General RPG Rules DiscussionDiscuss the rules of any game except D&D or Pathfinder, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, d20 Modern, and the like.
In one way or another, archaeologists, antiquarians and salvage teams have showed up in B5: Crusade, Star Trek, Stargate SG1, Buck Rodgers, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and countless other sci-fi shows and other fiction like the Known Space stuff by Niven and Brin's Uplift series.
I have been playing RPGs, mostly as GM, since '77 and the vast majority of the games I've run have been Sci-Fi/Space Adventure games. While Star Trek and Star Wars are indeed favorites (especially Star Trek), we've also spent a good deal of time with 2300 AD, Metal Head (Spacefaring Cyberpunk - like 2300 AD w/ Mecha), Red Dwarf, Space Opera, Star Frontiers, Starships & Spacemen, Traveller and probably a dozen more.
IMHO, Sci-Fi is far easier to sustain than Fantasy as in the latter I eventually run out of room, both physically and conceptually. The planet is only so big and while there is nothing to prevent you from going to other worlds (and certainly other planes are 'common' destinations), it eventually feels rehashed to me. How many times can you slay the dragon and save the princess/prince?
Sci-Fi (especially Space Adventure Sci-Fi) can, without going 'outside the universe', transport the PCs to an infinite number of locals for an infinite number of reasons. While my fellow posters have pointed out some great ideas and suggestions I'd like to analyze one in particular that has served me well repeatedly.
#2...
2. Troubleshooters.
PCs work for corporation or are freelancers for hire.
Pros: Supports “Adventuring Party” style play.
Cons: Characters are criminals/must work outside the law. Genre setting “conceits”, i.e. cyberpunk.
Why are the characters criminals in this concept. I thought that they work for a corporation. Aren't they licensed to troubleshoot?
In several Traveller campaigns I've run the PCs worked for a corporation set up by ex-Space Marines, Navy Officers and Scouts (you know, like the PCs are). Pulling in some favors the company's founders got the ok to imploy armed troubleshooters, vehicles and vessels to assist frontier worlds and corporations against pirates, in emergencey rescues, convoy escorts, apprehending criminals, etc..
You see, in certain frontier regions of the Galactic Imperium the Imperium's military forces are spread thin and can't always assist small outposts and fledgling independant colonies. That's where the corporation comes in. The drawback is that in exchange for their special privleges the corporation can be activated as military reserves in times of war (or really whenever the Imperial Government sees fit).
This set up allows the players to play pretty much any kind of character, gives them a steady paycheck with bonuses if they do well on their missions, allows them to rotate PCs if they wish (lots of people work for the company - if we're rescuing prospectors in an asteroid belt I'll leave my Marine home today and have them send my Belter. He's much better suited for this mission) and still in the end makes them the 'good guys'.
Its worked very well for me many times and I'm sure it can work for you. If you have any specific questions just ask.
Good luck,
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Barking Alien
__________________ "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" Barking Alien
I think part of my problem with sustaining sci-fi is I forget how damn broad it can be.
When I referenced corporate troubleshooters being criminals, ala cyberpunk, I should have categorized the constraint of the campaign I ran: it was a futuristic campaign set on Earth (a mash-up of Transhuman Space with sprinkles of the Trinity setting). My players didn't want to run a sci-fi campaign where they were the ship crew traveling to planet X for this weeks session.
In retrospect, I shouldn't have limited myself to always being in the high-tech society of Earth, but there you go.
Excellent suggestions from everyone, though. I can't thank everyone enough! (Oh, and keep 'em coming!)
If you look at the aforementioned Retrieval Artist books by Kristine Kathryn Rusch, Larry Niven's Rik Schumann or Gil Hamilton stories (collected in Draco Tavern and The Long ARM of Gil Hamilton, respectively), and you have examples of some adventures that could be run entirely on Terra for your troubleshooters. The same goes for Blade Runner.
Ditto Logan's Run or Wingrove's Chung Kuo novels- even if an arcologies aren't the norm for your world- is another model for a troubleshooter campaign or adventure. If it doesn't fit your general campaign world, it could still reflect a subterranean or even lunar colony adventure.
No. For my personal tastes I want space exploration, ship-based adventures, and starship combat. However, my primary group of players has never been satisfied with the transition from hero-level combat to starship combat. We just haven't found a system that suits gets them interested the way an old-fashioned gun fight does.
