Song of ice and fire

[TerraDave]

Surprised to not see any threads on this, or maybe I missed them...but the quick start rules are here:

http://grfiles.game-host.org/gr_files/SiF_Fastplay.pdf

And, they are different...

Thoughts?




(Note: I don't actually know much about the books, except they are supposed to be really good...)

[Agamon]

I think you did miss them. Unless by different, you mean they're different than the quick play rules they released for Free RPG Day?

[Remus Lupin]

Downloaded these. Haven't had a chance to play yet. Maybe one day ...

[Iron Sky]

I thought about getting them before since ASoIaF is my favorite fantasy series period... but just because they're great books doesn't mean that they're compatible with my roleplaying group.

I sat down and skimmed the RPG book in Hastings one day and the rules look like they'd portray the setting pretty well, but never bought it since I don't think we'd ever actually play it.

If you haven't read the books though, read them, if nothing else than for ideas on how to run political/noble intrigue in your games.

[Aus_Snow]

Originally Posted by Iron Sky

I sat down and skimmed the RPG book in Hastings one day

Neat trick. It's not out yet.

I take it you are probably referring to 'A Game of Thrones', the RPG book produced by Guardians of Order (who are no longer extant) a few years ago.

Different thing.

Or I suppose you could have skimmed the quick start rules. If so, never mind. Just drawing conclusions for fun if not profit.

As for the rules, I think they look promising. It's a break from what's come before, certanily. And this is a good thing. It'll play fast, I imagine.

[Iron Sky]

Poor assumption on my part. I assumed that he was talking about the old one - wasn't even aware there was a new one.

I opened the link he gave me in another tab, but then had to go before I looked at it.

Conclusion accurately drawn Aus

[TerraDave]

Ya, from different I meant "not d20" (or WHFRP?).

Is the system close to anything else out there? The "additive dice pool" is not one I know...but I don't know all d6/dice pool games.

[Stalker0]

After my initial read

Things I like:

1) The way bonus die works, and how specializations increase your consistency, but not your raw power.

2) The way players get to choose how they take injuries, and even how they yield.

3) That the victor gets to choose how you are defeated, leading to very cinematic opportunities.

4) The social combat system seems decently solid.

My dislikes.

1) Endurance seems way way too important in your overally survival. I can't say players going less than a 3 ever.

2) I'm not sure if the heavy armors DR is worth the huge penalty to your defenses.

3) The table for determines magnitudes of success aren't that intuitive.


Overall it seems pretty solid, I would love to give it a try sometime.

[Derro]

Originally Posted by Stalker0

After my initial read

Things I like:

I agree.

My dislikes.

1) Endurance seems way way too important in your overally survival. I can't say players going less than a 3 ever.

You're probably right but seeing as the default is 2 I don't see it being too much of an issue. Since the setting will be more condusive to socially based characters physical hardiness may not be as much of gem as in your usual adventuring type games. Of the six sample characters presented two have Endurance ratings of two. Both of them are definitely non-combatants, a septa and a magister.

2) I'm not sure if the heavy armors DR is worth the huge penalty to your defenses.

I've seen considerable debate over this and I'm still not convinced either way. I think that the numbers are probably pretty sound. If you look at the damage rating of weapons vs. the protection value of armors heavy armor is still fairly attractive. If anything this can be viewed as rules working toward the conventions of the setting. It is implausible to be wearing the heavier armors unless you are expecting a fight. I imagine this is in place to prevent the D&Disms of every other warrior type being fully decked out whatever the situation. If worse comes to worse, and the numbers are too high, the scale is short enough that you could knock a point off and still maintain a relative balance amongst the armors.

3) The table for determines magnitudes of success aren't that intuitive.

True. But like so many rules it becomes a matter of played familiarity after a while. Roll the dice enough and you start to get a feel for the results.

All in all I have high hopes for this game. At the very least it looks to be a good system for playing heavily political games of court intrigue and land grabbing. I think if I pick it up, and I probably will, Westeros will not be my setting of choice. As much as I've loved the books I can't imagine playing in that setting. There is so much canon and implications that it would just get really messy. Most of the people I game with have read the series and I can't even envision one game that wouldn't devolve into a debate over something in the novels.

And why not even a hint of a magic system in the quick-start? Not even a hint. I know it's a super low magic setting but, c'mon, just a taster would have been nice.

[Aus_Snow]

Originally Posted by Derro

And why not even a hint of a magic system in the quick-start? Not even a hint. I know it's a super low magic setting but, c'mon, just a taster would have been nice.

Yeah, in a way.

