Aboleth w/ Age Categories?

[bykov]

Hey All:

I am working on retooling the aboleth from 3.5 and happened across the conversion thread in this forum. What I am trying to do is take the aboleth along with its cousins from AD&D and compress them into a progression based on age.

The issue I have run into is whether or not to stick with the 5 aboleths from the Dragon ecologies article or expand to 7 age categories. Attached are 2 spreadsheets that detail what I have been pondering. All constructive input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Bykov.

[freyar]

I'm going to wait until I can look over those spreadsheets (tomorrow probably), but something about 7 age categories appeals to me for some reason. Maybe just because it's different.

[bykov]

Originally Posted by freyar

I'm going to wait until I can look over those spreadsheets (tomorrow probably), but something about 7 age categories appeals to me for some reason. Maybe just because it's different.

The major thought process was to bridge the gap between the Ruler Aboleth and the Grand Aboleth, especially in respect to HD. In AD&D the Grand was at 40HD. I managed to set a decent progression and was able to set the Grand at 32 HD with a maximum at 36 HD.

Bykov.

[freyar]

Looking at it, I think I like the 7 category progression.

One question, though. Why increase abilities at every HD? IIRC, that's not how dragons do it, is it?

[bykov]

Originally Posted by freyar

Looking at it, I think I like the 7 category progression.

One question, though. Why increase abilities at every HD? IIRC, that's not how dragons do it, is it?

Most dragons jump 2 every other 3 HD or something similar. It is something I am playing with as alot of times when scaling a dragon to an encounter, you need that inbetween number. I understand that they did it to save on space for cost/printing reasons, but I like to be as comprehensive as possible. Dragons wouldn't just jump 3 HD, they would progress like any character would...one HD at a time.

Bykov.

[bykov]

OK, here is my base aboleth. I would really like feedback if something doesn't make sense or is too overpowered. I am working from the psionic variant and I have dropped items I thought didn't add to the aboleth or made too little sense. In turn, I added quite a bit. The biggest items were:

Detect Thoughts: ESP from AD&D. Saltwater Aboleth has ESP 3/day and since I have eliminated the Saltwater Aboleth (yeah, didn't you know aboleth can live in both fresh and saltwater?) and incorporated it into the core aboleth, I just thought it made sense.

True Seeing: Just made sense especially in conjuction with the Detect Thoughts. It could be dropped back down to See Invisibility.

Genetic Knowledge: My variant on Knowledgeable.

Memory Siphon: My own ability, again it made sense to give the memery eating aspect an actual game factor.

Bite/Improved Grab/Swallow Whole: Inspired from the Ecology artical, gave the aboleth back its bite.

Telepathy: All over in AD&D aboleths, nowhere to be seen in 3.5. It's back!

Slave Transformation: This one I am still fighting with. I think I am close. The pretense is (1) I cannot see an aboleth continually fighting its slave for control and (2) slimy skin isn't going to make a humanoid survive 20,000 leagues under the sea. I will eventually template out the Aboleth Servitor (wow, I actually pulled something from 4e, granted it is only a name).

A big thing you will notice over time (or even already), I do throw alot into the big creatures trying to make them as comprehensive as possible. Sometimes I do get lost in the words.

Bykov.


Aboleth, Common CR 9 [9.98]
Usually LE Huge Aberration (Aquatic, Psionic)
Init +1; Senses Darkvision (Ex) 60', Detect Thoughts (Su) 60’, True Seeing (Su) 120';
Listen +10, Spot +10
Aura –none-
Languages Aboleth, Aquan, Infernal, Undercommon; Telepathy (Su) 100’ (see text)

AC 16, touch 9, flat-footed 15 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +7 natural)
Defensive Options –none-
hp 83 (8d8+40 HD); DR —
Immune –none-
Resist –none-; SR/PR —
Weakness –none-
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +11