I've gotten better at incorporating different techniques to improve the situation and I'm currently reviewing the starship combat from my recently purchased Reign of Discordia.
Ultimately, though, I think they'd just rather be the "Away Team" and not have to dump feats, skills, etc. to be proficient in starship operations. Hence the focus on a planetary settings.
My son, on the other hand, I can completely see getting behind the idea of being a space jock blasting bad guys from a starfighter! He's still wet-behind-the-ears with Pathfinder but I plan to eventually run a sci-fi campaign for him as well.
There are entire settings (campaigns/novels/stories) in which the only weapons a civilian ship might have are improvised. The only ships capable of carrying ship-to-ship weapons- and their requisite targeting systems- are police/military vessels.
Instead, civilians in a fight rely on a mix of improvised weapons: mining lasers (high power/short range, easily aimed); anti-meteor systems (high power/long range, easily aimed); comm lasers (high power/long range, hard to aim); a ship's main thrusters (extremely high power/short range, hard to aim).
Without targeting systems, scoring a hit is next to impossible- more luck than anything else. And even the anti-meteor systems would have safeguards that would generally prevent the targeting of another ship...
Most combat between civilian spaceships, then, would be in the form of dock/ram & board. Essentially, the space combat of the forseeable future could be the same as the 1st century naval combat.
No. For my personal tastes I want space exploration, ship-based adventures, and starship combat. However, my primary group of players has never been satisfied with the transition from hero-level combat to starship combat. We just haven't found a system that suits gets them interested the way an old-fashioned gun fight does.
I've gotten better at incorporating different techniques to improve the situation and I'm currently reviewing the starship combat from my recently purchased Reign of Discordia.
Ultimately, though, I think they'd just rather be the "Away Team" and not have to dump feats, skills, etc. to be proficient in starship operations. Hence the focus on a planetary settings.
My son, on the other hand, I can completely see getting behind the idea of being a space jock blasting bad guys from a starfighter! He's still wet-behind-the-ears with Pathfinder but I plan to eventually run a sci-fi campaign for him as well.
It's possible that part of the difference is the dynamic between standard RPG combat and starship combat.
In standard RPG combat, all PCs are individuals, running around their individual way, with individual strengths and weaknesses, different styles, and different roles. Coordination is fast, loose, and occasionally nonexistent.
If everyone is piloting one starship into battle, then coordination is key. Everyone must act for the benefit of everyone, and not for themselves. A player that wants to be recognized for individual contributions might not enjoy this very much. However, it makes for an interesting and exciting new way of play.
One solution is to give each PC their own starship. That way, they all get to choose how to move, how to fire, etc. on their own. Coordination returns to the fast and loose, and mistakes by one PC only kill one PC.
However, even then, there might be resistance, if each star fighter is similar to each other star fighter. One PC might want the Big Gun, another might want to be Dodgy Stealth, etc. If this is the case, give every player the chance to customize their fighters. That way, the star fighters become their own PCs in space, with their own specialties.
But let's say you like the single-ship dynamic. You could run something similar to Voltron, say, and allow the PC fighters to work separately, but also join into some larger dreadnought that has more firepower and protection--but everyone must coordinate closely. Then, the players are incented to work together, because then they get to play with the bigger guns. But they don't have to.
Of course, one player will then ask, "What if I XYZ? Can I then use the Big Dreadnought Gun myself?" The answer, of course, is no.
No. For my personal tastes I want space exploration, ship-based adventures, and starship combat. However, my primary group of players has never been satisfied with the transition from hero-level combat to starship combat. We just haven't found a system that suits gets them interested the way an old-fashioned gun fight does.
I've gotten better at incorporating different techniques to improve the situation and I'm currently reviewing the starship combat from my recently purchased Reign of Discordia.
Ultimately, though, I think they'd just rather be the "Away Team" and not have to dump feats, skills, etc. to be proficient in starship operations. Hence the focus on a planetary settings.
My son, on the other hand, I can completely see getting behind the idea of being a space jock blasting bad guys from a starfighter! He's still wet-behind-the-ears with Pathfinder but I plan to eventually run a sci-fi campaign for him as well.
