General RPG Rules DiscussionDiscuss the rules of any game except D&D or Pathfinder, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, d20 Modern, and the like.
I have to say that the initiative system is perhaps one of, if not the, biggest reasons I don't try Savage Worlds. I play exclusively online, and have no idea how to convert it.
I have to say that the initiative system is perhaps one of, if not the, biggest reasons I don't try Savage Worlds. I play exclusively online, and have no idea how to convert it.
1d54, with 53 and 54 being jokers.
Alternatively, there are a few electronic card drawers out there. One or two of them may even work via chat programs, or whatever medium you use.
Finally, you could simply have everyone make Agility rolls at the beginning of each combat round; ties go to the better Agility. Slower, but keeps some of the randomness.
Last edited by ValhallaGH; 17th July 2009 at 05:57 PM..
Yep, online dice roller for the card draw would be an option (just order them from slowest = 1 to fastest = 54, and you can just use the numbers for your initiative order).
I would probably just grab the dice for Agility and Smarts, throw them together, ace if able, and then sum everything up.
Highest result goes first.
If you ace on both initial dice, you get the "+2 joker bonus", but you do not automatically go first.
I think that should work pretty well, even though it's a bit different to the card draw method.
Bye
Thanee
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Note that requiring double aces on the intial rolls makes dumb clumsy people more likely to get that effect, which is both different from the original system, and kind of weird.
d4+d4 = double ace 1 in 16; d6+d6 = 1 in 36; d8+d8 = 1 in 64. Drawing from a deck of 54, you've got a 1-in-27 chance, so smart and/or agile people have a lower than normal chance, too.
You might just have everyone roll d6+d4; then they have the same odds to double ace, and the odds are only a little higher than the normal system.
In any case, you'd probably want to come up with some alternatives for the edges that let you draw extra cards. Maybe extra dice, and take the best two. That'll do even weirder things to the odds of getting the joker effect, though.
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If you hop over to Welcome to Pinnacle's Weird Website! and their forums, I believe you'll find a few alternate initiative modes for those so inclined.
I've made few house rules with Savage Worlds, which is a welcome change from the usual for me
Wow. The real world distracts me for a few days and I return to find that the post has clearly not been forgotten. Ha.
I'm really enjoying all the banter on the topic.
So. I've settled on my first campaign being a low-magic fantasy sort of world, perhaps using the magic system from the Solomon Kane series to represent that sort of ..darker more insidious magic rather than "GLOMP! FIREBALL!"
I havent picked up the Shaintar ..or..whatever it's called.. book yet.. though I certainly need to. One thing I have noticed, just flipping through the core rules (I have the explorer's guide now) is that they don't seem too condusive to building different "Archetypal" characters. I also remember reading somewhere someone's comment that the system isn't great for creating "classic classes" in characters (Fighter, Ranger, etc etc as archetypes.) Has anyone had any experience with this, opinions on it or work-arounds they've homebrewed, etc?
*Also - given the more.. minimalist approach to weapon stats that I've seen so far.. any suggestions if one were to incorporate more weapon variety into it? One thing I do miss is in games like The Riddle of Steel and other more period researched works (Like the excellent Codex Martialis for d20) how many different weapons there are that all have different advantages, disadvantages, and purposes. I don't necessarily want to over-complicated the beautiful simplicity the game has to bother.. but it would be nice if a norse-pattern broadsword and a scimitar have different qualities, given how different the two weapons actually were.
Look forward to hearing from you!
Last edited by Eisenhiem; 21st July 2009 at 05:10 AM..
Reason: *adding something
I'm not a big SW maven, but it doesn't seem to me like there's a lot of mechanical space to differentiate amongst weapons like scimitar vs. broadsword vs. falchion vs. khopesh vs. ...
Maybe there's stuff in one or more of the toolkits or Companions, though.
__________________ - Bob Huss
[H]e's dead and poisoned and possibly insane on another plane. It's a very stylish death, but a definitive one. - Piratecat
I'll disagree with you on the ease of making archetype characters. The Profession edges go a long way towards giving you that feeling, as they basically reward you with a "class ability"-esque thing if you build part of your character one way.
Certain character types are *far* easier to build as archetypes: if you take the Elderly Hindrance it's far, far easier to start with the very useful Wizard professional edge.
As to the weapons, well... Hammers, axes, flails, swords, and staves are all very different from each other already, but I think it's a little much to ask for more sword differentiation than short/long/bastard/lightsaber. Remember that they're covering a lot of genres and time periods in the basic core rules.
The soon-to-be-released Fantasy Companion will be adding more weapons useful in a fantasy setting, though.
I'm not a big SW maven, but it doesn't seem to me like there's a lot of mechanical space to differentiate amongst weapons like scimitar vs. broadsword vs. falchion vs. khopesh vs. ...
Actually, between parry bonuses and penalties, die size, armor penetration (including limiting it to certain forms of armor or use), the ability to mitigate or exacerbate shields, and some other features I'm blanking on, I'd say SW has more differentiation room than 3.X ever did.
