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I can/have lost weight before, from about 400 lbs down to 300lbs~, on the Atkins diet. That worked for me because of my eating style, likes, and physiology. I thrive on high-protein, low carbohydrate diets. It's actually good for my cholesterol and whatnot.
I'm also about 6'8" tall. So I'm huge and eat meat. Scary.
At any rate, I was visiting my parents and taking a nap in my old room, where the computer is. My dad happened to be in the room and observed my apnea behavior. I had constant apnea episodes of varying types, but it amounted to me not getting ANY good sleep during a night.
We didn't notice it, really, because I've had it for so long. To keep up a high-stress college lifestyle, I just became used to consuming MASSIVE amounts of caffeine to stay functional. I'd have to have about 10 cups of coffee before noon just to be marginally human.
At any rate, I had the sleep study done. The nurse said I was "ate up with apnea" ... the first night I slept a total of five hours ... felt like a million dollars. That first night it's unbelievable. I used to sleep 10 hours on a weekend and wake up just as tired as when I went to bed. Five hours, up before sunrise, and I was a happy ogre.
So now I've got my C-Flex machine. If your insurance covers it, spring for the Flex machine. Basically it's the newer technology. It reads the increased pressure when you breathe out, and lowers its own pressure, then raises it when you breathe in. It makes it MUCH easier to breathe. After a week, I couldn't sleep without it. I don't like to spend a night without my "nose" because I might as well not be sleeping at all.
ALTHOUGH I've noticed my "sleeping habits" have improved. When I have to spend a night without the nose, I have fewer apnea episodes. I used to sleep with my mouth open and snored to wake the dead. My fiance couldn't sleep in the same room with me. After having to learn to sleep with my mouth closed, I tend to sleep that way even without the Flex machine.
At any rate, getting your apnea treated makes life so much easier. I felt a little odd, at first, because I'm only 23 and I've got this thing I have to hook up to my face every night like I'm an invalid. You get used to it, though.
As far as losing weight, here's a couple of things that have worked for me:
1) Stop drinking pop (or lattes, etc.). I have dermatitis (extremely, extremely dry skin) and was told to cut caffine out of my diet. I did. Let me tell you, it felt _weird_ for the first while, maybe even a couple of years -- but mostly 'cause I kept slipping. Now, I almost can't stomach pop. About one can of Coke during the weekly game is all I can handle.
Replace it with water. Get a filter/treatment system/purifier if you need to. Water is _really_ good for you. It's more than just "emprty liquid".
2) Graze. When you're hungry, eat. When you aren't, don't. It's a "Well, duh!" statement, but most people don't follow it. IMHO, that's because the idea of three squares is too ingrained which means that most people just eat more.
Don't worry about "spoiling your dinner". If you need a snack at 3:00, then have one. Understand that your dinner will be impacted and go with it. You'll eventually figure out what works for you.
Tonight I blew it and went to a barbeque, but yesterday would be pretty typical for me: A couple pieces of French Toast for breakfast, a sandwich at 11:00, an apple at 2:30, and a half a chicken breast (chicken Parmesian, yum) and corn at 6:30.
3) Listen to your body. I know that I'm _rarely_ just "hungry". I'm usually hungry _for_ something. Sometimes I have a real craving for protein, so I have an egg or a slice of lunch meat, or some beans. Sometimes, it's dairy, so I have some cheese (we always have at least one block of sharp cheddar in the house). Sometimes it's fruit. Anyway, it will take a while for you to learn what your body is saying, but it pays off. Big time.
4) Understand that junk food is junk. Use your discipline at purchase time. There is a whole aisle in the grocery store that is off limits, maybe two, depending on the store. No chips, no pop, no cookies. Don't even keep them in the house.
Yeah, it's a pain in the butt and uncomfortable, but this is probably the best thing you can do out of all the above advice. _Think_ about what you're sticking in your mouth and what it's doing to your body. Believe it or not, it becomes reflexive. Also, there comes a point where you actually _prefer_ an apple to Chips Ahoy.
