General RPG Rules DiscussionDiscuss the rules of any game except D&D or Pathfinder, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, d20 Modern, and the like.
I keep Green Ronin's "Ultimate Power" sourcebook in my Amazon Wishlist, which I check regularly.
Don't ask me how or why, but it showed as "in stock" during one of my checks, and I ordered it. I fully expected it to be a mistake, and to receive the standard "sorry, we were wrong" from Amazon after a period of time.
But I just got word it was shipped! Woo-hoo!
(It could still be a mistake, but it's much less likely now.)
And no ... I just checked Amazon, and it's back to being not in stock.
__________________ Jeff Wilder, San Francisco Bay Area If your sig is longer than your posts, your sig is too
long. Nobody reads it, they just get annoyed by it. And if you bore me, you lose your soul to me. - Belly
Right now they are still listing one available copy. I put an order in and it still says there is a copy. I have a feeling it's not real accurate at this point.
Pocket UP is going to be updated to correspond to the known errata, it's in black and white, and it's a different size. Other than that, it's the same as the original book. I think I saw a July release date on one website.
Yeah, as I understand it, they will probably reprint the full-cover hardback UP later, after all the new, expensive to print stuff (e.g., full color hardcovers, box sets -- ASoIaF Campaign Setting, Dragon Age, etc.) is out.
I bought the last two copies GR had at Gen Con last year, for a couple of guys in my group that just started playing M&M. I think I'd just paid for 'em when Psion walked up to get a copy . . .
__________________ - Bob Huss
[H]e's dead and poisoned and possibly insane on another plane. It's a very stylish death, but a definitive one. - Piratecat
Congrats on scoring a copy. From what I hear, UP has been out of print for quite a while, as it seems "when is it going to be reprinted?" was a popular question on a few different message boards.
That book served me in good stead during my days spent enmeshed in M&M, and I agree with quite a few other folks that if Green Ronin ever does a "Super Deluxe M&M Core Book," they should just replace the default Powers section with Ultimate Power, particularly the section on designing new powers.
I got lucky and scored a copy off RPG.net last year for about $20 in great shape. Insane, since all the copies then listed on Amazon.com were sitting at $150+.
That book served me in good stead during my days spent enmeshed in M&M, and I agree with quite a few other folks that if Green Ronin ever does a "Super Deluxe M&M Core Book," they should just replace the default Powers section with Ultimate Power, particularly the section on designing new powers.
I bet you the majority of M&M's players would happily sell of a portion of their soul, or someone else's to have that book be put into print.
I bet you the majority of M&M's players would happily sell of a portion of their soul, or someone else's to have that book be put into print.
You couldn't tell by me.
I always thought of Ultimate Power as a crutch for the unimaginative (no offense meant to anyone reading this, just stating my opinion). The only thing useful I found in there was the replacement for Alternate Form (Container), which I was halfway to house-ruling into existence, anyway.
As for problems, I've noticed that a lot of recent products have Ultimate Power alternate powers and power feats with no translation for folks that don't have that book. That makes the characters and power sets almost useless for many customers. This is especially egregious given that these abilities can be built using the core powers, flaws, and extras (with one or two new flaws or extras required), maximizing utility to all customers.
The entire green section is just examples of how to build powers. No mechanical benefit at all, just inspiration for people that haven't figured out the power building system yet.
Overall, I'm glad the silly thing is out of print. I wish it would stay there.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by keteryck, on Iron Heroes
You are not your magic weapon and armor. You are not your spell buffs. You are not how much gold you have, or how many times you've been raised from the dead. When a Big Bad Demon snaps your sword in two, you do not cry because that was your holy avenger. You leap onto its back, climb up to its head, and punch it in the eye, then get a new damn sword off of the next humanoid you headbutt to death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeapThaumaturgist
"Home" is what you defend with your life ... from ninjas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalker0
Minions are a convenience, a way to allow a dm to run many guys with little effort, and a chance for players to really strut their stuff. They are not so that Bobo the clown can kill the legion of the damned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf Ratbane
Victory should come like the dawn, not like a light switch.
Spoiler:
Hate skill ranks? Try Sadrik's Fix.
Interested in Blood Throne? Find out more.
I think you are looking at it the wrong way. It is a timesaver because even imaginitive people have jobs and families and can't always sit down and create what they need.
I agree with quite a few other folks that if Green Ronin ever does a "Super Deluxe M&M Core Book," they should just replace the default Powers section with Ultimate Power, particularly the section on designing new powers.
We considered it, but combining those two books would give us a really big core book that we'd have to price at at least $50 and we weren't too keen on making the entry point for the game that much money.
__________________ Chris Pramas
Green Ronin Publishing
"Be Your Own Master" www.greenronin.com
You couldn't tell by me.
I always thought of Ultimate Power as a crutch for the unimaginative (no offense meant to anyone reading this, just stating my opinion).
I don't understand that view. It still provides you mechanics for building your own powers and tailoring those in the book. Maybe, you should try looking at all those powers as an aid to speed up character generation.