Examples:
Broadsword: 1d8.
Rapier: 1d4, +1 Parry, AP 1 vs flexible armors (leather or chain).
Kopesh: 1d6, Ignore up to 2 points of shield parry.
Scimitar: 1d6, AP 2 while mounted (or similar leverage).
Flachion: 1d8+2, -1 Parry, 2-hands.
Katana: 1d6+2, AP 2. <- Super-awesome sword.
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You are not your magic weapon and armor. You are not your spell buffs. You are not how much gold you have, or how many times you've been raised from the dead. When a Big Bad Demon snaps your sword in two, you do not cry because that was your holy avenger. You leap onto its back, climb up to its head, and punch it in the eye, then get a new damn sword off of the next humanoid you headbutt to death.
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Quick question for you - do you still play True20? I abandoned True20 for Savage Worlds, which is why I don't post on the t20 forum anymore.
I enjoyed True20 as baby steps away from a d20 system, but it just seems like SW has just as much flexibility without as much baggage and design time(ie. SW monsters are way faster to genereate than t20 ones)
Mostly, I play Mutants & Masterminds at this time. I'm also in an original Deadlands: Hell on Earth campaign. Gamers generally end up playing what the people we play with are willing to play.
Savage Worlds, D&D 4E, and a number of other systems have the right idea when it comes to designing opponents. Give them what they should have, no more and no less, and set them upon your players. With some decent guidelines, or a fair amount of experience, it's easy to get an idea of just how challenging a given foe will probably be.
Oftentimes, my SW monsters look like a hybrid of 4e and SW - they have the easy statting of SW, with 1-2 signature abilities, sometimes with recharges.
Converting from the 4e MMs to SW is quite simple, I find, as long as one remembers that you're converting from a level-based system to one with a more flattened power curve.
I have to say that the initiative system is perhaps one of, if not the, biggest reasons I don't try Savage Worlds. I play exclusively online, and have no idea how to convert it.
I'm not a big SW maven, but it doesn't seem to me like there's a lot of mechanical space to differentiate amongst weapons like scimitar vs. broadsword vs. falchion vs. khopesh vs. ...
Maybe there's stuff in one or more of the toolkits or Companions, though.
I think you will not be happy with the SW rules if you are too concerned about the weapons and their individualness within the rules.
By the rules:
A long sword is synonymous with a scimitar broad sword would be too (note this last weapon type is not even included in the last two versions of D&D)
the falchion would be a great sword and a khopesh could be like a flail (in fact it looks like flail is misplaced under blade sue to the fact it was a khopesh before...).
So if you are looking for distinctive mechanics for every nuance of weapon this is not the game you are looking for but if you want every weapon you could ever consider and you don't mind putting the mechanics to other weapons (ala a katana is a bastard sword in 3e) then this is the game for you.
Thanee, I've been wondering about your Wild Die house rule. What do you guys do for Ability rolls? Double Ability dice? d6 Wild Die? Something else?
Standard d6 Wild die for ability rolls. The house rule is only for skill rolls.
@coyote6: Yeah, the double acing would be a bit weird, true. Not necessarily bad, though. Those would need the luck more, most likely.
The "dice rolling" variant wasn't meant to perfectly emulate the existing method. That would be achieved by the d54 method (ties would have to be rolled again, of course, since you cannot "draw" the same card multiple times ).
Bye
Thanee
__________________
In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!
In Memoriam Dave Arneson ( April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax ( March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
I have to say that the initiative system is perhaps one of, if not the, biggest reasons I don't try Savage Worlds. I play exclusively online, and have no idea how to convert it.
Savage Worlds is porbaly my favorite system. The core rules cover just about all that you need. That said, the extra books that Pinnacle has are fantastic. The tool kit series for fantasy, sci-fi, horror, and pulp are fairly cheap- as they should be being pdfs- and they add a lot of depth to the system.
The "adventure deck" supplement made me very nervous, as they give the players the ability to manipulate the game in ways that the gm may not be ready for. In play, it is awsome, and really challenges me as a Gm.
The system has picked up many good licensees in the past year or so.
For those that say are disapointed with the way that the base game does super powers, Daring Entertainment (Daring Entertainment) has a fantastic game "Dawn of Legends" that has a supers system that is rich and detailed. They have done a lot or stuff for M&M, by the way.
Pinnacle also has a licensed Save Worlds version of Space 1889 coming out later this year. Welcome to Pinnacle's Weird Website!
Ya gotta love that!
The basic, fundamental draw to the system is that you can run your cool and wacky homebrew campaign world with little to no fuss, rather than trying to shoehorn D&D/d20 into a job it wasn't meant to do.
Pirates, Westerns, James Bond-style secret agents, Mad Max, steampunk, Aliens, the list goes on...
SW by far is my favorite system as well. I am going to be running S1 Tomb of Horrors, I also have a modern ops style game, I also am playing in a sundered skies game and I have been converting my fantasy setting to the rules. Not to even mention the myriad of one-shot games on their website that I have printed out and ran with the pregens an hour before game night. I simply cannot say enough.
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