Well, it all depends on the tech involved. For example most SF setting have FTL drives that either only work from specific point to specific point (Jump Gates, Worm holes) or don't function deep inside stellar/planetary gravity wells. The entire point of these conceits is to set up situations where ship to ship combat can be forced. If ships can jump from anywhere it's basically impossible in interdict a planet or force a ship battle. So logically defenses in such a world would be the ground based fire-fight stuff your players love.
WRT #2 in many SF universes with FTL ships but not FTL comm (and even a few with it) you have the concept of law enforcment agents with limited oversight and vast power to follow and deal with criminal/corrupt/alien elements. This is actually a pretty common SF trope from the Lensman of E.E."Doc" Smiths series of the same name to the Spectres of the Mass Effect universe. Even in Dark Heresy your character are essentially henchmen for such a figure. Barrayaran Imperial Auditors are the same thing come to think of it. Also Jedi Knights. And the Judges from the Judge Dredd world.
__________________ -Andor
"Congratulations. You just invented 'negligent regicide.'" - Schlock Mercenary
I want to but haven't yet. Partially because I have too many games I want to get () and partly because I haven't heard much about it.
Care to review it or at least give us a quick rundown?
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Barking Alien
Diaspora is a FATE based "hard sci-fi" setting, which incorporates mini-games to handle things like social or squad based combat. It is very good stuff. You can check out the SRD here.
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“It only surprised me up until around 1977, ... I had thought we were going to have a considerable audience of gamers and science fiction and fantasy fans. I thought easily with those we'd have 50,000 or more [buyers], but when people began to write me [with questions] about what fantasy books to read, and I saw the wide range of both younger and older people who were attracted to the game, I understood that it was reaching a deeper chord, something deep within us.” – E. Gary Gygax (July 27, 1938 – March 4, 2008)
Earth makes mecha (some of them transformable!) with technology from a massive space cruiser that crash-lands on Earth. The alleged owners of said ship, who happen to be 40' tall aliens with their own array of warships, show up and try to reclaim it. It's Sci-Fi meets Top Gun!
Or, same style, different story - humanity is on the run from another band of alienss who infest Earth. Human use motorcycles that can transform into armored battlesuits and fight a guerilla war against the insurgents.
Come ON! This stuff is gold!
Even if you have "the war" as the backdrop, it's very easy to have the PC's involved in a non-mecha fashion (dealing with refugees, trying to live a normal life, mercs who sign themslves out as exterminators, ex-pats who are tired of seeing the world they fough for get crapped on, reporters, musicians, etc etc).
__________________ Cocoa and chocolate should not be considered a substitute for medications or your doctor’s advice.
Reference Andre Norton's Solar Queen series for excellent adventure plot ideas for space merchants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
One solution is to give each PC their own starship. That way, they all get to choose how to move, how to fire, etc. on their own. Coordination returns to the fast and loose, and mistakes by one PC only kill one PC.
However, even then, there might be resistance, if each star fighter is similar to each other star fighter. One PC might want the Big Gun, another might want to be Dodgy Stealth, etc. If this is the case, give every player the chance to customize their fighters. That way, the star fighters become their own PCs in space, with their own specialties.
But let's say you like the single-ship dynamic. You could run something similar to Voltron, say, and allow the PC fighters to work separately, but also join into some larger dreadnought that has more firepower and protection--but everyone must coordinate closely. Then, the players are incented to work together, because then they get to play with the bigger guns. But they don't have to.
Cowboy Bebop might be a better model for this... A tramp freighter turned into a medium-sized pocket carrier, carrying a handful of cobbled-together fighters launching from a converted cargo bay. One or two characters handle the "carrier", while everyone else zips around in the fighters.
It'd be a great basis for a privateering Q-Ship campaign.
__________________ The Pbartender
"I don't believe it. There she goes again! She's tidied up, and I can't find anything! All my tubes and wires and careful notes and antiquated notions..." - Thomas Dolby
It'd be a great basis for a privateering Q-Ship campaign.
Here's a neat campaign concept (if I do say so myself ) that I've used before.
The players are the crew of a Q-Ship in the employ of the Imperium/Federation/Space Government. While they appear to be spacers on a bulk frieghter or similar vessel, they are in truth highly skilled spies/military officers and the ship is equipped with hidden weapons, better defenses and maybe a small craft or two (starfighters or combat shuttles) in the cargo bay.