I'm not going to lie and say that you can't tempt me. Milk and cookies (especially my wife's special homemade chocolate chip) or ice cream will sucker me in almost every time. And once I slip hard, I'll usually pack on a few pounds before I catch myself. Still, having developed the awareness gets me back on track reasonably quick.
A couple of "cheats" that I've found are a) if you're a "chips" person ;like my wife, try pretzels (the regular bite-size variety) with spicy brown mustard for a dip. A little high in sodium, but generally harmless. b) If you're a "sweets" person, fruit is your friend. Change up regularly (pears, apples, kiwi are all favorites) and a standby for a real sweet tooth is apple slices with caramel dip (the grocery store here actually has light caramel dip beside the apples).
Random information: orange juice and bananas are the two most commonly consumed fruit servings. They are also two of the sweetest (as in most sugar) fruit servings available. I'm not saying avoid them (I need my morning OJ like some people need coffee). Just don't rely on them.
Y'know, I was going to post my advice, based on losing 65+ pounds in the last 8 months, but pretty much everything I would say has been said here already.
My wife is also losing weight with me, and she has sleep apnea. I notice it, and it was worst at her top weight, and has dropped off somewhat with her weight loss. I also note that if her breathing is impeaded in any way, say with hayfever, it gets much worse as well.
Anyway, eat healthy food, lowish on the carbs, high on the veggies, small portions often. That'll do the trick. I'm very wary of no-carb diets like Adkins, as I feel that leaving out carbs entirely can't be good long term, but if it works short term, I can't fault it too much. Just remember, you also have to keep the weight off, and anecdotal evidence that I've heard is that Adkins has a poor record in that respect. Note: I have not actually done research, it's just something someone told me.
I'm actually following a modified version of the 6 Week Body Makeover, and it's a pretty good plan. I've changed some details, but it's got solid science behind most of it. I understand both Body for Life and The Zone are similar.
--Seule
__________________ "I'll remember it my way, and you all remember it the right way."
I ate whatever I wanted, but tried to not go overboard.
I went to the gym 5-6 times a week and either rode the stationary bike, treadmil, or the "eliptical" crosstrainer for cardio exercise.
I started out at about 6 minutes of riding (all I could do at the time) and had a goal of adding at least one minute per day to my time. Eventually I was going for not less than 45 minutes, and some days as long as 90 minutes. I would track my heart rate. Maximum heart rate is 220 minus your age. You want to warm up for 5-10 minutes, then exercise with your heart rate in the "Aerobic zone" of 70-85% of your maximum heart rate. That is the zone where you will lose the most weight.
I also started VERY slowly lifting weights. I would go buy a "Muscle & Fitness" or "Men's Health" magazine and try the workout routines in there. I'd read the mag while I was on the bike.
I cannot even begin to tell you the difference I felt once I lost about 25 lbs. I never realised that there was a sort of "fog" over my brain that made it near impossible to read or concentrate. I had terrible mood swings and depression. No energy. Would fall asleep driving. Bad sleep apnea.
When the sleep apnea went away (about 25 - 30 lbs into my weight loss) I felt INCREDIBLE. I never knew what I was missing.
I kept it off for about two years, but I got lazy and had my routine interrupted working out of town alot, and gained some back. I contemplated Adkins diet. I read the book and really liked what I learned from it. But... psychologically, I don know if I could stick to that diet for long. Especially when I know I can get where i want to be thru consistent exercise and eat whatever I want.
Good luck. Need any advise or specifics on things I did, Email me at ThomasBJJ@Hotmail.com
Originally posted by HeapThaumaturgist
I'm also about 6'8" tall. So I'm huge and eat meat. Scary.
So would you be a Dire Gamer, or an Axiomatic Gamer, or simply a regular gamer with above average stats?
__________________ DM: Mendorn the Transmuter's legs turn into goat legs and he grows horns. Your charisma drops by 2 and your dex goes up by 2.
Dan: My PC grew goat legs and horns? Why?
