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One day about 3 months ago I decided to start living better. Not because someone told me to, not because I didn't like what I was, not because I was afraid for my health. It started with me talking to a co-worker who liked to jog, and me thinking, "I should try jogging..."
So I now jog, bike, walk, and will soon start swimming once again, something that I loved to do as a kid. I lift weights nearly every day, but mostly because that helps in my job, which can be labor intensive. I drink more water and juice, and if I have to drink soda, it's diet (which I didn't think I'd ever get used to, but I now find regular pop to be far too sweet). I eat way more fruit and veggies (I've had 2 oranges, an apple and 3 bananas today, surpsising how filling that can be).
I'm not trying to lose weight, and I never think of it as a diet, it's just a healthy lifestyle, and it's fairly easy to get used to. In fact, I find that instead of trying to think of reasons not go for a jog every day, I'm always trying to find time to squeeze it in, because I like it. I feel a lot better and my work is much easier.
Bottom line is, before a few months ago, I'd have said I'd never do anything like this, because I didn't want to. My time was precious to me, and I wouldn't spend it doing things I didn't want to and eating things I didn't like. Thing was, I didn't realize that it's not only not bad, it's pretty cool. So don't think of it as a diet, or an exercise regiman, and before you know it, it'll become second nature. My willpower's not all that great, but it's not about willpower, its just about making a decsion. At least it was for me.
Well, I'm not Elf Witch, but I was able to find this article by doing a Medline search. There were more articles, not all of them in English, unfortunately. You can reproduce my results by going to PubMed and searching on 'Sleep Deprivation and Diabetes'.
HTH!
Thanks Buttercup I have bben looking for the article but could not find it.
*nod*. Kahuna Burger is right on this one. The Atkins diet, in effect, switches your body into "starvation" mode every few weeks. This isn't exactly safe for a person who isn't in basically good health to begin with.
In fact, there are quite a few doctors out there who aren't of the opinon that Atkins is all that more effective than other diets, and it may not be healthy in the long term for most people. Atkins, for example, can be murder on your kidneys and on your body's calcium levels.
This is simply not true.I was in very bad health. My diabetes was out of control. My cholesterol was out of this world. I have been on Atkins for four and half months. I am off all diabetic medicines and my cholestral levels are now very normal and healthy.
New studies from Britian showed that it is does not damage healthy kidneys now if you have kidney problems that much ketones can be bad. It is always a wise idea to check with a doctor before starting any new eating plan.
As for calicum I get plenty I eat cheese and leafy vegetables and since I am in my forties I take a supplement. If you are worried about to much animal fat just choose to eat more chicken, fish and very lean cuts of meat.
As for starvation this is where Atkins is good you take in enough calories so your metoblism does not go into starvation mode.
Of course the Atkins plan flies in the face of all the thinking with the low fat meat is bad crowd. I liked to point out that the eskimos, the french and people in the mediterranean eat higher fat diets and have lower chances of heart attacks. I don't think that all fat is bad for you what is bad for you in trans fats found in most prepared food and junk food. Then there is refined sugar and refined flours they both tend to trigger huge insulin spikes which is now being linked to heart disease. Carbs can be bad if you choose them wrong healthy carbs take longer to digest because they are filled with fiber which slows the insulin trigger. So whole wheat, leafy green vegetables, whole fruits not juice and whole oats are all healthy and part of the Atkins diet.
The inuit tend to eat a lot of foods rich in omega-3 oils, which is good for your heart, and the French drink a lot of red wine, which is believed to have chemicals that promote a healthy heart.
The fatty foods they eat are not what promotes good health for them. It's like saying role-playing makes you fat. The people who game tend to lead sedentary lifestyles, so they tend to be overweight. But it isn't reading the PHB that causes weight-gain.
Originally posted by Umbran The Atkins diet, in effect, switches your body into "starvation" mode every few weeks.
This is completely incorrect.
Quote:
In fact, there are quite a few doctors out there who aren't of the opinon that Atkins is all that more effective than other diets, and it may not be healthy in the long term for most people. Atkins, for example, can be murder on your kidneys and on your body's calcium levels.
Actually, there have been some recent studies by prestigious medical schools that contradict this. Low carb diets, Atkins or any other, have been found to be safe for anyone with normal kidney function. They have also been found to lower triglyderide levels remarkably, and to decrease overall cholesterol levels while indreasing HDL (good) cholestoral. For people with insulin resistance, it is looking like low carb may be the best choice, not just to lose weight, but to ward off chronic disease. It is, though, recommended that women on this diet take calcium supplements. But then, it's recommended that all women between the ages of 12 and 70 take calcium, to decrease their risk of osteoporosis.
edit: When I grow up, I'm going to learn to code the freakin' quotes right the first time.
Last edited by Buttercup; 24th August 2003 at 07:12 PM..
No one whose posted in this thread has shown that they've graduated from Med. School and are a licensed, practicing physician. So let's all stop practicing medicine, shall we?