Speed 10 ft. (2 squares), swim 60 ft.
Melee tentacle +12 (1d6+8 plus slime/×2)
Melee bite +12 (2d6+4/×2)
Full Attack 4 tentacles +12 (1d6+8 plus slime/×2)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Base Atk +6; Grp +22
Atk Options Bite (Ex), Improved Grab (Ex), Mucus Cloud (Ex), Slime (Ex), Swallow Whole (Ex)
Special Actions Enslave (Su), Memory Siphon (Su)
Psi-Like Abilities (ML 10th):
At will — disable (40 ft., 12 HD, DC 19*), detect psionics, false sensory input (three targets, DC 17*), mental disruption (20-ft. radius, DC 17*), mindlink (unwilling, five targets, DC 15*)
3/day—ego whip (2d4 Cha, DC 18*), id insinuation (four targets, DC 19*), thought shield (power resistance 20, 8 rounds*)
1/day—intellect fortress (4 rounds*), mindwipe (2 negative levels, DC 19*), psionic modify memory (DC 18), psychic crush (DC 19, 3d6 damage on successful save*)
The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Abilities Str 26 (+8), Dex 12 (+1), Con 20 (+5), Int 16 (+3), Wis 17 (+3), Cha 18 (+4)
SQ Amphibious (Ex), Genetic Knowledge (Ex), Slave Transformation (Su), Telepathy (Su)
Feats Alertness, Combat Manifestation, Iron Will
Skills Autohypnosis +14, Bluff +4 (+8 when using detect thoughts), Concentration +14 (+18 when manifesting defensively), Jump -4, Knowledge (psionics) +18, Knowledge (any one) +16, Knowledge (all others) +7, Psicraft +14, Sense Motive +3 (+7 when using detect thoughts), Swim +16

An aboleth attacks by flailing with its long, slimy tentacles, though it prefers to fight from a distance using its illusion powers.
Amphibious (Ex): Although aboleths are aquatic, they can survive indefinitely on land.
Bite (Ex): When swimming, an aboleth may use its bite attack. Due to the position of the aboleth’s mouth, it provokes an attack of opportunity when attempting a bite. An aboleth cannot attack with its tentacles at the same time it bites.
On a successful hit, an aboleth’s bite deals 2d6 points of damage, plus half its Strength bonus.
Detect Thoughts (Su): An aboleth can continuously use detect thoughts as the spell (CL 10th; Will DC 16 negates). It can suppress or resume this ability as a free action. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Enslave (Su): Three times per day, an aboleth can attempt to enslave any humanoid within 50' as though by a psionic dominate power (ML 10th, one target, Will DC 19*). The target must succeed on its save or be enslaved by the aboleth. An enslaved creature is allowed a new Will save to break the aboleth's control every 24 hours or if it travels more than 1 mile from the aboleth. Otherwise, it obeys the aboleth’s telepathic commands indefinitely unless freed by either a remove curse or the aboleth's death. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Genetic Knowledge (Ex): Due to the aboleth's inherited memories, it is granted a +4 bonus on all knowledge skill checks. All knowledge skills are considered class skills and can be used untrained.
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an aboleth must hit a creature of medium or smaller size with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attempt to swallow the opponent in the following round.
Memory Siphon (Su): An aboleth consumes the memories of any creature it ingests. Any creature the aboleth consumes must succeed a Fort save or have its memories siphoned as though by a mindwipe psionic power (ML 10th, 2 negative levels, DC 19*), except that negative levels gained in this way are permanent.
Mucus Cloud (Ex): An aboleth underwater surrounds itself with a viscous cloud of mucus roughly 5 foot thick. Any creature coming into contact with and inhaling this substance must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or lose the ability to breathe air for the next 3 hours. An affected creature suffocates in 2d6 minutes if removed from the water. Renewed contact with the mucus cloud and failing another Fortitude save continues the effect for another 3 hours. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Slave Transformation (Su): To prepare an enslaved humanoid or monstrous humanoid for long-term servitude, an aboleth encases the creature underwater in a thick slime cocoon. This cocoon is identical to the nourishing shell that aboleth lay their eggs. However, a living creature encased in it is transformed into a subservient aquatic creature (see Aboleth Servitor template) over the next 1d4+3 days. During this transformation, the target creature is not only physically changed, but mentally changed to be completely subservient and pliable to the aboleth's whims, including transfer of control to another aboleth.
A target creature is still afforded any Will saves it is allowed to break the aboleth's control (at a -4 penalty) during the first 3 days of the transformation. Any target able to regain autonomy may attempt a DC 10 Strength check (each retry at a +1 DC) to escape the slime cocoon. If after 3 days the creature is unable to escape, it is rendered completely immobile as the transformation runs its course.
Once transformed, the creature is bound indefinitely as a slave to the aboleth and is unable to further resist its control, barring death of the controlling aboleth or the use of a break enchantment or dispel magic spell against an effective caster level equal to transforming aboleths manifester level.
The physical transformation, once complete, can only be reversed using either a wish spell or reality revision power.
Slime (Ex): A blow from an aboleth’s tentacle can cause a terrible affliction. A creature hit by a tentacle must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save or begin to transform over the next 1d4+1 rounds, the afflicted creature's skin gradually becoming a clear, slimy membrane. An afflicted creature must remain moistened with cool, fresh water or take 1d12 points of damage every minute. The slime reduces the creature’s natural armor bonus by 1 (but never to less than 0). The save DC is Constitution-based.
A remove disease spell cast before the transformation is complete will restore an afflicted creature to normal. Afterward, however, only a heal or mass heal spell can reverse the affliction.
Swallow Whole (Ex): An aboleth can try to swallow a grabbed Medium or smaller opponent by making a successful grapple check. A swallowed creature takes 2d8+8 points of piercing and slashing damage from the aboleth’s esophagus. In addition, a creature that has been ingested by an aboleth is also subject to its memory siphon supernatural ability every round the creature is in the aboleth’s esophagus. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the esophagus (AC 13). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.
An aboleth’s can swallow only 1 Medium, 4 Small, 16 Tiny, or 64 Diminutive or smaller opponents every hour.
Telepathy (Su): An aboleth can communicate telepathically with any other creature within 100 ft. that has a language. An aboleth can also communicate telepathically with any of its slaves (1-mile radius), with any aboleth (10-mile radius), and with the greater aboleth that collects its slaves (100-mile radius).
True Seeing (Su): Aboleths continuously use true seeing, as the spell (CL 10th).
Skills: An aboleth has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.
An aboleth gains a +4 on Bluff and Sense Motive checks when using detect thoughts.

