General RPG Rules DiscussionDiscuss the rules of any game except D&D or Pathfinder, such as Arcana Evolved, Mutants & Masterminds, Star Wars Saga, d20 Modern, and the like.
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For those of you who play Mutants and Masterminds in a genre besides that which the authors intended.
What power level do you guys play at?
What genre do you use the system for?
What sort of changes have you had to make?
Be detailed.
I am thinking of running either a pulp or low fantasy game.
I figure 45 points would be ok especially using the optional ruleof no level limits ( I.E. 45 points is 3rd leve. at third level you normally cannot haveat attack bonus above +3, in the case of the optional rule syou can increase it to whatever bonus you can afford).
Originally posted by Albert_Fish What power level do you guys play at?
While I have only played a pulp-style 1930s game in MnM (as well as the superhero/modern genre), I would suggest PL 7 or 8 for a game from that era. If it's going to be mainly fighting minions, maybe 6 or even 5.
Quote:
What genre do you use the system for?
I would imagine that, with a few tweaks, you could use MnM for almost anything. I toyed with doing Space Opera with MnM. I saw someone on the GR board talking about a Pirate game, and another talking about a Wild West game. MnM is really versatile, since everything is point-based. Almost what GURPS was trying to be...
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Originally posted by Albert_Fish For those of you who play Mutants and Masterminds in a genre besides that which the authors intended.
What power level do you guys play at?
What genre do you use the system for?
What sort of changes have you had to make?
Be detailed.
I am thinking of running either a pulp or low fantasy game.
I figure 45 points would be ok especially using the optional ruleof no level limits ( I.E. 45 points is 3rd leve. at third level you normally cannot haveat attack bonus above +3, in the case of the optional rule syou can increase it to whatever bonus you can afford).
How aobut you guys more familiar with the system?
I've used M&M for a Bluffside mini-campaign. That was quite fun.
The only real weakness the game seems to have is that skills become too expensive to afford for "skill" characters. There are a handful of ways to deal with it. I just condensed the skill lists to a list of about 20 skills. Of course i ended up with a different list for my Bluffside/Fantasy campaign than i had for my regular superhero campaign. But it has worked out quite nicely!!
I've toyed with several ideas for the M&M. a Straight fantasy game would work very well. We are getting a little sick of flat D&D 3E.
Of course a Superhero in the Wild West would be real cool. Or a superhero-fantasy mix sounds nice. Too many possibilities.
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The only real weakness the game seems to have is that skills become too expensive to afford for "skill" characters. There are a handful of ways to deal with it. I just condensed the skill lists to a list of about 20 skills.
Did you use the "but 3 skill points for 1 build point" house rule that seems to have arisen to combat this problem?
benedict
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I have been using the standard skill point costs since I began running thegame in January and there has NEVER been a "problem" with it. It is actually very reflectiveof the genre, Batman is good at ALL Dex based skills etc. I could see the same rules applying to Doc Savage with his infinite knowledge of EVERYTHING and it keeps you from having to list, like in the Knowledges, EVERY STINKING KNOWLEDGE UNDER THE SUN and wasting points having to buy it, because that is how comic books work.
I think the "problem" with skill point costs is we are so used to having every minute detail down about our characters that we have to have everything quantified. Skill point costs are about as much a problem in my experience as the Attribute costs.
Did you use the "but 3 skill points for 1 build point" house rule that seems to have arisen to combat this problem?
benedict
I tried that last night actually and it worked out okay (ran a solo), the character even ended up with more skill ranks than he would have had comparatively with my CSL (condensed skill list). But all things considered, i liked the CSL better (Hide and Move Silent is now Stealth, Listen and Spot is Perception, etc). It streamlined the skills so that there is less bookkeeping, no bother with synergies (which seemed like an uneeded crossover from core D20), and even less rolls. For some reason i just don't like the 3 to 1 ratio, i'd rather let the points system stay the way it is, because i like the extra benefits we gained from the CSL.
what power level were the players?
I was doing PL 5 for my Farscape/Space Opera
ddi you even use super powers?
Yes, but supposedly for alien and psionic powers.
Some suggestions:
Limit feat purchases to perhaps 4 feats at first. A LOT of players love the idea of getting things like power attack along with multiple attack feats so they can juggle around their BAB, damage and AC to over react to the situation.
Cap Super Atts to +2, but then lower skill points to 1 for 2.
