General RPG Rules DiscussionDiscuss the rules of any game except D&D or Pathfinder, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, d20 Modern, and the like.
So this game has been sitting on my shelf for a few years now and I've always been interested in playing. Good things come to those that wait I guess because finally I have some friends who seem not only interested in trying the game out, but actually gung-ho about it!
The setting and story and 'fluff' end of the game is very clear. But what about these rules? Going over the book again, giving it a thorough re-read I'm being reminded as to why this game probably has sat on the shelf for so long. Maybe without actually playing it and seeing the rules in action I am generating my own issues. Has anyone out there with experience in Ars Magica - 5th Ed have any suggestions, tips or comments on how to get a handle on the rules?
One thing for example that I wish was present with this game was more uniformity.. or maybe streamlined is the term I'm looking for. Seems like for a magi every task requires a roll of Casting Total + a series unique input numbers from various sources.
Seems like a lot to follow and keep up with but like I said, not having played the game maybe I'm biased as to how often these come up. Maybe 98% of the game is straight rolls.
Anyway I rarely see anything about this game on the forums. Wondering if anyone out there has any advice or comments. Thanks!
Funny you say that about the rules. My group really wanted to play it but had issues with the rules.
Anyway, it's actually not that bad.
Stamina + Form + Technique is pretty simple. It just requires you have a good knowledge of what the Forms do. Basically each magus isn't going to have high amounts in everything, so effectively you make a magus who is good at something. Look at the mages in the book. For the most part you have 'air' wizards, 'earth' wizards, 'illusion' wizards and so on.
It means that your wizard thinks in terms of what he can do with his chosen discipline. Its quite uniform like that; you always use Air to do stuff. Want to kill dudes? Suck the air out of a room.
So basically you have some forms you favor (Lets say Creo and Rego) and one or two techniques you favor (Lets say Auram and Ignem.) You are good at controlling and creating air and fire. No need to use all the other stuff.
You don't have to recalculate stuff all of the time then.
Also formulaic spells are great. Calculate your total one time. Finis. Use spell as neccesary. Either you cast it or you don't, and that's that.
Spontaneous spells are a little harder. The GM at least must be familiar with the spell creation rules, but it basically goes like this -
PC: I want to create fire!
GM: Okay (Looks in Creo Ignem part of the magic book) to create a fire is this level. You want to do it by touch or in voice range?
PC: Voice, I think.
GM: Okay, that means you have to hit level blah. Roll!
Basically the thing to remember with Ars is that Wizards need time to sit in their lab and study. Basically once a year hit them with a plot hook, then let them study it or finish it up.
The other thing to remember is wizards are squishy. Feel free to let them have shield grogs, or basically big tough dumb guys who stand in front of the wizard and go 'uh' everytime they get hit.
Thanks ArghMark for the reply. A follow up questions if your still around and willing:
About your last point and the vitality/combat potential of magi. What exactly makes them squishy? I'm still digesting the rules and have just briefly skimmed the non-magic combat section so I'm ignorant of the subject. I mean based on just the feel the book and rules gives, in my head I was thinking old, decrepit wizards that should not be involved with physical force. But for example one friend who is interested in playing thought a neat idea for a magi was one that could transmute his human arms into bear arms or some other strong animal and just run amok. I tried to explain that it wasn't really in theme of the game, but couldn't really, without knowing the rules more specifically point to any sort of real reason why it would be so.
I haven't played 5ed Ars Magica, but I have played 2nd and 4th and read the 5ed rules.
The system is very simple once you get used to it. There are, in effect two main skill systems - magic and everything else. It seems like a lot of information to digest, but in reality it is very manageable.
The rules for non-magic are very simple but effective, and the 'stress die' mechanism means that you can get some very big numbers occasionally. This can really throw a curve ball in to the action! (In a good way IMO).
The magic rules are extremely flexible, and are the main selling point of the system. Ars Magica models wizards like you see them in many novels - quite simply more powerful than everyone else!
This only works because of the Troupe style of play. Everyone has a wizard, a Companion and (usually) a grog (some groups share the grogs round, rather than having them owned by particular players). Wizards basically get more powerful by staying home and studying, so often people don't want to play their wizard character on an adventure. But the Covenant (in-character wizard group) will usually twist one wizard's arm and get them to go - that 'unfortunate' will usually rotate between adventures, so everyone gets their time in the spotlight.