*Includes augmentation for the aboleth’s manifester level.

[bykov]

My thought process on this was to actually give the aboleth the ability to prep new slaves for deep-sea labor. Webbed extremities, gills, double eye-lids, etc. Something just doesn't feel right about this to me. The continued Will save I like, but maybe I should add a Fort save to resist the physical transformation? My largest concern is as the aboleth advances it will be able to subdue the opponent mentally through the whole transformation. Now granted, this isn't a combat type ability, so it really does not affect the grand scheme...

I dunno. Just hoping for some input.

Thanks in advance!
Bykov.

Slave Transformation (Su): To prepare an enslaved humanoid or monstrous humanoid for long-term servitude, an aboleth encases the creature underwater in a thick slime cocoon. This cocoon is identical to the nourishing shell that aboleth lay their eggs. However, a living creature encased in it is transformed into a subservient aquatic creature (see Aboleth Servitor template) over the next 1d4+3 days. During this transformation, the target creature is not only physically changed, but mentally changed to be completely subservient and pliable to the aboleth's whims, including transfer of control to another aboleth.
A target creature is still afforded any Will saves it is allowed to break the aboleth's control (at a -4 penalty) during the first 3 days of the transformation. Any target able to regain autonomy may attempt a DC 10 Strength check (each retry at a +1 DC) to escape the slime cocoon. If after 3 days the creature is unable to escape, it is rendered completely immobile as the transformation runs its course.
Once transformed, the creature is bound indefinitely as a slave to the aboleth and is unable to further resist its control, barring death of the controlling aboleth or the use of a break enchantment or dispel magic spell against an effective caster level equal to transforming aboleths manifester level.
The physical transformation, once complete, can only be reversed using either a wish spell or reality revision power.

