General RPG Rules DiscussionDiscuss the rules of any game except D&D or Pathfinder, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, d20 Modern, and the like.
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Which setting do you prefer? I've heard good things about iron kingdom's, but I can't recall much at all I've heard about dragonmech. What are the pro's and con's of each setting?
The two are very different in flavor and mechanics. They really don't have much in common.
The Iron Kingdoms is a very grim n' gritty setting. It has a strong steampunk vibe both in trappings and themes, although Privateer Press for some reason dislikes the term steampunk, preferring Full Metal Fantasy. It pays lip service to standard D&D, but doesn't bend over backwards to include it; it's about as close to Greyhawk as Dark Sun is. The mecha, which are the only real connection to Dragonmech, are lumbering, steampowered uber-golems. Despite appearing on the cover of the Character Guide, they're not really meant for PC use and play a much bigger role in the attached wargame, Warmachine Prime.
Dragonmech is both more sci-fi and a more D&D. I'm not as familiar with the line, but from what I've seen it's built around the mecha from the ground up, and they are integral to the way the PCs interact with the world. The mecha are integrated across the board - everything from dwarves to orcs to aboleths(!) gets its own variety. Mecha aside, the setting is an interesting twist on the classic dragon invasion plotline and I suppose you could run a fun campaign even if the PCs never hopped in a 100-ft. tall magical machine.
Dragonmech is more modular and a vastly better resource. You could rip the mecha from it and use them in another setting - Eberron would be appropriate. Certainly the monsters could be used anywhere. The crunch is much better than the Iron Kingdoms'. It's a great d20 resource and a good setting.
The Iron Kingdoms is more complete as a setting. It has 400 pages of pure fluff dedicated to its intricately detailed setting, a huge character guide, three critically acclaimed modules and arguably the best monster book on the market from a flavor perspective. The crunch is weak if not indecipherable, the fluff is suberb, and it's a worthy successor to the great settings of 2e.
Well, it would be hard to add much to what MoogleEmpMog said. Very complete!
I've run both games several times. Iron Kingdoms requires less set up because the world is already in place. DragonMech feels like it was written to be "bolted on" to an existant setting.
I like to make up worlds, so DragonMech has been more fun for me. Of course, I also love miniatures, and Iron Kingdoms boasts it's own minis game and massive mini support.
I have had evil thoughts of bringing the Lunar Rain down on Caen (IK) and turning it into Dragonmech. This would neatly explain where all the Mech tech came from in the first place. Hmmm.....
__________________ "I came into this world with nothing and still have most of it left."
I think the Dragonmech world is a lot better developed than people seem to give it credit for. There is perhaps a problem with the basic book not giving quite enough information for you to start a working campaign, but the latest book, 2nd age of walkers properly fleshes out the world, showing that a lot of the cultures involved are very well thought out and are interesting to both read about and play.
However, I have no insight into iron kingdoms, save for a close gaming friend of mine (and cultural archeology graduate) who said the cultures were a bit contrived. The cultures in dragonmech do feel quite whole and organic in this sense, but you do perhpas need the 2nd age book to fully apreciate this.
I hate to 'diss' a produt that I've never read, but I think the cultures in Dragonmech are actually one of the strong points of the game; they're quite different from typical fantasy cultures and really make the world come to life, IMO. I'm not trying to say that IK is bad, I don't realy know. My only point is that the one criticism I've heard is something that I believe to be a strength of dragonmech.
Well! I'm glad I now know the difference between the two. DragonMech sounds a lot more like what I'm am looking for in my Steampunk fantasy. What supplements are good for DragonMech?
Even though I prefer Iron Kingdoms more, Dragonmech is a fine setting. Here is the major difference that you will feel right away:
Dragonmech's setting has mechs that are right in your face. The mechs and the rest of the technology is the basis of the campaign. People can actually get in the mechs and in some cases there are whole mech cities! It has a little more of a Mad Max feel to it. IK on the other hand feels like a more traditional campaign with the mechs and technology a little bit in the background. You could probably play a lot of IK and never really experience much of the technology (except for some characters who have old pistols).
