M&M and True20 -- What should I buy?

[Jeff Wilder]

Aside from the game rulebooks themselves, and discounting adventures, what two books should I buy for each of Mutants & Masterminds and True20?

What I want are the books that will be most useful to me in creating characters and designing scenarios for one-shot or short-term games (for conventions, for instance). I want books that are fully compatible with the latest version of the rulebook, so I can use them without knowing the respective systems inside-and-out.

If you share a few words on "why this book is what you're looking for," I'll be especially grateful.

[Aus_Snow]

Hm. Well, which version of True20 do you have (Adventure Roleplaying or revised, or the earlier version even?) - and also, what kinds of things do you think you might want to run with either or both?

True20 revised negates my first suggestion: True20 Companion. So, I won't try to get a bunch of them sorted just yet.

[Jeff Wilder]

Originally Posted by Aus_Snow

Hm. Well, which version of True20 do you have (Adventure Roleplaying or revised, or the earlier version even?) - and also, what kinds of things do you think you might want to run with either or both?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I will be buying True20 Revised and M&M 2nd.

As for types of games, one reason I'm investigating True20 is that it seems suited for adapting to all sorts of games. Genres I'd use it for, if possible, include low fantasy, modern paranormal investigations, and mysteries. Just for example. I'd like supplemental rulebooks that are generic enough to provide options like these.

(Is it possible that the True20 Companion will be revised soonish?)

[ValhallaGH]

That's a tough request. Both systems are notable for only needing the main book, with all other purchases being supplements to enhance a specific style or genre of game play.

M&M: Instant Super Heroes - at least three variations on each of dozens of heroic archetypes. All PL 10, all easily adjusted to be custom heroes or villains.
Freedom City setting - dozens of organizations, villains, heroes, and a very kick-ass setting all ready to go. Perfect for theft or actually running campaigns in (I've used both methods with great success).

True20: The Companion is included in the Revised edition, which is why we don't bother recommending it if you've got that book (and heartily endorse it if you don't have the Revised edition).
Which two others you'll want. ... Tough call. Most of the great books are settings, which come with lots of neat flavor and crunch designed to promote that flavor. I'm pretty blah on the rest, though the Adept's handbook is great for powers-oriented campaigns.

[Aus_Snow]

Originally Posted by Jeff Wilder

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I will be buying True20 Revised and M&M 2nd.

As for types of games, one reason I'm investigating True20 is that it seems suited for adapting to all sorts of games. Genres I'd use it for, if possible, include low fantasy, modern paranormal investigations, and mysteries. Just for example. I'd like supplemental rulebooks that are generic enough to provide options like these.

In a way, that could be tricky - that is, I don't know of too many generic supplemental rulebooks that aren't just well, splats (e.g., Expert's Handbook), other than the Companion (see below). There are settings, that also provide some crunch, covering low fantasy of sorts and certainly the other option there. Could they be any use?

(Is it possible that the True20 Companion will be revised soonish?)

If you're getting Revised, you get the Companion for nada! Basically, it's the original True20 Adventure Roleplaying core book, minus the sample settings that one had, plus the Companion, with the whole thing patched with all up-to-date errata.

[ValhallaGH]

Memory!
True 20: Blood and Fists - generic martial arts combat book. It aims for a modern flavor but can be useful in any setting. Be warned, not everyone likes the way it works (though so far I've only heard one complaint) - basically style feats give a small bonus to a skill or two and improve feats that the style emphasizes (trip, grab, defense, etc). There's an extra mechanic included, by way of internal / external styles, but that's simple and cool. A good book in almost any setting, as long as melee combat is supposed to be important.

For a second, you'll need to expand some more on what you've already said.

[Jeff Wilder]

That's good information to have. Thanks! The M&M suggestions seem pretty good to me. (I own the 1st edition M&M and Freedom City from a few years back, and FC was great.)

As far as True20 goes, then ... ignore my preferences. I'm interested in your opinions on which two books, settings or otherwise, are best.

