General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
The game simply kicks ass. I've finally gotten a new group together and have started playing again on a weekly basis, and it has given me some time to think on why it's so much darned fun, especially with all the discussions about it's success here recently. So check this out:
I see two primary facets of the game that are the reasons why we keep coming back to play, week after week, and why it holds such a cherished place in our hearts. To many of you these may seem obvious, but I felt the need to recognize them and write them down.
Facet One: The Rules
As Robin Laws so aptly puts it, the "crunchy bits". Reading an RPG book is like catalog shopping for super powers - "Ooh, multishot! I'll take one of those!" When it come to the actual gameplay, it's all about strategy and tactics, just spiced with a whole mess of flavor harkening to every cool action scene from every movie we've seen.
Like the DMG says, only the uber gamer geeks have every single rule memorized, the rest of us kind of make do and resolve our moments of drama and suspense the best we can, on the fly. And that's okay! Sure, there's something to be said for figuring out all the sexy little exploits in the ruleset, or calculating your to-hit chances to the third decimal place. But even if you're twelve years old and cracking the core rulebooks for the first time and don't know what the heck you're doing, there's still an inate strategic appeal.
This game is a powerful little exercise in excitement and triumph - a well-researched and well-balanced ruleset with the perfect blend of matching wits with each other over a table of miniatures with a nice little dose of randomness determining each and every action. Lots of times you win and it feels damn good, and sometimes you lose, which can make you nervous and excited and all the more enthusiastic when you win again. Even though it's all just numbers on paper.
Facet Two: The Roleplay
Is it dead, is it not dead? Whatever. No matter how dry your DM is with the flavor text, who doesn't get a little thrill crawling up their spine when their characters are looking down the foreboding entrance of another Dungeon? Even if you're just trading hit point damages back and forth, aren't you still imagining how much your character is a bad-ass in combat? Don't tell me that "style points" weren't a factor when you were picking your favored weapon?
My buddies and I definitely favor the beer-and-pretzels style of roleplay - we don't take things too seriously (Lord knows we all know what happens when we get too into our characters, don't we, BlackLeaf?) and the game can quickly devolve into jokes and anachronisms and people making light-hearted fun of each other. I think that that's just part of the role-playing too.
But the grins and anticipation are really visible when the DM's describing the dusky hush of a temple hall, or the snort and the scrape of a minotaur pawing at the ground in a deadly challenge. Or the chuckles at the crazy antics of a colorful NPC, or the cackle of the BBEG as he invokes his dark Gods in the height of combat; these too are the moments that make the game. I make it a point to make every player describe what happens when he makes a critical hit, or to explain what their character looks like and acts whenever someone new comes to the table. It's all part of the ambience - it has nothing to do with the feelings of winning or losing, it just makes the game seem richer.
So there it is. I think the real magic is the back and forth between the rules and the roleplay. I can't think of a single other pasttime that integrates both sides of the brain like this so well and so seemlessly. For those of you who constantly snipe on the lack of realism in the D20 system or whatever, I feel like that is where good roleplay comes in - the rules are purely an abstract of fantasy action. They're there for fun. Like playing chess or video games, that part of the game is just the thrill of succeeding within a set of defined paramenters. If you want realism, roleplay it. Be creative. Describe exactly what your character's doing and why he's doing it. If he fails the check, come up with an explanation as to why it failed, instead of looking to the rules to explain it for you. Have fun. play around with ideas. Let other players explain what's going on. Do the mind-share thing.
And for those of you harping on people who don't roleplay enough, or get into the world you're creating, remember that sometimes the combat and number-crunching can be a lot of fun by itself. Cut the guy some slack if he spends all his time figuring out exactly where to move his figure for maximum advantage, where to work the five-foot step and strategize his full attack, or at what exact hit-point level to strategically withdraw. It may not seem "realistic", but the guy's probably totally enjoying himself.
Action, problem-solving, strategy, flavor, creativity, prose and poetry, all in a single evening and for the low low price of a set of books. We, as gamers, are the blessed of the world. We get to have incredible amounts of fun with fairly little spent.
Share and Enjoy, baby!
__________________ Edition shmedition. D&D is a lot of fun, no matter how you play it.
Hm. I guess I get different things out of the game than you, kiznit!
I'm not a great fan of "the rules for their own sake" - if I'm choosing Multishot for my character, I guess it's for style points rather than because it's the best thing off the crunchy-bits shopping list! Don't get me wrong, I do get lots of enjoyment out of rolling lots of d6s for my Fireball or Sneak Attack, but it's not the best bit about the game.
What makes the game for me? Yeah, roleplay! Sometimes it's lighthearted, but sometimes getting into character is intense and hard emotional work, and that's cool, because those are really memorable sessions. Interactions with cool NPCs and with the other PCs really make my D&D game. Combat, when it's dynamic and dramatic, can be great (but it can also be dry as dust). Developing a rich and complex and heroic and cool character is the name of the game for me as a player. As a DM, I like providing a vehicle for my players' cool characters to shine.