DM: You drank potions you found strapped into the armpit of a dead bugbear. Their idea of acceptable side-effects might be different than yours.
Jason: Come on Dan, you know you should never drink a bugbear armpit potion...
While I've seen people get very good results on atkins, I would not recommend it at this time. Atkins works by making radical changes in your metabolism, including liver functions. (as I understood it when my bf was doing the diet and reading the book). If you are at the point where your doctor is making noises that scarey about organ failure, I can't see taking that big a step while adding vitamin suplements, while changing your exercise habits to be a good idea. People who are in good health except for being overweight can do that sort of thing and do themselves some good, but I'd really recomend taking this one step at a time.
On limes... While you can get folic acid a lot of places, to MAY be that bioavailabilty is better in limes, or that they are free of some other vitamin that accompanies folate in other forms that he doesn't want you having. It just seems odd that someone would know that obscure a source of folic acid and not mention so many others, so look into it before assuming he just got stuck on some odd lime obsession. A doctor with no people skills is bad, but don't assume that just because he has no people skills he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Kahuna Burger
__________________ I understand, comprehend, get, grok, and see your point. I can take, handle, cope and deal with the way you run your game. The reasons I disagree with you and/or dislike your playstyle preference lie elsewhere…
At the American Diabetes Association's annual meeting in June 2001, Eve Van Cauter, Ph.D., reported that people who regularly do not get enough sleep can become less sensitive to insulin. This increases their risk for diabetes and high blood pressure – both serious threats to the brain.
Previous work by Dr. Van Cauter, a professor of medicine at the University of Chicago, found that "metabolic and endocrine changes resulting from a significant sleep debt mimic many of the hallmarks of aging. We suspect that chronic sleep loss may not only hasten the onset but could also increase the severity of age-related ailments such as diabetes, hypertension, obesity, and memory loss ."
I work for a publisher and we publish alot of hokey diet books. I just can't take them seriously. I can't stress good nutrtion enough. I've had a week now, with the proper caloric intake and excercise and I can literally feel myself being lighter. I'm not as heavy as some people(5'5 - aprox. 130) but I have a very small , weak frame that can't support my weight. So when I get above 115 or so, it actually hurts.
If you need folic acid for your sleep problem, then eating foods (limes) high in it are better , in my opinion, than pills. Just don't go on a lime diet.
Good luck!
Sheri
__________________ I reject your reality & substitute my own
Originally posted by Seule I'm very wary of no-carb diets like Adkins, as I feel that leaving out carbs entirely can't be good long term, but if it works short term, I can't fault it too much. Just remember, you also have to keep the weight off, and anecdotal evidence that I've heard is that Adkins has a poor record in that respect. Note: I have not actually done research, it's just something someone told me.
Atkins is not no-carb, except for the first two weeks. After that is it merely low-carb. And it's certainly true that if you go off the diet you will put weight back on. This is because the people for whom Atkins is the most beneficial tend to be insulin resistant, which means that their bodies do not handle a high carbohydrate diet at all well. If you're insulin resistant, as many extremely overweight people are, you need to think of the low-carb way of eating as a lifestyle rather than as a diet that you go off of.
You can still eat carbs. Plenty of vegetables, moderate amounts of fresh fruits, *small* servings of fiber-rich grain products like sprouted wheat bread or whole wheat pasta. Twinkies, cheesy poofs and pitchers of margaritas, on the other hand, are right out.
Atkins is a very effective diet, and a low carb intake is manifestly healthier in all respects than one high in carbs (because the only way to get that high a carb intake is through processed flour and sugars, almost universally regarded as the white death).
To clarify Buttercup's advice, even the first two weeks of the Atkins (induction) are not 0-carb, they are <20 carbs. This basically means 2 small salads or certain vegetable servings per day. My typical induction menu was:
sausage or bacon and eggs with cheese for breakfast
hamburger patty (or two! ) with cheese for lunch and a small salad with ranch
chicken, one serving of green beans or small salad, for dinner
Snack liberally throughout the day on jerky (watch the carbs!), bacon, or some other meat.
