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General RPG Rules Discussion[WAS CALLED "Pathfinder/OGL/D20 GAMES"] Discuss the rules of Pathfinder, d20 Modern and any other game except D&D, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, and the like.
I've seen quite a few folks saying "I've been working on a new version of D&D" or something similar. I thought it might be nice to get them all together, pool ideas, and provide a collaborative environment, rather than let everyone work in isolation and reinvent the wheel sixteen different ways. So, if you're doing revisions (large or small), sound off. If there's enough interest and enough people, maybe we can get a group going.
(BTW, my revision, Project Phoenix, is about 90% of the way to an Alpha release. There's a link in my sig.)
__________________ The Brood OGC Wiki. All kinds of material for 3.5 and our homebrew world of Shtar. Project Phoenix. A new take on D&D - 3.75, if you will. Society of 3.5 Revisionists. A place for 3.5 designers to post and discuss their ideas.
Agamemnon: "Their process of building each edition atop the previous ones has resulted in 3.5 being the Michael Jackson of RPGs, desperately improving itself to ward off obsolescence but attaining only a kind of perverse lichlike state as a mockery of healthier games."
I am doing a ton of mashups using Saga Edition as the base -- see my sig. Right now I'm working on a "Monster Manual"-style document for use across the board, then I'll be doing a kind of Saga D&D merge/revision of the S&S Saga ruleset.
-The Gneech
__________________ gneech.com -- My writing, comics, and art, including NeverNever, The Suburban Jungle, and the Brigid & Greg Fictionlets.
"Not everybody likes the same sort of games.
Everybody ought to play the sort of games they like.
It's not a stupid idea to sometimes try something you're not sure if you like or not.
Just because somebody likes or dislikes something you feel differently about doesn't make them (or you) stupid or a jerk.
Except Julie Andrews. If you dislike Julie Andrews, you're a jerk. And Golden Retriever puppies." --Barsoomcore
"There is a handsome and mysterious stranger in your future. He will try to kill you and take your stuff." --Sejs
Actually, I have two of the bloody things: 'Oldskoolising' and streamlining [mainly] 3e on the one hand - this is my more recent project, an ongoing thingy - and my former pet Frankenstein, the '3e++' monstrosity I was in fact using for GMing purposes, for a while there.
The group - and maybe a wiki too? - sounds like an intriguing idea.
I probably count, although I don't think of it as "working on a new version of D&D" so much as "trimming the fat and simplifying the rules". They're essentially the same thing, of course.
"I do not believe that hobbyists and casual players should be continually barraged with new rules, new systems, and new drains on their purses." - Gary Gygax, 1979
I'm still working on Tale of the Twin Suns which is OGL complaint, but a new system in its own regard. The power is amped up a couple of notches and new take on Incarnum coupled with racial and class abilities allows PCs to be the equivalent of a superhero in regards to standard fantasy roleplaying.
Anyone know how to set up a group? Maybe if we get something going, we could attract some folks who are still playing/designing 3E, and get more focused feedback. I know there are lots of them out there, but when I post something in House Rules, I don't usually get a lot of comments.
__________________ The Brood OGC Wiki. All kinds of material for 3.5 and our homebrew world of Shtar. Project Phoenix. A new take on D&D - 3.75, if you will. Society of 3.5 Revisionists. A place for 3.5 designers to post and discuss their ideas.
Agamemnon: "Their process of building each edition atop the previous ones has resulted in 3.5 being the Michael Jackson of RPGs, desperately improving itself to ward off obsolescence but attaining only a kind of perverse lichlike state as a mockery of healthier games."
Anyone know how to set up a group? Maybe if we get something going, we could attract some folks who are still playing/designing 3E, and get more focused feedback. I know there are lots of them out there, but when I post something in House Rules, I don't usually get a lot of comments.
Yeah, as I alluded to in an earlier post, I've been SLOWLY grinding away on my own "3.75".
After a lot of crunching (in my head), I have settled (for the time being) on a Saga-ized DnD 3.x....that's Star Wars....not Dragonlance...
I am incorporating elements from 4e...my group and I opted for.....NOT....4e. But there are many great refinements that port right over, or at least the idea...just like 3.5 was.
Later
__________________ "My blood is my oath, my oath is my life"
Yeah, as I alluded to in an earlier post, I've been SLOWLY grinding away on my own "3.75".