The fact of the matter is that Atkins is controversial. Reasonable doctors can and do disagree. So let's everyone drop our fanatical attitudes toward it both for and against.
Max, I'll repeat what I said before. You should get your doctor to refer you to a nutritionist so you can consult with someone who knows what they're talking about and can look at your health and your needs. You can ask your nutritionist if he or she thinks that Atkins would be a good idea in your case or whether some other kind of diet would be more appropriate.
While ENWorld is a good place to get feedback and information from your peers, it's really not suited to medical advice, as I'm sure you're aware. Talk with a doctor and get some solid information. But please come back and keep us updated on how your apnea treatment is going. We'd all love to hear from you.
--G
Last edited by Goobermunch; 24th August 2003 at 07:15 PM..
Hi Maxcaladin
Sorry to hear about the Sleep Apnoea. I am a doctor in the UK so I know a little bit about what we are talking about here. I presume you have the obstructive form.....which means that your airway when you are asleep gets intermittantly blocked, usually as a result of a relaxed tongue (muscles relax when you asleep) slipping back in your phaynx and most people have large necks with less airway space (in Uk >size 17 neck is a risk factor for sleep apnoea). When the airway is blocked your oxygen decreases, this stimulates your brain to higher activity and you semi rouse to get open the blockage. The severity of the sleep disorder is determine by the frequency of the blockages (measured by dips in oxygen and rousing on sleep studies) and the degree of oxygen drop. As some have said, you get over a 1000 disturbances per night. In the short term is doesnot do to much apart from make you very tired, low fatigue and sometimes fall asleep the next day in normal activities. However, what your doctor was saying about other organ involvement can indeed happen if this continues overtime. From a physiological point of view is that when the oxygen is low in the blood, the lung arteries constrict. If this persists over time it raises the pulmonary blood pressure and this means the right side of the heart has to work harder and can fail. The extreme case of cardiac and pulmonary failure is rare, particularly as sleep apnoea is not that uncommon. I have only ever managed 1 patient with sleep apnoea and lung and right heart failure. You did not say that you had these effects and that your doctor just warned you about them. He was telling you what would happen if nothing was done....but it sounds like you are doing something so that is great. The machine you are to be treated with has been shown to work well. It works by keeping the airway open with positive air pressure. It is a mask and can be noisy. However, because it works most people get better sleep and therefore, all the other problems of fatigue etc reduce. Good luck with it.
Other techniques that can be useful are avoiding alcohol before bed...muscle relaxant. Everyone is right about weight loss, as this will help the sleep apnoea. You have to find the right one for you, but the simple rule to remember is that the net energy output (ie exercise) has to be greater than the net energy input (ie food). Therefore it is finding that balence......usually involves more exercise as opposed to fad diets. Overall the best way is to eat a sensible diet (avoiding crap) and increase exercise. You also want slow gradual weight loss as well , as this is more likely to stay off.
Finally, about the lime and folic acid thing. I have never heard anything about lime causing weight loss. However, effects it may have are 1) vitamin c is anti-oxidant...heart disease protection (?) 2) in animals it has been shown to increase iron absorption 3) one study has shown it may help with reducing LDL-cholesterol in men (the bad cholesterol). With respect to folic acid again I have never heard of it helping with weight loss. Again it has some benefits of note......1) sleep apnoea patients with heart disease have higher homocysteine levels (biochemical pathway in folate) and folic acid can reduce these homocysteine levels 2) it helps with absorbing vitamin B12.
I am sorry your doctor did not explain that much to you. I hope you do not mind me putting all this down, but I thought as I have some skill in this area I might be able to ease your mind a bit. Hope it helps. Good luck.
Dear Gnome Bezerker
Folate is a natural vitamin that should come from our foods. The recommended levels needed per day is between 300-400 micro grammes ( a good balenced diet should cover it). There has been no evidence that large amounts cause problems. You probably only need to take it if your doctor recommends it (ie you are folate deficient, trying to get pregnant (has helped reducing spina bifida), on rheumatic drug of methotrexate etc). Generally as it is a vitamin it is okay to take with most things but always check with your doctor first. Hope this helps.
I too was diagnosed with sleep apnea. well the tests were largly inconclusive because all those wires they hook you up to were so uncomfortable that they didn't get to start recording any usefull data until about 3am and I was to be outta there by 6am. the tech kept coming in and telling me to "quit moving around and go to sleep" I just growled at him. sleep for me has always been a battle that I eventully sucomb to. It generally takes me 30-45 minutes to even get to sleep once I lay down.
the doctor told me I had 2 options a cast plastic mouth piece or a gas mask type face mask which I would never get to sleep in. I tried the mouth piece for a few weeks, but its just so uncomfortable it takes me even longer to get to sleep! so I feel your pain.
