General RPG Rules DiscussionDiscuss the rules of any game except D&D or Pathfinder, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, d20 Modern, and the like.
Okay, so I've been watching a lot of Heroes, Fringe, FastForward, and Darker than Black lately. In the wake of the economic crunch, everyone is kind of expecting something big to happen. The recent questions about the Mayan calendar ending in 2012 are in mind.
So, with that in mind...
The time: January, 2010.
The place: San Francisco.
Just last week, something happened.
IMHO, HERO and M&M are the 2 most flexible systems out there. If you can handle them, they will let you and your players design PCs that can do pretty much whatever they envision their PCs doing.
Hmm... given the theme, I would probably go with a system, that is fairly gritty (so M&M and anything d20-based is out). HERO can work, or GURPS. Both are quite complex, though. Savage Worlds, if you want it rules-light, is also an option. Maybe even BRP.
Bye
Thanee
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In Memoriam Dave Arneson ( April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax ( March 4th, 2008).
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I'm not familiar with Iron Age. Does that change the mechanics enough to actually make them more gritty? Because the regular M&M mechanics certainly are more fitting for standard superhero games, IMHO (which isn't meant to sound bad, they work really well ).
Bye
Thanee
__________________
In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!
In Memoriam Dave Arneson ( April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax ( March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
Sadly, while Iron Age sits on my shelf, I've not had the opportunity to use it. My current M&M campaign has absolutely no use for them, being set in 1912 and all...
It doesn't change the mechanics of combat, at all.
However, changing the game to make lethal damage the norm vastly shifts the lethality and grittiness of combat. I've played in both types of campaigns, and there is a marked shift in the tone and danger of the game.
With a couple character-build guidelines (relatively low con-modifiers, low recovery bonuses, fortitude saves that allow characters to actually die) you start seeing a major jump in character (including player character) mortality.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by keteryck, on Iron Heroes
You are not your magic weapon and armor. You are not your spell buffs. You are not how much gold you have, or how many times you've been raised from the dead. When a Big Bad Demon snaps your sword in two, you do not cry because that was your holy avenger. You leap onto its back, climb up to its head, and punch it in the eye, then get a new damn sword off of the next humanoid you headbutt to death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeapThaumaturgist
"Home" is what you defend with your life ... from ninjas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalker0
Minions are a convenience, a way to allow a dm to run many guys with little effort, and a chance for players to really strut their stuff. They are not so that Bobo the clown can kill the legion of the damned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf Ratbane
Victory should come like the dawn, not like a light switch.
Spoiler:
Hate skill ranks? Try Sadrik's Fix.
Interested in Blood Throne? Find out more.
Actually, M&M has their Iron Age sourcebook that is for grim/gritty settings, and there are a few campaign sourcebooks out there that are also on the rougher side, like Nocturnals.
Note that Nocturnals is for M&M 1e.
I thought Iron Age had a few suggestions on increasing grittiness. Anyways, if it does, it's basically what ValhallaGH said -- more lethal damage. You can also add disabled to the "nonlethal" damage track, maybe at failure by 20 or 25+.
I'd probably use M&M for Heroes, but I'd go with GURPS or SW or the like for the others.
__________________ - Bob Huss
[H]e's dead and poisoned and possibly insane on another plane. It's a very stylish death, but a definitive one. - Piratecat
I revise my previous, it does suggest the "Damage Roll" variant from the Masterminds Manual. Basically, roll a d20 + Damage vs DC 16+ toughness.
Fail by 15+ = No effect
Fail by 10-14 = Bruised / Injured
Fail by 5-9 = Plus Stun
Fail by 1-4 = Staggered / Disabled
Success = Unconscious / Dying
(Optional) Success by 5+ = Dead
This version vastly increases the chances of laying out a foe in one hit. It also allows you to spend Hero Points on damage, making things even more dangerous. Good for "getting hit freaking hurts" style campaigns. (Sort of like Wound / Vitality systems, without the vitality points....)
From a statistical analysis, this variant is wildly more dangerous. Average die results (assuming equal damage / toughness bonuses) will stun the target (plus Bruised / Injured) four times, then disable the target, then put the target to dying (about six hits). With a Hero Point, average results will knock the target out (dying / unconscious).
You only fail to damage the target on a roll of 1 (assuming equal damage / toughness bonuses), and a hero point guarantees at least Injured / Bruised plus Stun. A roll of 15+ on damage (or a roll of 10+ on a critical hit) is guaranteed to drop the target.
Good luck.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by keteryck, on Iron Heroes
You are not your magic weapon and armor. You are not your spell buffs. You are not how much gold you have, or how many times you've been raised from the dead. When a Big Bad Demon snaps your sword in two, you do not cry because that was your holy avenger. You leap onto its back, climb up to its head, and punch it in the eye, then get a new damn sword off of the next humanoid you headbutt to death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeapThaumaturgist
"Home" is what you defend with your life ... from ninjas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalker0
Minions are a convenience, a way to allow a dm to run many guys with little effort, and a chance for players to really strut their stuff. They are not so that Bobo the clown can kill the legion of the damned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf Ratbane
Victory should come like the dawn, not like a light switch.
Spoiler:
Hate skill ranks? Try Sadrik's Fix.
Interested in Blood Throne? Find out more.