[bykov]

I had started converting Extraordinary & Supernatural abilities to psionic equivalents when I realize, that even though they mimic spells/powers, they are not spells/powers. So the Read Thoughts (Su) was changed back to Detect Thoughts (Su), etc., but Enslave was a sticking point for me.

In XPH they shifted it to a psi-like ability and left it at that. However, the we controlling aspects of the aboleth using the psi-like ability dominate really weakened the aboleth as a whole, IMO. The indefinite aspect was gone (with the save every 24 hours). Also the obscene range of the psi-like ability seemed a bit much.

Basically, the question is, should I stick with psionic dominate or go to dominate or dominate monster?

Any thoughts?

Bykov.

Enslave (Su): Three times per day, an aboleth can attempt to enslave any humanoid within 50' as though by a psionic dominate power (ML 10th, one target*). The target must succeed on a Will save (DC 18) or be enslaved by the aboleth. An enslaved creature is allowed a new Will save to break the aboleth's control every 24 hours or if it travels more than 1 mile from the aboleth. Otherwise, it obeys the aboleth’s telepathic commands indefinitely unless freed by either a remove curse or the aboleth's death. The save DC is Charisma-based.

[freyar]

I have some mixed thoughts about the psionic dominate vs enslave thing, also. I do wish they'd just picked a consistent mechanic. Personally, I think I like using enslave. It just seems a little unique to lump it in with everything else.

About the transformation: a Fort save makes sense in a way, but it doesn't really work with the mechanic of the Will saves. You could drop the Will saves and just give a Fort save at the start. Succeed, and you're conscious and can escape (breaks mental control). Fail, and you're unconscious and must be rescued or else transform. Also, once transformed, I might make it hard to be freed than break enchantment, but I might just be being mean.

Just a question: why not use skum for the servitors?

[freyar]

I have some mixed thoughts about the psionic dominate vs enslave thing, also. I do wish they'd just picked a consistent mechanic. Personally, I think I like using enslave. It just seems a little unique to lump it in with everything else.

About the transformation: a Fort save makes sense in a way, but it doesn't really work with the mechanic of the Will saves. You could drop the Will saves and just give a Fort save at the start. Succeed, and you're conscious and can escape (breaks mental control). Fail, and you're unconscious and must be rescued or else transform. Also, once transformed, I might make it hard to be freed than break enchantment, but I might just be being mean.

Just a question: why not use skum for the servitors?

[bykov]

Originally Posted by freyar

I have some mixed thoughts about the psionic dominate vs enslave thing, also. I do wish they'd just picked a consistent mechanic. Personally, I think I like using enslave. It just seems a little unique to lump it in with everything else.

I concur. That leads me to think that Enslave (Su) could be set up to: # of times per day equal to 1/2 HD; Will DC equal to 10 + 1/2 HD + CHA Mod; shift it back to similar to dominate spell; one target per use (multiple targets is cool, it could maybe go to # of targets = to age category?); and maintain either the 24 hour rechecks no matter how powerful the aboleth or stage it to 24 hours * age category. Now the types of creatures affected is where I stick. Psionic dominate is nice as it evolves with manifester level, but the spell equivalent is dominate monster. I feel that may be a bit much, maybe just leave it to humanoid & monstrous humanoid? The thing that does get me is that aboleths were around looooong before humans, would they really be that specialized?

Originally Posted by freyar

About the transformation: a Fort save makes sense in a way, but it doesn't really work with the mechanic of the Will saves. You could drop the Will saves and just give a Fort save at the start. Succeed, and you're conscious and can escape (breaks mental control). Fail, and you're unconscious and must be rescued or else transform. Also, once transformed, I might make it hard to be freed than break enchantment, but I might just be being mean.

I see what you are saying that multiple save can become cumbersome. If I were to choose, I would leave it to the Will save, being emersed in slime would make it pretty hard to avoid the physical tranformation. My other option was to have successful Fort saves stave off transformation for one day, allowing the victim a chance to get to another Will save.

Originally Posted by freyar

Just a question: why not use skum for the servitors?