[Aus_Snow]

I like Paragons, for M&M. But then, the themes and content probably just appeal to me, as much as having relative 'objective' merit. A bonus, however: it has an updated version of the mass combat rules originally found in the Golden Age sourcebook.

So, I'd be tempted with Freedom City and Paragons, for my 2 books, with what you seem to be looking for in mind. But I'm not sure if what Paragons is about is as much your kind of thing.

[ValhallaGH]

Paragons is good. Lots of example characters, some really neat ideas. But it's weak on organizations, super-tech, and some of the example builds don't make any damn sense (Why is Blue Shift is a master of defensive combat, instead of Dodge Focused? Why does Nightstalker need to be able to harm Impervious 12 characters?). If you can only pick up two books, Freedom City is probably a more useful setting to swipe from (though some of it's builds are just as screwy - Arggo and Meta-Grue come to mind, along with Lady Liberty's Healing 11), and Instant Super Heroes is almost exactly the sort of thing the OP is after.

True 20: I love Blood Throne, so I'm biased towards it (I even have a small development credit). That said, I think it's got some really neat mechanics in there, and showcases the flexibility of the True 20 system quite well. The blighted bestiary and blight elves supplements are great, especially the blight elves book. Lots of really nasty ideas (RP, plot, backstory, and mechanics) along with enough mechanics to make it well worth the price. Also, Reality Deviant Publications is a great publisher to deal with.
Reign of Discordia is an amazing setting with great support for Sci-fi, especially for space craft and cash rules. Another RDP products.
I'm unfamiliar with Interface Zero, since I don't own it, but what I've seen is impressive. If I was at all interested in cyper-punk then I'd snap this up and drool all over it. Once again, RDP greatness.
Nevermore is fun, and Dream conviction is cool, but it's not quite my cup of tea. Still a great book.
Caliphate Nights is beloved by many, but it's not my thing and the publisher has stopped supporting it; still a lot of neat ideas and some mechanics that still get mined by most posters on the True 20 forums.
Technothrillers is pretty good. A solid supplement for super-spies but only so-so for other modern genres. A lot of mixed reactions to the initial release, but RDP is good about updating and improving their existing products (and providing free updates to customers).
Darwin's World is Darwin's World. Not a lot that's new but a lot that's fun, and Vigilance always makes you rethink stuff.
Wild West is simple and solid. Not much new, and there didn't need to be. Good flavor, low on mechanics.
Legends of Excalibur is great but again, not a lot of new material. Little that you couldn't already do.
If you just intend to mine for generic characters and adventures, then probably Blood Throne and Interface Zero will be your best purchases, giving you a really wide variety of supplemental mechanics. But as you can see, it's difficult to narrow it down to just those two, and I'm continually tempted to suggest other works as well.

[Logos7]

I was rather impressed with M&M to tell you the truth.

If your looking for a crunchy Super's Game, I think M&M's is totally the way to go.

If your looking for anything else, I would suggest true20, or any of the other amazing games out their. It seems to me that you really have to buy into M&M premise a lot or else you will be tempted to try to change bits of it and that will lead you to the darkside of epic fail . (Just from my own experiance)

M&M also strikes me as having a lot of the same aesthetic as 4th edition (such as the bold colour boxes and the seeming powers vs. class build of the whole system. IF that floats your boat, thats great otherwise its another strike against M&M.

Hope that helps

<L

[Dannyalcatraz]

There is a True 20 supplement called Eldritch Sorcery, I believe. I picked it up on a recommendation that it would help me achieve a campaign design goal- namely letting PCs design their own spells.

That it does, and well too! (Ultimately, though, it didn't do precisely what I needed, but I keep it on hand for reference.)

As for M&M, I'm not going to duplicate any suggestion above.

I've recently been told they're doing a supplement that will do for M&M what Fantasy HERO did for HERO. If so, that's going to be dang good news to me and to a lot of others out there.