Their missions mostly deal with spying on enemy governments, stopping or infiltrating pirate groups and investigating abandoned spacewrecks/derelicts, etc. but any similar activity is within the realm of this type of operation.
Do a little research on the actual Q-Ships of World Wars I and II for some addition ideas.
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Barking Alien
__________________ "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" Barking Alien
Last edited by The Green Adam; 4th November 2009 at 08:45 PM..
Reason: Spelling
Here's a neat campaign concept (if I do say so myself ) that I've used before.
The players are the crew of a Q-Ship in the employ of the Imperium/Federation/Space Government. While they appear to be spacers on a bulk frieghter or similar vessel, they are in truth highly skilled spies/military officers and the ship is equipped with hidden weapons, better defenses and maybe a small craft or two (starfighters or combat shuttles) in the cargo bay.
Their missions mostly deal with spying on enemy governments, stopping or infiltrating pirate groups and investigating abandoned spacewrecks/derelicts, etc. but any similar activity is within the realm of this type of operation.
Do a little research on the actual Q-Ships of World Wars I and II for some addition ideas.
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Barking Alien
It is a very nice concept. One advantage that it has is that the players have direction (the DM can give missions) but a lot of independence in how they execute it. You can reward creative thinking about catching pirates or infiltrating bases. There is a reasonable way to introduce new players to the party and a nice mechanism to allow character retirement (reassignment).
For a possible example of a great setting check out David Webers Honorvers. There Humanity spread out by sublight ships and other slow means to thousands of worlds. Most of these colonies never did well with a large precentage actually failing some way or other.
The actual tech and situation is not the best for playing but it is a good example of how to create lots of single system worlds that need mercenaries for one thing or another.
Shadow Run is very sustainable. Our campaign lasted several years, and only ended because our DM went to medical school. The basic mechanics are quite robust, and it has perhaps the best group structure of any RPG (in terms of available player roles and group styles). You have the entire Earth as your playground, appetite for goods and gear is insatiable, you will never be the biggest on the block, and the horrible, horrible future is an endless fountain of plot.
Frankly, there is no better game for killing people and taking their stuff.
Of all the incarnations of Traveller, T20 is probably the best published. Even so, it, like D20 Modern Future, suffers from gear explosion, in that powerful gear dominates character abilities, and easily cycles out of control.
Burning Empires is a brilliant application of the Burning Wheel engine to a futuristic setting: think Warhammer 40K meets Battle Star Galactica. Very campaignable, but is an odd RPG, both because of its emphasis on character (as opposed to capability) and collaborative play. In a similar vein is Burning Jihad, a Dune clone using the Burning Wheel engine.
My current favorite is the Starblazer Adventure Game, an outgrowth of the FUDGE/FATE RPG Spirit of the Century. While both SotC and Starblazer excel at fast paced action on-the-fly, Starblazer is also designed with campaign play in mind, with rules for playing organizations, fleets, and empires. Starblazer is a very new game, so I'll have to see how things go in the longer term, but it looks sustainable.
I've found the main thing that crashes my previous science fiction campaigns is that once the players have attained a sufficient level of firepower, the game cycles out of control, as good gear is used to obtain better gear, and so on. The campaigns that have worked either keep gear under control (while still offering material rewards), or emphasize character(not power) development, or both.
Frankly, there is no better game for killing people and taking their stuff.
Of all the incarnations of Traveller, T20 is probably the best published. Even so, it, like D20 Modern Future, suffers from gear explosion, in that powerful gear dominates character abilities, and easily cycles out of control.
I've found the main thing that crashes my previous science fiction campaigns is that once the players have attained a sufficient level of firepower, the game cycles out of control, as good gear is used to obtain better gear, and so on. The campaigns that have worked either keep gear under control (while still offering material rewards), or emphasize character(not power) development, or both.
Smeelbo
See this may be why my SF games have lasted so long. They aren't about stuff. As GM I've moved the focus away from material gains (though they are still a factor). In truth, this has been true of all my campaigns since I first started playing D&D in '77.