"The Shardsfall Quest" is the first adventure DragonMech released. It is ok. The end is WAY too railroad for me, but it's easy enough to change.
"Rumors & Lies" is a PDF-only product that provides tons of hooks for your game. EXCELLENT.
"Mech Manual" is DragonMechs' monster manual. I have not finished it yet, but so far, I like it. As someone else posted, the mechs are very "in your face". I like that.
"The Second Age of Walkers" is the "setting book". I have not finished this one either, but so far it is good and STUFFED with information. It breaks down all of the relevant factions in the world and goes into some serious detail (but detail a GM could easily use).
"Steam Warriors" is due out in June, I think. Looking forward to that!
-Tom
__________________ "I came into this world with nothing and still have most of it left."
Pretty much ditto what Tom said. I've perhaps read a bit more of the 2nd age of walkers, and I'd say that's your first must have, after that it depends on your style of gaming. I think you'd need to go for either Rumors and Lies or the Shardsfall Quest. Go for R&L if you like to build your own adventures (its full of adventure ideas) or SfQ if you'd prefer to at least start with a ready made one. The mech manual will become necessary after a while, but I don't think you'll need it to start with.
"The Second Age of Walkers" is the "setting book". I have not finished this one either, but so far it is good and STUFFED with information. It breaks down all of the relevant factions in the world and goes into some serious detail (but detail a GM could easily use).
Thanks for the list Gospog! Although I do not quite have the moentary resources to snap up DragonMech and any supplements right now, I am putting together a tight list of products to acquire. Anyway, it sounds to me like The Second Age of Wlakers would be the second book in the line to get. Is this what you would reccomend for my second DragonMech purchase? I'm not big on buying adventures, as I like to construct my own.
***WARNING****WARNING****WARNING*** Iron Kingdoms Fan!
I vastly prefer the Iron Kingdoms to Dragon Mech which is way too over the top for my taste. Reminiscent of the old D&D Earthsaker adventure. I just do not buy the idea of humongous humanoid warmachines. At least the ones in WARMACHINE are on a more believable scale. (I cannot stand Battletech for the same reason.) Iron Kingdoms is much more consistent, and has a gritty feeling that I prefer. I like the politics, the fact that the drums of war are only now starting to pound again, and the religious conflicts that drive so much contention. I view the over all culture as a mix of 17th, 18th, and 19th century Europe. I like the fact that arcane magic is distrusted, and as far as item creation goes, all magic is somewhat dangerous. The limits on healing magic and raising the dead give more immediacy to danger.
I will admit that the Mechankal magic item rules are complex, and could have been much better written, but once grasped they are by no means 'weak'. They are a very viable addition to the item creation rules given in the DMG, without suplanting them, it is hard to say which is better, a Mechanical wand or a standard wand, both have strengths and weaknesses. On the Privateer Press website is a much clearer description of the system, though I wish it was not so needed.
The races vary a good deal from the D&D norm, and while I think that there are balance issues with the Ogrun (ogres) I like their friendly relationship with the Rhul (dwarfs). I like the xenophobic elfs, and even the manic Gobbers (goblins).
I like the classes, they add flavor to the setting. I would have liked to have seen more in the Character Guide, but given that it was already massive I can understand the limits they were under.
The cultures in Dragon Mech are at least as contrived as those in Iron Kingdoms, in part because the basic premise is so very, very contrived. (Meteors, yeah, right...) Iron Kindom's cultures are contrived in the sense that they are very loosely based on real world cultures, but do not always fit their environs well. Corvis for example has a climate that is much like Louisiana (complete with crocs), yet every body has British accents and slang.
For a high level game Warjacks are in fact something that the PCs may have access to, even being a Warcaster, ablbeit not one of the named WARMACHINE Warcasters, is possible.
I do have problems with some aspects of the setting, and have cherry picked rules from other sources to cover what I consider problems (guns that cost multiple GP per shot? Yeah, right...) but I would likely do that in any event, the ability to do so is possibly my favorite aspects of D20.
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