these guys have been laid off, buying books with their names on them from WotC does nothing to help them with WotC....they've already been laid off at that point. And if you like what that writer did, why would you ever support the company who got rid of them? That's kind of a backward way to look at it, isn't it?

I know when I was laid off, the company lost customers who liked me, and were disappointed I was in the layoff group. I can't fault them for leaving my former employer, and the display of loyalty can be reassuring when you've just had your feet knocked out from under you.

These guys have accomplished enough for WotC, in terms of what they've written, that I do think they'll be able to either find positions, or freelance jobs. The statement to support Paizo is (I think) simply recognition that Paizo tends to hire people WotC has gotten rid of, so, if you happen to like Paizo, buy their products, because they keep hiring people you used to like who were at WotC. Buying Paizo book X won't necessarily help ex-WotC employee Y who was just laid off.....but if Paizo is doing well, and they keep hiring WotC people as WotC gets rid of them, well, when they are ready to fill their next position, your favourite writer might have a better than average chance of getting a position. I'm pretty sure that was the rationale behind the suggestion.

Banshee

[kenmarable]

Originally Posted by Kzach

Everyone is assuming this is some nasty corporate stratagem cooked up at the last minute to punish the innocent and all that but have we ever actually heard the real story behind these lay-offs?

I mean, as far as I'm aware, we know nothing about them. For all we know, it could've been simply their end of contract and something they have known was coming ever since they signed the contract. They could be getting redundancy pay-offs and freelance contracts.

All I'm saying is that we don't really know anything other than they're no longer working as WotC employees.

Of course we don't know the full details in this instance, but in the annual layoffs pretty much since 3e came out 9 years ago, those who have spoken have said it was sudden and unexpected like layoffs tend to be everywhere.

I'm not sure if he was in the Christmas layoffs or not, but the only case of it not being a surprise that I have heard was Sean Reynolds who was planning on quitting since he was moving and they told him "Uh... how about a layoff instead? You'll get some severance."

Anyone have time to do some digging and see if this is annual? I know it sure feels like it's been every single year since 2000, but my Google Fu is failing me in verifying which years might have been layoff free.

[fireinthedust]

I have enjoyed the products of each of these designers. 4e is a great product that has and continues to have a firm place at my gaming table. Poeple who've never gamed outside of 2e or even just Fable are doing their characters on my laptop CB and moving minis around with the best of them. It's taken a lot of weight off my shoulders as GM, and brought my group together into a tightly knit collective.

Please keep writing for 4e!

Please take some time to come to Toronto and run some games for me and my friends!

I know I'll be using my gift certificates this year, and keeping an eye out for books you lot have written. ...I'd likely have picked them up anyway, but now I'll make a point of it.

For sure it'd be good to read blogs by you folks, on gaming and other topics like game design, etc.