Ah, great minds think alike. I was thinking exactly that when I started, but the more I thought about that and after reading the ecology I was really liking the flavor of a servitor being the first stage, if they proved to have useful skills as servitors, this would be the form they would keep. However, those that had no specialized skill set would be subject to experimentation. The role of the Noble Aboleth in the ecology would be transferred to a prestige class, making an Aboleth Eugenecist that would have Skum Transformation as a class feature. I could also pitch the prestige class and give Skum Transformation to Nobles and greater.

I may be going too deep, but the flavor has a hold on me.

Bykov.

[freyar]

Hey, lots of cool options for aboleths? Always good!

[bykov]

Here is a breakdown of the simpler abilites:

Amphibiuos (Ex) - Straight forward. All age categories have it.

Bite (Ex) - 2d6 for Huge (Common thru Noble), 3d6 for Gargantuan (Ruler thru Greater Ruler), 4d6 for Colossal (Grand Ruler) [ ALL +1/2 STR mod]; always provokes AoO.

Detect Thoughts (Ex) - 60' range, Will DC = 10 + 1/2 HD + CHA mod.

Genetic Knowledge (Ex) - Bonus on all knowledge skill checks equal to 1/2 HD.

Improved Grab (Ex) - Straight forward.

Mucus Cloud (Ex) - 5' radius for Huge (Common thru Noble), 10' radius for Gargantuan (Ruler thru Greater Ruler), 15' radius for Colossal (Grand Ruler); Fort DC = 10 + 1/2 HD + CON mod.

Slime (Ex) - Fort DC = 10 + 1/2 HD + CON mod.

Swallow Whole (Ex) - 2d8 for Huge (Common thru Noble), 3d8 for Gargantuan (Ruler thru Greater Ruler), 4d8 for Colossal (Grand Ruler) [ ALL +STR mod]; Esophagus hp - 25 Huge, 35 Gargantuan, 50 Colossal; Esophagus AC 10 + 1/2 Nautral Armor bonus.

True Seeing (Su) - 120' range

Caster/Manifester Level = HD +2

That will leave the not so simple: Enslave (Su), Memory Siphon (Su), Slave Transformation (Su), & Telepathy (Su) for further examination barring any issues with the abilities listed above.

Thanks for the input!

Bykov.

[bykov]

In AD&D a round was 1 minute and a turn was 10 rounds. In the conversion of the 3e aboleth, the MM kept the time duration for the incubation of the Slime (Ex) ability, taking 1d4+1 minutes and 1d12 damage every 10 minutes. To me this seemed to make the slime a non-factor in combat.

In my revision, I modified the slime to take effect in 1d4+1 rounds and 1d12 damage per minute.

Was this too aggresive, or does it accomplish what I think it does and make the slime a combat effective ability? Should it be?

Thanx!

Bykov.

[bykov]

OK, I have three items I would like to discuss:

1) Should the standard telepathy range increase with age category or stay at 100' throughout the progression? If it should advance, any ideas on the progression?

My thought is currently either 100'/200'/300'/400'/500'/750'/1000' or 25'/ 2 HD

2) I having been stuck on certain aspects of the ecology. The first being the Common aboleth being able to contact its superior Greater aboleth to collect slave and the ability of the Grand to communicate with Rulers at a range of 10000 miles. This has brought me to the idea of adding the ability Telepathic Link (Su). This would grant a longer distance communication with select members of an aboleth society. So the common might have 100 mile range to contact the greater aboleth for whom it is gathering slaves. It then also would align with the grand aboleth being able to be linked with the rulers in its dominion at 10000 miles.

In addition, this link could be used to bind servitors to their masters, either at the same range or a significantly lesser range.

Any thoughts?

3) Should the radius for slaves (those not made into servitors) be equal to 1 mile per age category? The ecology gives us 1 mile for common & noble and 2 miles for greater, ruler, & grand.

Thank you!!!

Bykov.

[freyar]

I'm thinking:

1) Keep 100' range throughout
2) Add the telepathic link, including servitors at a reduced range
3) Go 1 mi/age category, sure!