M&M for Fantasy

[Relique du Madde]

If you love Mutants and Masterminds 2e then ULTIMATE POWER is a must buy. It takes all the powers from the standard rule book and expands on them greatly.

[Knightfall1972]

For True20, I recommend the True20 Bestiary. It's full of all sorts of awesomeness.

For Mutants and Masterminds, I don't have a suggestion, since I too am unsure of which M&M books to get.

[Knightfall1972]

Originally Posted by ValhallaGH

Darwin's World is Darwin's World. Not a lot that's new but a lot that's fun, and Vigilance always makes you rethink stuff.

There's a True20 version of Darwin's World?

Cool.

Is it print or PDF?

[Jeff Wilder]

Thanks for all the thoughts, folks. I appreciate it. (I'll keep an eye on this thread until I make my purchases, so if more folks want to chime in, please do.)

[ValhallaGH]

Originally Posted by Relique du Madde

If you love Mutants and Masterminds 2e then ULTIMATE POWER is a must buy. It takes all the powers from the standard rule book and expands on them greatly.

Which is why I don't recommend it. Excepting the two or three power structures, some extras that shouldn't exist, and a couple powers that shouldn't exist, there's nothing in that book that doesn't already exist in the core book. If you're desperately in need of examples of how to build powers then it's okay. If you're not then don't bother.
I've been playing and running 2e for about 2 years, and after due consideration (including reading through most of the book) about four months into our first campaign, we decided that it was useless to us.


Knightfall1972, True20 Darwin's World is PDF.

[SilvercatMoonpaw2]

Interesting to note there is now a product called d20 Advanced Adventure Roleplaying Game that is basically the core rules for M&M plus the rules from the Mastermind's Manual plus the stuff from Ultimate Power—but with an interesting system where all the various conditions have been broken down into their component parts—rules inspired by sources such as Iron Heroes………really, it's like getting a couple M&M books with extra bits for less than $7.

Here's the rules wiki if you want to preview:
http://d20advanced.a.wiki-site.com/i...p/D20_Advanced

[Brutorz Bill]

I'm relatively new to M&M 2nd ed. and True20 myself, I asked some similar questions and poked around a bit. What folks have stated earlier is spot on.
For M&M I've found Instant Super Heroes to be extremely helpful it has alot of the standard comic archtypes to utilize, either as PC's or as Bad guys. Very helpful. Freedom City is also a great setting and full of examples to use in your own Campaign.

As to True20 if your looking for some really nasty, dark twisted elves that eat Drow for breakfast, try out Blight Elves. Not for the faint of heart!
If your running a True20 Fantasy Campaign, the Fantasy Paths supplement is a great tool for showing how you can build characters that emulate the 3.x classes, but there is soo much more you can do with the character building options of True20. I got the True20 Bestiary in PDF, now I want it in book form just for ease of use at the table.

I'm planning on picking up Reign of Discordia and Interface Zero myself.
Good Gaming,

[Knightfall1972]

Originally Posted by ValhallaGH

Knightfall1972, True20 Darwin's World is PDF.

Yeah, I just took a look at RPGObjects' website and noted that it was a PDF. Now the question becomes do I buy the regular version of Darwin's World 2 (if I can find it) or simply buy the True20 Survivor's Guide PDF and use it with the Darwin's World 2 Campaign Guide.

Does anyone know if RPGObjects is planning to create a True20 version of Terror of the Twisted Earth?

[Brutorz Bill]

Originally Posted by Knightfall1972

Yeah, I just took a look at RPGObjects' website and noted that it was a PDF. Now the question becomes do I buy the regular version of Darwin's World 2 (if I can find it) or simply buy the True20 Survivor's Guide PDF and use it with the Darwin's World 2 Campaign Guide.

Does anyone know if RPGObjects is planning to create a True20 version of Terror of the Twisted Earth?

I REALLY Wish and Hope they will!!!!!
A True20 Version of Terrors of the Twisted Earth would ROCK!!!