General RPG Rules DiscussionDiscuss the rules of any game except D&D or Pathfinder, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, d20 Modern, and the like.
Is anybody still playing it? Is there any feedback on what are good starter adventures for this system?
I remember when Iron Crown Enterprises released their middle earth stuff and really enjoyed it. Sadly, this appears to be out of print (although the ICE website has other classic items for sale).
Our local group is debating experimenting with this as an alternative to pathfinder or 4E and it's been a long, long while . . .
I bought all of the RMSS core books last year for Christmas and played a brief game, though was forced to sell most of my RPGs shortly thereafter (including Rolemaster). During that brief game, however, I found it an enjoyable alternative to D&D 4e that offered me more choices with a similar amount of crunch.
You really have to have a thing for tables to enjoy it.
Bye
Thanee
True. But I'm losing patience with 3.5 edition because of the number of books. I lost my 3.5 library a couple of years ago during a move and the current environment makes replacing > 20 books frustrating. You'd think that this wouldn't be a problem but it can start to matter when there is a books "arms race".
It is true that limiting books can help but nobody is every happy with any actual proposed subset.
I've strongly considered Pathfinder. But Rolemaster had some very well designed supplements (that their middle earth stuff is out of print is almost criminal) and the system is available inexpensively. The company appears committed to supporting it.
So I am not sure but I wanted to get a feeling for what others thought about Rolemaster, now that the hobby has advanced many years, and what cool thigns might have been released for it that I missed (as I solely used the Middle Earth Material).
Rolemaster is a fine game if you don't mind the overall slowness in resolving the action. Iron Crown [www.ironcrown.com] currently publishes two editions of the game: RMFRP and RMC. The former is a repackage of RMSS and I don't recommend it to anyone as the bookeeping is too intense and the character skill list grow completely out of control. The later is a repackage of RM2, with superior layout and organization and a re-write of the rules for clearness -- the rules were virtually unchanged from the second edition. Furthermore, RMC line also includes a book called Rolemaster Express (RMX), a cheap introduction to the system that might be sufficient for many players.
Regarding adventures, I've never played one from Iron Crown, but a couple of friends that actually tried said they weren't too impressive. That said, it was never difficult to adapt AD&D adventures to Rolemaster.
__________________ "This happens all the time. No matter how epic the battle, once begun, the thing sounds more or less like a bingo game: People shout out numbers and other people get excited about them."
DM of the Rings
Rolemaster is a fine game if you don't mind the overall slowness in resolving the action. Iron Crown [www.ironcrown.com] currently publishes two editions of the game: RMFRP and RMC.
The original RMSS books are also still available from ICE.
It's been a while since I played any Rolemaster. Yeah, charts are an issue, although they can make for very entertaining crits.
It can be fun (as almost any system can) with the right GM. I seem to recall that my character was an excellent mage, unless he tried to cast a spell from his actual class list, then he died. (3 times if I recall correctly.) Of course that may have had more to do with my dice luck than with the system, except that it's worth noting that you can roll a critical fumble and kill yourself with routine spellcasting.
__________________ -Andor
"Congratulations. You just invented 'negligent regicide.'" - Schlock Mercenary
If your DM does not have an instinctive knowledge of what tables to consult or (more importantly) when to stop with the complexity, it is an awful, grinding game that is frequently bogged down in life-or-death situations that require upwards of an hour (it really happened!) to resolve.
If your DM knows his stuff and (in my opinion) keeps to the more simple tables it is a good game, albeit one where you simply cannot plan ahead (one good/bad roll will utterly ruin you/give you a moment of awesome). If you want to capture the grit and chaos of real-life engagements then rolemaster is for you. And yes, I've played in a game where this happened.
I've been on a MERP bender lately (mostly due to nostalgia for Angus McBride). The old Rolemaster rules can go fast enough with a competent GM. But man ... invisible turtles still suck.
Edit: Though has anyone read the XP rules recently? Ludicrous.
__________________ ENworld OAF (Old-school Admirer of 4th edition)
If your DM does not have an instinctive knowledge of what tables to consult or (more importantly) when to stop with the complexity, it is an awful, grinding game that is frequently bogged down in life-or-death situations that require upwards of an hour (it really happened!) to resolve.
If your DM knows his stuff and (in my opinion) keeps to the more simple tables it is a good game, albeit one where you simply cannot plan ahead (one good/bad roll will utterly ruin you/give you a moment of awesome). If you want to capture the grit and chaos of real-life engagements then rolemaster is for you. And yes, I've played in a game where this happened.
At the moment, my 3.5E group is houseruling in this level of complexity, anyway, so there doesn't seem to be a great deal of penalty for going to a more complex system (the House rules packet grew to > 200 pages).
So I am happy if we can acheive the design goals of a system with complexity but fewer total rules to memorize.
But the point about the need for system mastery on the part of the DM is an exceedingly good one and worth putting some thought into.
I've been on a MERP bender lately (mostly due to nostalgia for Angus McBride). The old Rolemaster rules can go fast enough with a competent GM. But man ... invisible turtles still suck.
Edit: Though has anyone read the XP rules recently? Ludicrous.
What is the issue with the XP rules?
I thought that ICE did some amazingly well done supplements for middle earth, back in the day, and they stand up really well to modern gamaing material.
Core book, talent law, arms law, the various schools of magic books if you have someone who really wants to focus on casting...there are tons of books available. I always played RM w/someone who had all of those books already and had reinforced his hole punching, sheared off the sides and put everything into binders. Put all the class kits into one section for ease of character creation. Still took 4 hours to teach someone how to make a character if they had never played before, altho once my friends developed their spreadsheet that was cut down o 90 minutes.