OK, gotta go to the zoo, but I may stop back by later with more Atkins advice.
Originally posted by Kahuna Burger While I've seen people get very good results on atkins, I would not recommend it at this time. Atkins works by making radical changes in your metabolism, including liver functions. (as I understood it when my bf was doing the diet and reading the book).
*nod*. Kahuna Burger is right on this one. The Atkins diet, in effect, switches your body into "starvation" mode every few weeks. This isn't exactly safe for a person who isn't in basically good health to begin with.
In fact, there are quite a few doctors out there who aren't of the opinon that Atkins is all that more effective than other diets, and it may not be healthy in the long term for most people. Atkins, for example, can be murder on your kidneys and on your body's calcium levels.
The biggest hurdle I found to weight loss was my own ignorance of what good nutrition really was. We all learn the 4 food groups, but we don't really know what it means. I decided to educate myself, and picked up The Comple Idiot's Guide to Total Nutrition. The book is almost all good solid information about what each kind of food does for you, why it's important, and how to eat it right. It also gets into strategies for eating right at college, and for going through the grocery store. There is a kind of plan at the back, not really for dieting, but for making sure what you eat through the day is balanced.
After watching what I ate for a month using that basic plan, I felt so much better. My habit of wanting to fall asleep around 2 o'clock everyday disappeared, and I'd lost about 8 pounds. Plus, I actually found buying groceries cheaper, since I wasn't buying chips, soda, and preprepared foods.
Although I don't have sleep apnea, I do have post nasal drip, and whenever I lay down I get all clogged up as if I had a cold. For other people with this problem, I've found those Breathe Right strips work wonders. I refuse to sleep without them now.
In the end, you have to find what works for you to take weight off. Balanced eating and a good walk every day is the best I've found. Hope you find what works for you MaxKaladin. Good luck!
Originally posted by Zub I may have had it worse then you even. I don't recall exactly, but I had about 240 apnea events per hour. An apnea event being I went at least 20 seconds without taking a breath.
Hey Zub,
I'm afriad your maths doesn't quite work out for this - if you were having 240 Apneas an hour, you would have one every 15 seconds - therefore the next one would start 5+ seconds before the last one finished! :-)
Anyway, I *had* sleep apnea, and I don't any more.
How do I know I don't? Because I don't have that zombie-can't wake up feeling. I used to fall asleep at 2:30-3pm every day, including at work. I couldn't watch an hour long show at home at night without nodding off during it.
Now, none of that happens.
The weird part of this is *how* I stopped the sleep apnea.
When I went for my first test they measured me at 120 Apnea's a hour - that's two every minute (an apnea, for those who don't know, is when one ceases to breath for a period, and the body is forced to send an adrenaline burst to the brain to wake up and restart the breathing - 2 adrenaline burst a minute is not healthy).
I went for the second test with the mask on, and when I could finally wear it, I slept for about 2 hours with it on - and felt like I'd had 2 days sleep. It was great.
But when I tried the mask at home, but I couldn't use it - it made me feel clostraphobic. It did have that effect in the test, but they kept making me put it back on, and finally I fell asleep with it on.
At home, I couldn't leave it on. I got panic attacks. I have always had problems with my ears being blocked, and easily get colds and flues, so I often have a blocked nose. With the mask on I felt like I was suffocating.
I decided I was going to see a hynotherapist. I figured that one might be able to teach me a way to relax with the mask on, to help me conquer the fear.
Before I did go and see one, I mentioned it to a friend. He did some hynotism, and he suggested something to me. When I explained what the problem was (the airways close due to the throat getting too narrow as it relaxed with sleep), he suggested that perhaps a hypnotherapist could get me to keep my throat muscles "awake", and to not close off.
I started seeing the hynotherapist. I told her about my problem, why I was seeing her about it, and what my friend had suggested. Then she started her program with me.
Now, during these sessions I was aware of what she was saying for more than 90% of it. I also have a tape she made for me to use at home. At no time did she mention about keeping my throat awake, or anything like that, just phrases like relaxing, sleeping better, etc.