At this point, I'm thinking of using HERO system. I've got a 4th edition book right now, but I've asked my FLGS for a 6th edition book when it comes out.
As for base character creation, I'm thinking of keeping it a little lower powered to start. Basically, the base character can be a Normal, Skilled Normal, or Competent Normal (0, 25, 50 base points, max 25, 25, 50 disadvantages) to start. When "something happens", the updated character becomes Heroic (75 base points, max 75 disadvantages). The Heroic character will be introduced in the first session.
It sounds interesting, but when "something happens," are you just going to give the PCs a boost of free points or are you going to insist on some disads?
It sounds interesting, but when "something happens," are you just going to give the PCs a boost of free points or are you going to insist on some disads?
I've played in some games like that, and handing out disads isn't needed at the time. The watched and hunted disads will follow soon enough. Probably some rivals and nemesisisiieie too.
Sounds like an awesome game. Good luck. ^^
__________________ -Andor
"Congratulations. You just invented 'negligent regicide.'" - Schlock Mercenary
Yah, it's not necessary to take disads if the player doesn't want to...
Here's an example character. He will be an NPC for the game. I built him from a Competent Normal.
Clinton Newmark is the eccentric yet brilliant CEO of Peach Technologies, a big mobile technology and research software firm. His popular devices have made their way into the pockets of people worldwide, and everyone knows their slogan, Life's a Peach. He is well known for his secretive nature, and people have accused him and his firm of various nefarious search-based activities, even though none are apparent. Mr. Newmark, of course, does not confirm or deny any rumors, and is constantly defending against governments, hackers, and the like, trying to learn whatever he's up to, whether it's to uncover some dark scheme, or just to learn about the next generation of awesome product. It is rumored that he has a giant database that stores information from all around the web.
Earlier this week, Mr. Newmark awoke with a start. His mind filled with names, places, distances... and associated powers. The cacophony was so great, he stumbled about, no longer able to process what was in front of him. Assuming it to be some form of hysterical blindness brought on from the stress of his job, his doctors rushed him through MRI, and noted that his pineal gland was producing a large amount of sympathetic activity on its own. The hysterical blindness was brought under control with exceptionally high doses of melatonin, and a preparation of pineal tissue allowed him to regain control of his senses. That is when he realized the he now knew that some other people (he estimates the rate at 1 person per 100,000) are experiencing a sudden change in their physiology, resulting in new powers. He realized he knew where they are, and what powers they had.
He knows that people are going to be searching for these people. Companies, governments, organizations, religions... the future will depend on the actions of these people. And he aims to hold the monopoly on their services, given first mover advantage.
He has had to accept a drug pump that constantly pours pineal tissue preparation into his system, but he considers this a small price compared to his advantage.
Clinton Newmark
STR 10, DEX 10, CON 10, BODY 10, INT 20, EGO 18, PRE 20, COM 16: 39 pts.
PD 2, ED 2, SPD 2, REC 4, END 20, STUN 20, Run 6", Swim 2": 0 pts.
Skills:
Bureaucratics 13-, Computer Programming 13-, Oratory 14-, High Society 13-, Trading 13-, Persuasion 14-, Conversation 14-. Language (English) 4, Language (Mandarin) 4. (Numbers reflect Modern Everyman skills and Skill Level in Conversation, Oratory, Persuasion.) 25 pts.
While HERO is one of the quintessential "All you need is one book" RPGs, for a campaign like the one you describe, I'd recommend that you have Ultimate Martial Artist & Dark HERO on hand- with a low-level campaign, you're going to see more emphasis on martial arts & gear than powers, at least initially- and see if you can track down the supplements for magic or psi.
While HERO is one of the quintessential "All you need is one book" RPGs, for a campaign like the one you describe, I'd recommend that you have Ultimate Martial Artist & Dark HERO on hand- with a low-level campaign, you're going to see more emphasis on martial arts & gear than powers, at least initially- and see if you can track down the supplements for magic or psi.
Fantasy HERO might come in handy as well.
What do they have that the core book does not? Can't gear be approximated through powers/skills/etc?
Can't gear be approximated through powers/skills/etc?
Actually, that's essentially how you build equipment.
The books, however, will give you a broad variety of equipment already statted out (powers chosen, disads/mods applied, math done), saving you a lot of work. And it will all be standardized- that way, except for unique add-ons (like someone's flame aura or anti-evil aura), everyone's 2 handed sword will be the same. Everyone's .50 cal Desert Eagle will be the same. Everyone's bulletproof vest will be the same.
Overall, what UMA (and to a lesser extent, Ninja HERO) has that the base book doesn't is a MUCH larger list of martial arts maneuvers, new ways of using some of the stuff in the base book, a large section of martial arts styles actually assembled with maneuvers and associated skills, and a bunch of new martial arts weapons, also statted out.
In addition, it has a section on translating the info in that book into other systems...handy if you play any of those systems. Also handy if you can grasp your concept better in one of those systems and wish to retro-engineer your concept.
Dark Champions also gives you more equipment and gadgets, as well as some different takes on certain rules to represent a grittier game.
Fantasy HERO does likewise, but its main use will be having ready-made monsters, spells and racial package deals.
None are necessary- though I rarely play a heroic-level game without UMA- but they are handy in that they do a lot of work for you.
).
6th Edition will go the two Core book route, like GURPS did.
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