Star Trek is perhaps the best example of a campaign setting where new and better stuff doesn't matter much (Voyager aside...). Everyone on the team has essentially the same gear - A Phaser, A Communicator and a Tricorder. Certain characters may have additional specialized gear such as tools for the Engineer and a med kit for the Doctor but largely new personal items or weapons are rare. Its not about that though. Its about learning, exploring and developing your character.
Even in my Traveller campaigns (classic Traveller, the others are just not my style), better gear gets the job done and its fun to get better gear but its just a means to an end. Getting better gear isn't the focus of the story. The game isn't about equipment.
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Barking Alien
__________________ "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" Barking Alien
Here is a campaign idea based on Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek: Voyager and a Japanese RPG called Paradise Fleet.
The players are soldiers, pilots and other military types aboard a small fleet of starships that has just finished a huge battle and helped to end an interstellar war (the enemy could be other humans, robots built by humans or even an alien enemy). Declared heroes and expecting an appropriate welcome when they return to Earth, the fleet is hit by a sabotage/booby trap explosion left behind by the defeated enemy. The explosion goes off the moment the FTL drive is activated and throws the main battleship (or the whole fleet if the drive is a 'Warp Gate') into a far flung part of the galaxy/universe.
Now the PCs have to fight or befriend unfamiliar aliens and stellar powers, explore unknown worlds, etc. in search of either the parts to repair their drive or find some way to return home. Non-combat characters are possible in the form of the ship's Cook, a War Correspondant/Reporter, a Diplomat/Ambassador type, USO style entertainers (Lynn Minmay anyone?) or any one of a thousand other options.
One of the coolest elements of this type of campaign is the main thing ST: Voyager forgot about. As the ship(s) go forth and get into battles, they have no real place to stop, repair, refeul and restock. Also, the ship(s) start the campaign having just finished a huge and brutal battle. Very likely the fleet is down on ammo, equipment and maybe even personnel. As the PCs find enemies, kill them and take their stuff, they are largely just replenishing the regular gear they and their comrades may be missing.
Plus the players will see real change in their campaign environment as their actions either improve the state of their vessel(s) or find that they are soon living in decaying and barely serviceable hulks.
Just some ideas that popped into my head as I prep for my next SF campaign, a rather twisted SF action-adventure-comedy I'll be starting next year.
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Barking Alien
__________________ "Never Give Up, Never Surrender!" Barking Alien
It's possible that part of the difference is the dynamic between standard RPG combat and starship combat.
In standard RPG combat, all PCs are individuals, running around their individual way, with individual strengths and weaknesses, different styles, and different roles. Coordination is fast, loose, and occasionally nonexistent.
If everyone is piloting one starship into battle, then coordination is key. Everyone must act for the benefit of everyone, and not for themselves. A player that wants to be recognized for individual contributions might not enjoy this very much. However, it makes for an interesting and exciting new way of play.
One solution is to give each PC their own starship. That way, they all get to choose how to move, how to fire, etc. on their own. Coordination returns to the fast and loose, and mistakes by one PC only kill one PC.
However, even then, there might be resistance, if each star fighter is similar to each other star fighter. One PC might want the Big Gun, another might want to be Dodgy Stealth, etc. If this is the case, give every player the chance to customize their fighters. That way, the star fighters become their own PCs in space, with their own specialties.
But let's say you like the single-ship dynamic. You could run something similar to Voltron, say, and allow the PC fighters to work separately, but also join into some larger dreadnought that has more firepower and protection--but everyone must coordinate closely. Then, the players are incented to work together, because then they get to play with the bigger guns. But they don't have to.
Of course, one player will then ask, "What if I XYZ? Can I then use the Big Dreadnought Gun myself?" The answer, of course, is no.
I think the main problem occurs when you have to split player character resources between space combat abilities and regular combat abilities (and possibly other abilities not related to combat). You have the Top Ace Pilot that flies the ship and fires the guns and all that, and the melee guy that ... hates space combat because he can't swing his plasma sword at anyone.
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) and partly because I haven't heard much about it.
) that I've used before. 
). Everyone on the team has essentially the same gear - A Phaser, A Communicator and a Tricorder. Certain characters may have additional specialized gear such as tools for the Engineer and a med kit for the Doctor but largely new personal items or weapons are rare. Its not about that though. Its about learning, exploring and developing your character. 
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