Put your foot down on "front loaded" powers like invisiblity, Incorpreal, and Dimensional Travel. Either ban them or make the PC take flaws with them to limit their use. (Get the errata for the new Gadget guidelines too.)
And keep an eye on how players develop their characters. I see that a few of them look over all the goodies in MnM and then start getting a level of this or that (mostly those front loaded powers I mentioned earlier) as their concept begins to dissovle under the weight of getting the new power of the week.
Last edited by Voneth; 23rd May 2003 at 12:27 AM..
Originally posted by Albert_Fish PJ Mason. How did you convert monsters?
what power level were the players?
ddi you even use super powers?
What power level?
I didn't use a lot of monsters (mostly other humanoid characters - for no real reason other than thats my style), but for what i did use, Voneth is right. Those guidelines attached to that link worked plenty good for me.
I used power level 3, as i wanted them to be inexperienced, but worth their salt. PL 1 or 2 is just to darned weak though. The higher PL's (10+) in M&M are way more powerful, so you have to be careful to stay within the realms of playability, if you are concerned with such things. One level in M&M is a much bigger deal than 1 level in D&D! If you want your players to be major heavyweights, like Titans or Demi-gods, then its easy as pie to use the system without any restraints.
Yep i used powers for racial abilities (Dwarf's got Super Con +1, Elves S-Dex +1, some races got darkvision, etc), that way they had inherent bonuses, even if they had low regular stats. I had one half-elf/half-drow (a Bluffside race) that had Obscure (natural power for the character as they cast Darkness) and Incorporeal (a magical ability he developed) and 1 rank of the Sorcery power.
The sorcery power goes a real long way in modeling D&D magic, IMO. So that wasn't so hard a hurdle, afterall.
Based on my limited reading of it so far (I just bought it this weekend, and am already planning a campaign, possibly set in an "alternate" Marvel Universe [well, mostly only for villains]), but it seems to me that it would work for a more-or-less d20 Shadowrun far better than would standard levelled d20. Some of the mechanics even seem more-or-less similar...all that would be required is to shorten the "life bar", to make the game a bit more lethal. I'm seeing it as a fairly decent system for a conversion of World of Darkness, as well.
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Originally posted by Andrew D. Gable Based on my limited reading of it so far (I just bought it this weekend, and am already planning a campaign, possibly set in an "alternate" Marvel Universe [well, mostly only for villains]), but it seems to me that it would work for a more-or-less d20 Shadowrun far better than would standard levelled d20. Some of the mechanics even seem more-or-less similar...all that would be required is to shorten the "life bar", to make the game a bit more lethal. I'm seeing it as a fairly decent system for a conversion of World of Darkness, as well.
The possibilities really are endless. I have a friend who is working on an Exalted M&M conversion.
The possibilities really are endless. I have a friend who is working on an Exalted M&M conversion.
An M&M/Exalted conversion, you say? Interesting. If you could, keep us posted on that. I'm a big fan of Exalted but the Storyteller system really bugs me. I've done a few modifications to make it run more smoothly, but I'd be interested to see how a more direct conversion works.
I think my biggest problem w/ doing an M&M/Exalted conversion is how to keep the power-identities of the various Exalts (Solar v. Lunar v. Abyssal v. Dragon-Blooded, etc.) unique without converting every single Charm in the game.
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An M&M/Exalted conversion, you say? Interesting. If you could, keep us posted on that. I'm a big fan of Exalted but the Storyteller system really bugs me. I've done a few modifications to make it run more smoothly, but I'd be interested to see how a more direct conversion works.
Will do. He said he and a few of his Exalted buddies are playtesting some of the conversion rules. I'll ask him how it is going. I'll even try to talk him into posting here, as he posts on ENWorld every once in a blue moon.
Quote:
Originally posted by Apok I think my biggest problem w/ doing an M&M/Exalted conversion is how to keep the power-identities of the various Exalts (Solar v. Lunar v. Abyssal v. Dragon-Blooded, etc.) unique without converting every single Charm in the game.
I agree. I took the stance that everything didn't need to be converted exactly. If you are going to convert the rules, use the rules and don't try to emulate the setting TOO hard to the point the conversion was waste of time. As for the different castes, i suggested a list of templates that each player would choose from when creating their character. Some might cost more than others, but get more abilities/powers than the cheaper ones, (or even say if you wanted to actually play a human) who would have more free points to spend on the rest of their abilities. You would need to maybe create an outline as to who can buy what powers, though. I'm not an expert on the setting however.
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