__________________ "The designers of the newest edition built so much reliance on rules right into the game, to make it easier to play. As one of those designers, I occasionally think to myself, 'What have we wrought?' " -Monte Cook
" If the DM has to make a lot of judgment calls, the game is more difficult to learn. However, it's my belief that it's also more satisfying." -Monte Cook
"Don't let rules replace good DMing skills"- Monte Cook
Congratulations, I guess.
I and another player in my group have had our copies. Plus, GR stated that they will be re-releasing it in a pocket guide format.
__________________ "The designers of the newest edition built so much reliance on rules right into the game, to make it easier to play. As one of those designers, I occasionally think to myself, 'What have we wrought?' " -Monte Cook
" If the DM has to make a lot of judgment calls, the game is more difficult to learn. However, it's my belief that it's also more satisfying." -Monte Cook
"Don't let rules replace good DMing skills"- Monte Cook
I always thought of Ultimate Power as a crutch for the unimaginative (no offense meant to anyone reading this, just stating my opinion).
*chuckles* Nooo, why would anyone take offence at that? But, by all means, you are entitled to your opinion of the book. Even if I happen to disagree completely with your analysis (if not vehemently; I just don't care enough for that).
Quote:
Overall, I'm glad the silly thing is out of print. I wish it would stay there.
But how you got from there to here. . . does the book really offend your sensibilities so much that you would wish it out of existence (or further proliferation, anyway) when, well, it must be perfectly clear to you that many M&M GMs and players have had, and will most likely continue to have, good results from using it? Unless this was an elaborate jest/trolling, and I'm just missing the point. . .
*shrug* Oh well, either way, good score Jeff - the prices I've seen lately have been pretty horrific.
*chuckles* Nooo, why would anyone take offence at that?
I realized it was a bit inflammatory, and I'm not looking to start anything, but since I chose to state my opinion (it was the soul-selling comment that finally made me break silence) I wanted to state it as clearly and completely as I could. Which required that wording, and my desire not to start things required a caveat.
Now the real reason I chose to respond to your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus_Snow
But how you got from there to here. . . does the book really offend your sensibilities so much that you would wish it out of existence (or further proliferation, anyway) when, well, it must be perfectly clear to you that many M&M GMs and players have had, and will most likely continue to have, good results from using it?
By itself, no, it's not nearly enough of an issue to wish it out of existence. The problem comes with the wealth of products that (unnecessarily) use Ultimate Power notations and listings, making some of their best characters almost useless without that book, when they could use the core book alone to create the exact same powers. Example: Melt is a surprisingly common alternate power (for fire characters) in recent products. When all you see is "Melt", and you don't have UP, that's both confusing and useless. When you see "Alternate Powers: Melt (Corrosion; Extra: Ranged; Flaw: Limited to Objects only)" you can read that and use it using only the core book. It takes a little bit more time and effort to type and print but the shift in usability to the customer is phenomenal.
It's that not-so-subtle pressure to "go forth and buy Ultimate Power if you want to get full utility from the book you just bought" that really gets to me. The fact that UP is out of print (and more than the core book when you can find it) just adds that last little touch of perfectly deplorable.
I'd rather that Ultimate Power had never been published in the first place.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by keteryck, on Iron Heroes
You are not your magic weapon and armor. You are not your spell buffs. You are not how much gold you have, or how many times you've been raised from the dead. When a Big Bad Demon snaps your sword in two, you do not cry because that was your holy avenger. You leap onto its back, climb up to its head, and punch it in the eye, then get a new damn sword off of the next humanoid you headbutt to death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeapThaumaturgist
"Home" is what you defend with your life ... from ninjas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalker0
Minions are a convenience, a way to allow a dm to run many guys with little effort, and a chance for players to really strut their stuff. They are not so that Bobo the clown can kill the legion of the damned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf Ratbane
Victory should come like the dawn, not like a light switch.
Spoiler:
Hate skill ranks? Try Sadrik's Fix.
Interested in Blood Throne? Find out more.
Ultimate Power is a cool book. A friend of mine at Gen Con the year it was released scored a copy for me and had Steve Kenson sign it for me. How cool is that!
As for problems, I've noticed that a lot of recent products have Ultimate Power alternate powers and power feats with no translation for folks that don't have that book. That makes the characters and power sets almost useless for many customers. This is especially egregious given that these abilities can be built using the core powers, flaws, and extras (with one or two new flaws or extras required), maximizing utility to all customers.
I agree with this criticism. Certainly, the pdf of Freedom's Most Wanted (which still hasn't been updated to correspond to the changes made in the printed version of the book) has this problem, and I believe Warriors and Warlocks has it as well.
However, it doesn't seem like this is GR's intention. It seems like some individual designers (FMW, for example, has a number of different designers) use UP too frequently when a core rules construct would be sufficient, and then this either doesn't get caught or gets caught but doesn't get corrected later.
![[BRAGGING] I got a copy of Ultimate Power!](http://www.enworld.org/forum/iconimages/general-rpg-rules-discussion/bragging-i-got-copy-ultimate-power_ltr.gif)
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