After a lot of crunching (in my head), I have settled (for the time being) on a Saga-ized DnD 3.x....that's Star Wars....not Dragonlance...
I am incorporating elements from 4e...my group and I opted for.....NOT....4e. But there are many great refinements that port right over, or at least the idea...just like 3.5 was.
Later
Cool. I'm not really familiar with SWSE, but I keep hearing it had a lot of good things in it. Some of those were adapted for 4E, too.
__________________ The Brood OGC Wiki. All kinds of material for 3.5 and our homebrew world of Shtar. Project Phoenix. A new take on D&D - 3.75, if you will. Society of 3.5 Revisionists. A place for 3.5 designers to post and discuss their ideas.
Agamemnon: "Their process of building each edition atop the previous ones has resulted in 3.5 being the Michael Jackson of RPGs, desperately improving itself to ward off obsolescence but attaining only a kind of perverse lichlike state as a mockery of healthier games."
Yes, it does have much to offer. In fact, it is a refined combination of D20 Modern, and the first two Star Wars D20 versions. I even started doing a "Saga" conversion of the SRD way back in the summer of 2007, but I was derailed when WotC announced 4E......I wish I had kept going.
As you say, some elements are incorcorated into 4E, namely skills and combat...kind of. But, rather than being "adapted for 4E", this was actually the mid-point of development for 4E and, as I see it, Saga is really a covert playtest of some elements. Or else, just a cheap way of coming out with a fresh SW in the midst of deep R&D on 4E.
So much the better....they should have stopped there, and just refined what they had conceived. Anyway, I honestly don't know if I would contribute much to a "group", but I am willing to check it out. Let me know if you start one....I dig using other peoples brains for crunching....crunch.
__________________ "My blood is my oath, my oath is my life"
Actually, after looking over the forum, it seems to be more for folks building their own worlds. I'm aiming more for generic "I want to/am doing a 3.75ish thing". I know there's a good bit of overlap, so if you don't mind those folks dropping in, that's cool. If not, I can create a second forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionoftheTriad
Yes, it does have much to offer. In fact, it is a refined combination of D20 Modern, and the first two Star Wars D20 versions. I even started doing a "Saga" conversion of the SRD way back in the summer of 2007, but I was derailed when WotC announced 4E......I wish I had kept going.
Yeah, I started working on Project Phoenix in March, after I saw that 4E wasn't for me.
Quote:
As you say, some elements are incorcorated into 4E, namely skills and combat...kind of. But, rather than being "adapted for 4E", this was actually the mid-point of development for 4E and, as I see it, Saga is really a covert playtest of some elements. Or else, just a cheap way of coming out with a fresh SW in the midst of deep R&D on 4E.
I think they actually said that at one point - that Saga was a way to playtest some of the rules they were working on. So was MMV.
Quote:
So much the better....they should have stopped there, and just refined what they had conceived. Anyway, I honestly don't know if I would contribute much to a "group", but I am willing to check it out. Let me know if you start one....I dig using other peoples brains for crunching....crunch.
My aim is really to just get a bunch of folks with similar interests together so they can bounce ideas around, feed off each other, and generally benefit from other people doing similar things, usually for their own projects. It's not intended to be "everyone working toward the same end", just a free-form, "if you still do 3.5 design, we've got someplace you can go".
__________________ The Brood OGC Wiki. All kinds of material for 3.5 and our homebrew world of Shtar. Project Phoenix. A new take on D&D - 3.75, if you will. Society of 3.5 Revisionists. A place for 3.5 designers to post and discuss their ideas.
Agamemnon: "Their process of building each edition atop the previous ones has resulted in 3.5 being the Michael Jackson of RPGs, desperately improving itself to ward off obsolescence but attaining only a kind of perverse lichlike state as a mockery of healthier games."
This is my first post, i'm a total noob
I would like to create an alternative 3.5 system (going further than pathfinder, that is eliminating the retro-compatibility clause).
ATM i'm trying to create a new system, based on the d20. It is called Heart20 (H20, never had a knack for good names), and the project is hosted here. Altough there is the problem for the most of you... The site is italian, but i can translate the basic ideas for you if you are interested.