Play was reasonably fast once you made it past chargen, but many people got frustrated just trying to make a character. Of course after I hadn't played it in a couple of years I sat down and made a character, then decided I wanted to make a 2nd and had it done in a half hour, including talents and everything.
I've been on a MERP bender lately (mostly due to nostalgia for Angus McBride). The old Rolemaster rules can go fast enough with a competent GM. But man ... invisible turtles still suck.
You mock the unseen, imaginary, deceased turtle? You are very confused.
__________________ -Andor
"Congratulations. You just invented 'negligent regicide.'" - Schlock Mercenary
I used to do some writing for ICE (I co-wrote the RMSS book The Essence Companion and helped playtest and proofread Castles & Ruins) and it was my gaming group's system of choice for nearly a dozen years. I've played a LOT of Rolemaster over the years.
The game will always have a place in my heart but I've gotta say that my tastes have evolved away from the chart-heavy realism that Rolemaster has as a core design feature. Combat (for us) was always slow and frequently deadly (or else required fudging to keep it from being so deadly).
Over the years we noticed that our games became much more about diplomacy and political intrigue and less about combat. At the time we thought it was because we were becoming "more mature roleplayers". But ultimately I think it was because the combat part of the game had become cumbersome for us.
We adopted 3e D&D like a breath of fresh air and haven't looked back. But we did enjoy many a fun and memorable campaign with RM back in the day.
My advice for anybody running an RM game would be for the GM to let the players help them as much as possible. Make sure you make copies of the weapon tables so that you don't have to flip through that book. Make copies of all Spell Lists known by any of the players. If you know that you're going to need certain skills then make copies of those charts too and have them handy.
My advice for anybody running an RM game would be for the GM to let the players help them as much as possible. Make sure you make copies of the weapon tables so that you don't have to flip through that book. Make copies of all Spell Lists known by any of the players. If you know that you're going to need certain skills then make copies of those charts too and have them handy.
This is great advice. My first time I played we had one guy who had the Arms Law book pretty well memorized and could flip to weapons with no difficulty. We used a battle board and he tracked health for the GM and looked up eveyrone's rolls on the charts.
The next game we played, we all sprung to get copies made of the weapon charts and spell lists we would need. We did our own lookup and our battle guy just had to track health and position. Things moved along much better. Now we have 4E with Power Cards and it just makes sense after my experiences in Rolemaster heh.
Rolemaster is the best game I've ever played. I like the realistic way armor reduces damage rather than just crank up an AC which should actually go down with heavy metal worn. The wide range of character types and quirky skills you can learn like stilt walking are cool. Then there's the lovely critical chart after upending.... ahhh the joy. Playing AD&D (a great game!) after spending time at Rolemaster is like going to MacDonald's when you usually dine gourmet.
I used to do some writing for ICE (I co-wrote the RMSS book The Essence Companion
I love the Essence Companion. It and the Martial Arts Companion were my two favorite supplements (edit: oops add Channeling Companion to the list). During the time when EC was selling for like a $100 + on ebay, I was able to track a copy down for cover price and shipping thanks to the people on the ICE forums.
Quote:
The game will always have a place in my heart but I've gotta say that my tastes have evolved away from the chart-heavy realism that Rolemaster has as a core design feature. Combat (for us) was always slow and frequently deadly (or else required fudging to keep it from being so deadly).
Over the years we noticed that our games became much more about diplomacy and political intrigue and less about combat. At the time we thought it was because we were becoming "more mature roleplayers". But ultimately I think it was because the combat part of the game had become cumbersome for us.
I was actually very happy to see players more wary of combat and choosing when to fight and when to try another tactic. However, we also got some very cinematic moments as well. The Sorcerer holding on to a gargoyle for dear life while the gargoyle fllew among buildings trying to shake him off. Then, there was the Sorcerer trying to escape a combat on the Cavalier's horse only to have the horse turn and charge the trolls and save its downed master.
Quote:
We adopted 3e D&D like a breath of fresh air and haven't looked back. But we did enjoy many a fun and memorable campaign with RM back in the day.
I found 3e to be a good meeting point that satisfied both my RM players and those from a strict DND background that didn't like allocating DB in RM. For myself, I found 3e really good provided that I controlled the supplemental material.
Quote:
My advice for anybody running an RM game would be for the GM to let the players help them as much as possible. Make sure you make copies of the weapon tables so that you don't have to flip through that book. Make copies of all Spell Lists known by any of the players. If you know that you're going to need certain skills then make copies of those charts too and have them handy.
Most definitely agree. We found it very helpful to have one player keep track of eveyone's hit points and power points as well as bleeding, stun etc.
__________________ "The designers of the newest edition built so much reliance on rules right into the game, to make it easier to play. As one of those designers, I occasionally think to myself, 'What have we wrought?' " -Monte Cook
" If the DM has to make a lot of judgment calls, the game is more difficult to learn. However, it's my belief that it's also more satisfying." -Monte Cook
"Don't let rules replace good DMing skills"- Monte Cook
Last edited by Greg K; 19th October 2009 at 11:10 PM..
I love the Essence Companion. It and the Martial Arts Companion were my two favorite supplements. During the time when EC was selling for like a $100 + on ebay, I was able to track a copy down for cover price and shipping thanks to the people on the ICE forums.
Glad to hear it. I couldn't believe how much copies were selling for back in those days. I heard rumors of one going for upwards of $200, which is just crazy if you ask me.
These days you can get a PDF of it for pretty cheap.
Glad to hear it. I couldn't believe how much copies were selling for back in those days. I heard rumors of one going for upwards of $200, which is just crazy if you ask me.
These days you can get a PDF of it for pretty cheap.
It is nice how PDF have made vintage games available, isn't it?
It also makes it possible (even if not always trivial) to recruit new players to the game system as they can get copies of the rules to learn.
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