__________________ Scribe to the Scarred Lands Sage
I'm an American physician and can vouch for what johncolossus has said. His summary is a pretty good one. I don't know of any link to folate and sleep apnea per say, but folate is one of those vitamins/minerals that does the body good. As said above it reduces homocysteine levels which are related to heart disease and is used for red blood cell (RBC) production. Your body should be getting enough for RBC production if you eat green leafy vegetables without the need for supplements. It also prevents neurotube defects (things like spina bifida) if taken during the early parts of pregnancy. American doctors recommend a folate supplement for nearly all women of child bearing age since spina bifida is usually preventable.
Let me just say that I too do need to lose weight, but I more than likely had apnea before I gained weight , so it's likely that losing weight will not help. That being said - I accept my fate on the CPAP machine for the time being. So let me say this about the CPAP:
Many people find they cannot deal with it. Having something on your face, blowing air through your nose to keep your airway open is initially uncomfortable - this is a fact. However, (and this is to the gentleman above who said he couldn't get used to it as well) - there are MANY types of masks available now, and the newest models are extremely comfortable AND UNINTRUSIVE.
The traditional type of masks are plastic and cover the entire nose. Many people are completely successful with these. However, for those who are not there are alternates. The first is called the Breeze - and it is basically like a walkman headphone - except it goes from the front of your nose to the back of your head - never touching any part of your face but under your nostrils. This allows you greater freedom of movement because now you can lay with the side of your face on the pillow. The other one - which I was succcessful with - is the Nasal Aire. This looks similar to those tubes you see people who are getting oxygen - tubes go just up into the nostrils, run across your face and behind your ears. I found this one the most comfy because the rubber is extremely soft and I can really "bury" my face in the pillow like I used to before using the CPAP.
It took me almost 6 months of trying different masks and two sleep doctors until I finally got a mask I could use without issue. It is really trial and error and can be very frustrating, but once you get one that works and can sleep the whole night with it on, you'll be amazed at the results.
Anyway - I wanted to let you know that - as well as Sanackranib - I feel your pain - but know that there ARE new masks out there that are extremely comfortable and unintrusive.
Originally posted by Gnome Berzerker Does Folic Acid have any negative side effects, or things it shouldn't be used in combination with?
Again, paraphrasing Merck:
Not really, but taking folic acid at about 100 times the recommended dosage can increase the requency of seizures in epileptics and can worsen damage in people with vitamin B12 deficiency.
Originally posted by robaustin - there are MANY types of masks available now, and the newest models are extremely comfortable AND UNINTRUSIVE.
The traditional type of masks are plastic and cover the entire nose. Many people are completely successful with these. However, for those who are not there are alternates.
When I went over the test results with my doctor he told me that based on the fact that my difficulty is actually getting to sleep [once I get to sleep I am a sound sleeper] that the full mask would probably not be the best option for me. I agreed since having stuff over my nose or mouth really bothers me. the device I got looks somthing like a boxers mouth piece and changes the angle of the breathing passage keeping it more open so airflow is increased. but for me I never really got used to it. guess I'll just have to drop the weight since for most guys thats the main contributing factor.
__________________ Scribe to the Scarred Lands Sage
When I went over the test results with my doctor he told me that based on the fact that my difficulty is actually getting to sleep [once I get to sleep I am a sound sleeper] that the full mask would probably not be the best option for me. I agreed since having stuff over my nose or mouth really bothers me.
That's why I was suggesting the Nasal Aire - There's not a lot over the nose at all. IT's not a FULL MASK at all, it's very small. See: http://www.cpapman.com/nasalair.html
Quote:
the device I got looks somthing like a boxers mouth piece and changes the angle of the breathing passage keeping it more open so airflow is increased. but for me I never really got used to it. guess I'll just have to drop the weight since for most guys thats the main contributing factor. [/b]
Yep, those are also somewhat effective, but definitely not the best thing. Also - it's been shown in many studies, that losing weight only cuts down on apnea in 20% of cases and in those another 10% only cut down 50% of the apnea. THose numbers for losing weight are pretty low. It is NOT the main contributing factor, it has more to do with the muscles in the back of the throat then anything else. Some people have muscles that stay tight and keep the airway open, some do not. It's not anything you have control over.
As I said before I went to a second doctor because my first doc was an ENT and didn't know a LOT about Apnea. My second doc is exclusively a doctor specializing in sleep disorders and nothing else. She was excellent and helped me get the right "mask." If you keep at it, you can get used to something like the Nasal Aire. Gotta tell ya I could NEVER tolerate the other masks, but the NAsal Aire did it. You barely feel it after a few nights.
My point is - don't give up on this - even if you lose the weight, you may not see a reduction in apnea. Better to treat it with the treatment that has the highest success rate - the CPAP. Get a second opinion if your doctor isn't suggesting other masks like the NAsal Aire.
Buttercup, Blood Jester and Rigur - thank you for tracking that down! Interesting, and not entirely surprising.
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