__________________ The Brood OGC Wiki. All kinds of material for 3.5 and our homebrew world of Shtar. Project Phoenix. A new take on D&D - 3.75, if you will. Society of 3.5 Revisionists. A place for 3.5 designers to post and discuss their ideas.
Agamemnon: "Their process of building each edition atop the previous ones has resulted in 3.5 being the Michael Jackson of RPGs, desperately improving itself to ward off obsolescence but attaining only a kind of perverse lichlike state as a mockery of healthier games."
I was doing this for years, then realized "Hey! There are hundreds of RPG systems already out there!" which was quickly followed by "Hey! Why design my own system, when I can pick one of those and actually get busy playing games?" and, finally, "Screw this! I'm going to go play some games!"
I was doing this for years, then realized "Hey! There are hundreds of RPG systems already out there!" which was quickly followed by "Hey! Why design my own system, when I can pick one of those and actually get busy playing games?" and, finally, "Screw this! I'm going to go play some games!"
Yeah, I know... but I'm a compulsive tinkerer. If I didn't have something to work on, I'd go nuts. Besides, someone's got to design all those games you play!
__________________ The Brood OGC Wiki. All kinds of material for 3.5 and our homebrew world of Shtar. Project Phoenix. A new take on D&D - 3.75, if you will. Society of 3.5 Revisionists. A place for 3.5 designers to post and discuss their ideas.
Agamemnon: "Their process of building each edition atop the previous ones has resulted in 3.5 being the Michael Jackson of RPGs, desperately improving itself to ward off obsolescence but attaining only a kind of perverse lichlike state as a mockery of healthier games."
Yeah, I know... but I'm a compulsive tinkerer. If I didn't have something to work on, I'd go nuts. Besides, someone's got to design all those games you play!
I was doing this for years, then realized "Hey! There are hundreds of RPG systems already out there!" which was quickly followed by "Hey! Why design my own system, when I can pick one of those and actually get busy playing games?" and, finally, "Screw this! I'm going to go play some games!"
Hmmm... I'm still in the designing phase. It's the questing perfectionist mentality, I think; "there must be a better system/version/method/way... and if I can't find it, I'll just have to create it."
Of course, this same mentality leads me to powergame, and probably contributed to the destruction of my gaming group ("Hey guys, let's try a new system!" "Another one?!"). So, since I can't play alone, I guess I'll just have to design some more. Hooray infinite loop! Maybe one of these days I'll come up with something worth publishing... presently working on a classless scifi system (though I imagine 'twould be easy to port to fantasy).
Hmmm... I'm still in the designing phase. It's the questing perfectionist mentality, I think; "there must be a better system/version/method/way... and if I can't find it, I'll just have to create it."
Of course, this same mentality leads me to powergame, and probably contributed to the destruction of my gaming group ("Hey guys, let's try a new system!" "Another one?!"). So, since I can't play alone, I guess I'll just have to design some more. Hooray infinite loop! Maybe one of these days I'll come up with something worth publishing... presently working on a classless scifi system (though I imagine 'twould be easy to port to fantasy).
Of course, there's a big risk here: You _must_ play the game. The original 3E design team remarked a few times (for example, Monte Cook) that they were surprised to learn that many TSR designers didn't actually play that much, and that this was not an uncommon attitude among designers at that time.
I fear that too many home-brewers, tinkereres and self-designers are forgetting that someone has to actually play their game, and that they are losing usability, playability or player and DM motivatations out of sight while striving for the perfect game system. It can be quite annoying having to find a system that makes the designer, the DM and the players happy. And the worst thing is - you probably always end with compromises and things that make someone a little unhappy. Maybe by not playing and just designing you find the perfect system for yourself, but what about other players? And at what point do you "call it a day" and decide "this is the ruleset I am gonna try?"
Of course, there is no need to really come up with something will be actually played, or be played by more then you and a handful of friends or groups.
And it's not my business to worry about the headaches of others. And it's not as if all my fears come true (contrary to several nightmares, I still haven't figured out that I actually still have to make a final course to actually get my diploma in computer sciences, and stuff like that ). But just keep an eye out for this to happen.
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Formerly Known As Frukathka 
Yeah, I know... but I'm a compulsive tinkerer. If I didn't have something to work on, I'd go nuts. Besides, someone's got to design all those games you play! 
). But just keep an eye out for this to happen.
Linear Mode