[bykov]

OK, with that, here is what I have for the Common Aboleth:

Telepathic Link (Su): A common aboleth possesses a telepathic link with the greater aboleth for which it gathers slaves out to a distance of 100 miles. They can communicate telepathically. Because of this link, one has the same connection to an item or place that the other does. For instance, if the common aboleth has seen a location, its greater aboleth could teleport into that room as if it had seen it too.
A common aboleth also possesses a telepathic link with all servitors under its control out to a distance of 10 miles.
Telepathy (Su): A common aboleth can communicate telepathically with any other creature within 100 ft. that has a language. A common aboleth can also communicate telepathically with any of its slaves (1-mile radius) and with any aboleth (10-mile radius).

In the progression of age, I will keep telepathy at 100' with all other creatures. Telepathy with enslaved creatures will progress at 1 mile per age category (1/2/3/4/5/6/7 (all in miles)). For telepathy with any other aboleth the progression will be 10/20/50/100/200/500/1000 (all in miles).

The same progression will be used for aboleth/servitor telepathic link and it will be 10× that for specific connections, such as a common aboleth to a specific greater.

Let me know if I missed something.

Thanks!
Bykov.

[bykov]

Memory Siphon (Su): An aboleth consumes the memories of any creature it ingests. Any creature the aboleth consumes must succeed a Fort save (DC 18) or have its memories siphoned as though by a mindwipe psionic power (ML 10th, 2 negative levels*), except that negative levels gained in this way are permanent. The save DC is Charisma-based.

This is how I originally wrote up the Memory Siphon ability. One thing I have surmised and have since tried to do is eliminate an ability mimicking a psionic power for ease of use. Flavor wise, mindwipe is perfect, but not everyone uses/understands psionics (I disregarded them completely until recently). yet again, I have three different ways to resolve it:

1) Keep it psionic. If this is the case, the aboleths ability would increase 1 negative level per 3 manifester levels (or HD since they are linearly proportionate)

2) Change mindwipe to enervate (the spell equivalent). This would make the ability 1d4 negative levels per round. I would likely give this a +1 per age category beyond the first, making the Grand Rulers ability 1d4+6 negative levels per round.

3) Pitch the 'like spell/power' aspect and go straight ability drain. The original mindwipe in the Complete Psionics Handbook was 1 INT + 1 WIS + 1 Level of drain. In that ilk, Memory Siphon could be 1d4 INT + 1d4 WIS drain per round plus 1 INT + 1 WIS per age category above common. For me, this is one place that negative levels makes absolute sense, but managing negative levels can be cumbersome.

I do like the 1 INT + 1 WIS + 1 Level, but I think it may be a bit much to manage, even if it would only happen once some poor PC was swallowed by an aboleth. As I said, I very rarely agree with the use of negative levels, but with an aboleth siphoning off your memory, thus your experiences (or XP!) it makes perfect sense.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Bykov.

[freyar]

Since I think you're doing everything psionic, either keep mindwipe or just explicitly state the effect. I'd probaby not do it per round but just go for 1d4 Int, 1d4 Wis, and maybe a negative level per age category or something.

[bykov]

Originally Posted by freyar

Since I think you're doing everything psionic, either keep mindwipe or just explicitly state the effect. I'd probaby not do it per round but just go for 1d4 Int, 1d4 Wis, and maybe a negative level per age category or something.

Interesting, so go massive assault on the intellect of the creature but less often. Makes sense. I can't see it being a one time deal, but I see your point that once per round is a bit excessive.

What do you think of:

1d4 INT + 1d4 WIS + [1 Neg. Level per Age Category]. Ability Drain increases w/ size (1d6 Garg.; 1d8 Colossal). Once every minute, thus giving a victim 10 rounds to either cut his/her way out or be saved by the victim's comrades. (Round is 6 seconds, right?). I figure if you go any longer the victim will have been cut to ribbons by the esophagus, preventing any further extraction of mind snacks.

I like the default being psionic, as the creature has always been psionic; however, I will put magical equivalent SLAs in an under bar.

Groovy.

Bykov.