Probably my attitude could be best put by reversing the order of your points!
Cool post, though, nice to see some enthusing for once!
Hm. I guess I get different things out of the game than you, kiznit!
Probably my attitude could be best put by reversing the order of your points!
Cool post, though, nice to see some enthusing for once!
Sorry... I didn't mean to give the impression that I was listing facets in order of importance. IMO, rules & roleplaying are equally important, or I would even go so far as to say that they're not really even quantifiable against each other.. like apples and oranges, everyone has their own style of play, and the beauty of D&D is that it accomodates everyone by allowing for both, and it's really that variable mixture that makes it so wonderful. Like a good fruit salad, if I may abuse the analogy further.
Obviously, the game should be about the fun first and foremost. And I agree; multishot is all about the style points.
k
__________________ Edition shmedition. D&D is a lot of fun, no matter how you play it.
Wooo! Can I get an amen? Wooo! Can I get a witness? Hallelujah, Hallelujah! Woooooo!
__________________ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><> "Dad, I love you. But I'm not sure if it's because you're my dad or if it's Stockholm Syndrome." --my son at 12 years old.
Quote of the night last game session: "Want to come to my prepaid hotel room? Bouncy bouncy!" October 25th, 2008
"Not everybody likes the same sort of games.
Everybody ought to play the sort of games they like.
It's not a stupid idea to sometimes try something you're not sure if you like or not.
Just because somebody likes or dislikes something you feel differently about doesn't make them (or you) stupid or a jerk.
Except Julie Andrews. If you dislike Julie Andrews, you're a jerk. And Golden Retriever puppies." --Barsoomcore
"There is a handsome and mysterious stranger in your future. He will try to kill you and take your stuff." --Sejs
And THIS is what I meant when I said that not all of us have role-assumption as the ultimate goal. Everybody gets something different out of the game, and it is possible to blend many of these things together.
Thanks for the great post, kiznit!
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
after just suffering thru probably the worst session i have had in the last 4 years...
all i can say...
is hope.
the hope that some day. some where. some how. i will get to play real D&D again.
__________________ Story Hour
OMG! The SKY IS FALLING! --JoeGKushner
Myself, I plan to masturbate less -- der_kluge
I know that I've never really liked d20. I think it was designed by a bunch of hacks --- Monte Cook
I am sickened beyond belief. The half-orc wizard is obviously the best possible PC, and I only had to read 10 pages of the book to figure it out. D&D is dead to me! -- Mike Mearls
FWIW, I'm on the design team and I pretty much find WoW as fun and interesting as banging my head against a brick wall. -- Mike Mearls
you happen to say that 4E reminds you of the reasons you decided against a career as a special-Ed teacher--noted rpg author Darrin Drader
I love the roleplaying aspects, but for me the best part is getting together with the same group of guys that I have known since 1985 every Sunday. Getting away from Girlfriends/wives, work related problems, family issues and the everyday drain of stress, to place ourselves in a world where we can be what we aren't in real life. Dragonslayers, Arch-wizards, and High priests. A little color is fun. The best thing though, is the hours we spend joking on each other...and when John's saving throw against the Wail of the Banshee trap last night ( dc23 ) all of us yelling 1....1....1.....1... because that is all his Dwarf will fail on, and guess what,,,he rolls a 1. Then me Raising him, because we don't have True Ressurrection, and him whining all night about losing 12000 xp in the process...us responding with appropriate Waaaghhh's and Oooooh...that look like that hurt...
The comaraderie of good friends...that's the best part...some beers and pizza, football talk and making fun of each others pitiful failures...because fortunately, those failures can be made up for with Raises, and Heals, while real life failures have real life consequences.
__________________ And you Barbarian, what is lifes greatest joy? " To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women"
Kiznit, thank you for the wonderful post about why D&D is great. It described my own reasons for loving the game almost exactly. After weeks of seeing posts about how deep-immersion role-playing is an inherently superior style of play, it's refreshing to see somebody who realizes that D&D is a game and not community theater.
__________________ -Dark Jezter
"He who does not punish evil commands it to be done."
-Leonardo Da Vinci
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."
- Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant.
After weeks of seeing posts about how deep-immersion role-playing is an inherently superior style of play, it's refreshing to see somebody who realizes that D&D is a game and not community theater.
AMEN
DND is all about fun and I hope everyone who plays can find their own version of fun.
__________________ "...Dungeons and Dragons takes sociopaths off the streets, forces them to socialize, and generally prevents crime."
Yeah, I'll admit I really miss the fun. That escapism that D&D offers, that no other avenue can quite compete with. Definatly not TV, or even partying (mainly because I'm usually drunk), and computer and console games just get old. D&D always, even on slow nights, manages to put a smile on my face.
Hear, hear!
I'm it it for the socializing, the role-playing, the story, and the mental challenges. In no particular order of preference.
As for electronic games, they leave me really cold. I can play at them a bit, but they get old very quickly.
Last edited by thalmin; 25th May 2004 at 02:00 AM..
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