And my sleep apnea went away. My snoring decreased significantly (my flatmate used to hear me snore from his room, and no longer can).
I haven't really changed much in weight - if anything, I've put more on in that time. But it's 2.5 years since I had the hypnotherapy, and there's been no signs I've noticed that the sleep apnea is back.
When I told my sleep specialist that I was seeing a hynotherapist about it, and that it had helped, he almost laughed at me. I haven't been back to him (haven't needed to, and with that attitude, I wouldn't), but I have considered going back to the hynotherapist for some other issues.
As for weight loss - it won't happen unless you are willing to try to make it work.
Good Luck,
Duncan
__________________ "Verbing Wierds Language" - Calvin and Hobbes
Elf Witch, could you cite a reference on that? I'm pretty up to date on sleep deprivation, but I've never heard that before, and would absolutely like to learn more.
Thanks!
It was an article on health on AOL it might have been from webMD or the New York Times. It was a couple of months ago I can't remember I read so much online.
I don't know much about sleep apnea, besides the fact that you usually feel tired and run down, and are often irritable.
I do know a bit about weight loss, havine been a pretty fat dude in my time, and in much better shape right now.
Many times, an overweight person really fears that word "exercise" -- DON'T. You do not have to go crazy or anything. Go for a 30 minute (or more, if you feel up to it) walk every day.
Eat better, and eat a little less. You can turn down sweets and stuff, with a little willpower. If you slip, the key is to not kill yourself over it, just get back on that wagon. Also, if you're not hungry, than don't eat. Don't eat after 8pm, you can wait until the morning. Oh yeah, don't skip breakfast.
Want an easy, slightly extreme thing to do to help? I wouldn't try this before you go on that walk, but taking a spoonful of a fiber-supplement with a glass of water before you eat really help! Fiber slows the absorbtion of sugar into your system, and you'll lose weight. Of course, you'll need to poop a lot more, so don't make plans when you do this! Metamucil baby!
Originally posted by Piratecat Elf Witch, could you cite a reference on that? I'm pretty up to date on sleep deprivation, but I've never heard that before, and would absolutely like to learn more.
Well, I'm not Elf Witch, but I was able to find this article by doing a Medline search. There were more articles, not all of them in English, unfortunately. You can reproduce my results by going to PubMed and searching on 'Sleep Deprivation and Diabetes'.
Looked up folic acid in my copy of the Merck Manual of Medical Information. Principal sources of folic acid are leafy green veggies, fruits, liver and other organ meats, and dried yeast. It's main function is the maturation of red blood cells, and deficiency decreases the number of all blood cells - RBCs and WBCs. Daily requirement is 200 ug.
So your doctor probably told you to intake more folic acid to boost RBC production, which in turn would increase the amount of oxygen you can take in.
I'm afriad your maths doesn't quite work out for this - if you were having 240 Apneas an hour, you would have one every 15 seconds - therefore the next one would start 5+ seconds before the last one finished! :-)
Yeah, I messed that one up. I used to keep copies of the 2 sleep studies I had done, but I've lost them over the years. I know it was severe though. I'm convinced I wouldn't be alive today, if it hadn't been for my Doctor.
Atkins, for example, can be murder on your kidneys and on your body's calcium levels.
There is no proof of this. It is explained in the Adkins book that this is not true.
On exercise... if you go at it too hard when you are first starting out, you will learn to associate negative experiance to exercise. This will make you not exercise eventually. Ease into it, enjoy it. Slowly get used to it. Your brain is a powerful tool, and it WILL find a way to avoid something you hate to do. I got to the point that I felt bad if I didnt or couldnt go to the gym. I learned to look foreward to it.
![[OT] Sleep Apnea, Limes, Folic Acid and Weight Loss](http://www.enworld.org/forum/iconimages/general-rpg-discussion/ot-sleep-apnea-limes-folic-acid-weight-loss_ltr.gif)
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