It produces a completely different dynamic than pretty much any other RPG - I can't recommend it highly enough! The only thing to watch out for is that the game is really built around politics between the wizard PCs and the factions they belong to. Players should expect to disagree with the other players (in character) and actively plot against them. This is fun as long as you know what to expect and are mature enough to handle the concept.
I wouldn't say wizards can't be involved in combat.
It's a part of the rules that injuries take a long time to heal. Time to heal is bad for wizards because they can't really do anything else (!?). Regardless, being injured is for grogs.
Now, you could make a wizard who can do well in combat, but he'd have to have lots of 'you can't hit me!' type spells more than turning himself unstoppable. A wizard with a normal sword can do nasty things to a wizard with nothing, though - good mage killers.
I read ARsM /5e with the plan of running it. I found the rulebook reads like a really good summary of a set of rules that everyone else already knows rather than actually selling it to a new player or DM. But, I still intend to try to run it as some point. In the meantime, I paid for Metacreator for Ars Magica. I found out a lot about how the rules work by playing around with this - and it will track the details without you worrying about the details. Now, it only realy help generatre characters (it won't run a session for you!) but it does give some insight into the system.
__________________ Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh
About your last point and the vitality/combat potential of magi. What exactly makes them squishy? I'm still digesting the rules and have just briefly skimmed the non-magic combat section so I'm ignorant of the subject. I mean based on just the feel the book and rules gives, in my head I was thinking old, decrepit wizards that should not be involved with physical force. But for example one friend who is interested in playing thought a neat idea for a magi was one that could transmute his human arms into bear arms or some other strong animal and just run amok. I tried to explain that it wasn't really in theme of the game, but couldn't really, without knowing the rules more specifically point to any sort of real reason why it would be so.
The magi are not newcessarily squishy. In fact,, if you choose to dive in to the suppliments, the Flambeau School of Ramius specifically centers around buffing Magi to be martial monsters. (Although most magi have the self preservation instinct to research the spells at range touch and then let other people expose themselves to violence)
I love Ars Magica and would rather play it then pretty much any other (so-called) medieval fantasy RPG.
Alas, I have not played 5th Ed. as, IMHO, each edition after 3rd seemed to explain the rules is a more complicated fashion.
Also, I simplified the rules for spontaneous casting so that they work exactly how ArghMark described them but I'm able to figure difficulty levels on the fly a bit more. I slightly reduced the number of starting points a Wizard has to work with and increased it for Grogs and Companions so players could, if they wanted to, play in a slightly more D&D style*. Finally, in 3rd there was a clearer description (again IMO) of the various House wizards in an almost Template or archtype format. With this you can generate a character really quickly and then modify the points to customize them. If done right, this goes a long way toward making a wizard who can fight and not appear so fragile.
AD
Barking Alien
*One interesting idea my players and I came up with was instead of each player controlling a wizard and a small collection of companions, we had one player do that, one player only played a wizard and one only played a set of grogs and custos. The latter player didn't want to have to deal with all the "involved elements of being a wizard".
__________________ "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" Barking Alien
Last edited by The Green Adam; 24th August 2009 at 10:52 PM..
Reason: Added Material
There are different styles of play. My brother and I, 10 year veterans of that system, have decided we both absolutely hate the "you have 5 characters" part of troupe style of play. It sounds nice in theory, but we've never really had a good group to make all the multiple characters work. My brother is running a game now, and in his group, the main focus is on everyone playing their wizards, who go off adventuring while the grogs stay home. Realistic? Not exactly, but they all have fun.
The crunch of the rules can take a bti getting used to, but in reality, all the formulae in the game pretty much work like this:
I thought I might use this thread to ask this question as I can't seem to find it in the book. (5th edition).
Parma Magica gives 5x score in magic resistance. Okay.
With no Parma I use my form scores for magic resistance. Okay.
Do the two add together? So if I have 1 parma and 10 in ignem, do I now have 15 magic resistance against fire spells?
Another question. The Aegis of the Hearth says it 'Acts like the Parma'. So.. does it resist five times its level or just its level? Not too sure here.
Do the two add together? So if I have 1 parma and 10 in ignem, do I now have 15 magic resistance against fire spells?
Yes. Note that this only works for Parma and Form bonuses, so if you have magic resistance from another source, you don't add them together.
Quote:
Another question. The Aegis of the Hearth says it 'Acts like the Parma'. So.. does it resist five times its level or just its level? Not too sure here.
Just its level. Otherwise, the magic resistance would be absurdly high. Imagine a level 40 Aegis that gives 200 magic resistance.
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