Still, there's a design journal entry, here, which provides some insight.

[Derro]

Originally Posted by Aus_Snow

Yeah, in a way.

Still, there's a design journal entry, here, which provides some insight.

Oh, hey, that's cool.

I see that's from December. I stopped checking updates near the end of October when it didn't show up.

I hope magic stays pretty loose. It's always been very loose in the novels. I've often read a passage and wondered if that was magic. Sort of like LotR in that way.

As an aside, I am very intrigued about the rules for managing your House and Realm. I think this game will make a big splash if these rules are solid and playable. Society and position are a major theme in the novels and the game really has to give it an accessible framework to be true.

[Jan van Leyden]

I love their stab at a social encounter system, but at the same time it puts the finger on a weak point: how could one play the game with a whole group of players?

Take the supplied characters. They belong to one house and have a very good reason to travel together. As soon as the group reaches King's Landing and enters the court, it falls apart. SIF's emphasis on social status means that only certain characters may enter certain parts of the world.

How do you plan to work with (or around?) this assumption?

[ValhallaGH]

Originally Posted by Jan van Leyden

I love their stab at a social encounter system, but at the same time it puts the finger on a weak point: how could one play the game with a whole group of players?

I would guess that you'd do it by violating every D&D party guideline, ever, and splitting the party into individuals all seeking the betterment of their common house.
Each character sticks with their own approach to the situations in the capitol, and occasionally informs the others about their progress and current status. As necessary, individuals journey to exploit or create opportunities that further both their own schemes and those of their fellows. But, as with the novels this system is inspired by, the characters spend a great deal of time separated in person but not in spirit.

It would be tricky, and cyclical, and you'd probably have to limit each character to no more than 20 consecutive minutes of screen time. Communication, both in and out of character, would be paramount to both success and survival.

It would work, but it wouldn't work for all tables. It might not work for most tables. But it would work.

[Jan van Leyden]

Originally Posted by ValhallaGH

I would guess that you'd do it by violating every D&D party guideline, ever, and splitting the party into individuals all seeking the betterment of their common house.
Each character sticks with their own approach to the situations in the capitol, and occasionally informs the others about their progress and current status. As necessary, individuals journey to exploit or create opportunities that further both their own schemes and those of their fellows. But, as with the novels this system is inspired by, the characters spend a great deal of time separated in person but not in spirit.

It would be tricky, and cyclical, and you'd probably have to limit each character to no more than 20 consecutive minutes of screen time. Communication, both in and out of character, would be paramount to both success and survival.

It would work, but it wouldn't work for all tables. It might not work for most tables. But it would work.

Of cause, the idea of interwoven single (or two player) stories might work, but my table is not the place to try it. Not all players are "story active" on the same level, so the more active ones would have their time in the spotlight with the others waiting.

It might be quite stressfull for the GM, too. This system would demand a lot of coherent improvisation plus the need to get everything organised.

The more I think about it the less optimistic I am. Guess I'm having a look on how GR pulls it of with this adventure they're planning.

[variant]

The system is why I never posted about it. I don't like it at all much like I don't like games that use similar systems. The OGL system used in Guardians of Order's AGoT looks to be far superior.

[Derro]

Originally Posted by variant

The system is why I never posted about it. I don't like it at all much like I don't like games that use similar systems. The OGL system used in Guardians of Order's AGoT looks to be far superior.

I'm totally on the other end of that scale. While the GoO book was beautiful the sheer abundance of rules is what turned me off. There were elements that I liked, Influence springs immediately to mind, but overall it just felt like a re-skin of D&D to me. Because d20 based games tie power to level so closely it is, to me, harder to emulate some of the interactions of the novels when characters are so out-classed because of power levels.

Different strokes I suppose. I like dice pool systems. It is fun to throw around fistfulls of d6s.

[Tharen the Damned]

I had the honor to playtest the rules as narrator back in 07 (yep, this baby is a long time in the making). All I can say that the system is perfect for a gritty low/no magic medieval campaign. It fits hand in glove with the Song of Ice and Fire setting. It makes sense to wear heavy armor and it makes sense to wear light armor. It all depends what style you want to go. Picture this as the fight between the Mountain and the Viper. Both had the chance to win.

[Finkin Swiftfingers]

Green Ronin has announced that the book should finally be released next week. I've been looking forward to this since they first announced it - as our group had planned to start a campaign once it was released at GenCon. I am glad the wait is finally over.

I especially like the fact that the game is set 10 years before the events in the first novel. Plenty of room for the PC's to become movers in the world.