Chew on this.

Undying Redeemer · 4th February 2008, 02:48 PM

Ah, it seems.. things the Magi have brought about are going out of control..

What to do... When the rules you set in place are no longer followed and you must lock down... everyone for a mistake you made.

I foresee something ladies and gentlemen.. Something none of the players here... want to see.

A falling out.. the fading away of this oh so highly tainted RP site... Maybe for good... Maybe for bad.

Maybe.. we should all go else where to RP? Because.. for what I see, things are not good in the Moderation side of this site.

I know, it will not be long before this thread is gone.. poof.. vanished from existance so I will make plenty a copy so everyone can see.

Take a close look at those who run this site. Tell me, what do you see? Opinions... opinions...

I see.. tyranny.. I see.. that maybe only Magi Nashira is actually for righteousness here... I see.. that there is no fun in having a character whom can't be who you want them to be.. because quote: "Characters never trump CoC.. ever."

How... sad.

Open your eyes fellow RPers and think. Will you stand by an be held on a leash, kept from that which you think could be fun. Or would you go elsewhere, move in a pack to another place where no rules like these here render your character so.. bland.

I could easily pull out more.. but.. I am curious as to what this might bring up.. Will I be.. banned.. Preached to, chewed up and spit out via numerous replies?

Don't fret, darlings, for I won't reply to this thread. But I will be watching.

Sienna_Rose · 4th February 2008, 02:58 PM

I won't tell anyone that they have to leave. But, I will point out - and I hope you take this as politely as it is intended - the Code of Conduct has always been over characters. That's how it's been since we moved to ENWorld, and, though my memory is too bad to recall, I believe we had at least some rules back on Wizards.
If you prefer not to have rules, yes, there are other places to play. If you don't mind the rules, or even like them (I'm enough of a goody two shoes that, yes, I like having rules), then remain. No one is forcing anyone to stay.

cameroth · 4th February 2008, 03:01 PM

i'm not sure if i would call it tyranny, but i do agree with the lack of moderation as per my post. I also do agree with the fact that, eventually, people will lose interest in this site and migrate to others like THE DEN that allow a *anything goes* attitude.

Willow_Calypso · 4th February 2008, 03:05 PM

The Den has been online as long as EnWorld ISRP. No migration yet. Hell, I look forward to the massive migration, because these attitudes only make it harder on everyone, even the ones who enjoy the site the way it is.

Why is it so hard to grasp the concept that you can have these stranger epic characters battle it out? Just do it in the room created for those battles. Real hard.

Mayu Amakura · 4th February 2008, 03:20 PM

*giggles* Well well. I'm wondering, is this just another person complaining or could this actually go somewhere?

cameroth · 4th February 2008, 03:35 PM

*sigh* well here it goes...i realize that the rules have always been in place, but whats the point if you cant enforce ALL the rules ALL the time?...that's like telling a 4yr old dont stick your hand in the fire and then leave him all by himself next to a fire. You are just asking for trouble

Willow_Calypso · 4th February 2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cameroth

*sigh* well here it goes...i realize that the rules have always been in place, but whats the point if you cant enforce ALL the rules ALL the time?...that's like telling a 4yr old dont stick your hand in the fire and then leave him all by himself next to a fire. You are just asking for trouble

We're not 4 years olds.

Mayu Amakura · 4th February 2008, 03:45 PM

I don't think he was calling anyone a 4 year old, it was a reference.

cameroth · 4th February 2008, 03:45 PM

no we are not...but the analogy is still the same...rules will be broken without constant supervision, its plain and totally obvious or we wouldnt even be talking about this would we?

Willow_Calypso · 4th February 2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayu Amakura

I don't think he was calling anyone a 4 year old, it was a reference.

I realize that. And I was trying to reference that we're not children, that we're adults and know the difference between right and wrong - what consequences are. *facepalms*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cameroth

no we are not...but the analogy is still the same...rules will be broken without constant supervision, its plain and totally obvious or we wouldnt even be talking about this would we?

And they did do constant supervision and there was constant complaining because of it, or no one played, because no one likes big brother lurking over their shoulder all the time.

Sienna_Rose · 4th February 2008, 03:52 PM

Since we are not 4 year olds, we should not *require* constant supervision. Most of us are adults, or close to it (speaking of legal age of being adults)- or at least all old enough to grasp the idea of "This is a rule, it must be followed".
The idea of constant supervision is more like insisting that there be enough police along the highway every mile so that no one will speed.

Anyway, rules is rules. We're old enough to decide whether we want to play on a site that has rules and moderators (the question of whether or not there are enough of said moderators aside). No need for fuss or muss.

cameroth · 4th February 2008, 03:56 PM

as i stated before, why have rules at all if you cant enforce ALL the rules ALL the time?..because as it is, you can get into trouble for a rule you broke 2-3 days ago which would obviously enrage the person getting into trouble because the magi finally got to reading the posts to see if any rules were violated in the first place. its just plain ridiculous to impose rules on players in a quote.."FREE FORM PLATFORM" unquote...whats so free about that? everyone is quick to spout the *free form* title, but in all reality, its not totally free form is it?

Ruthia · 4th February 2008, 04:00 PM

I want to state first and for most. THESE ARE MY OPPINIONS! They are a reflection of what I personally feel, not anyone else.

Den has some rules, given certain rooms. For example the room myself and Imreis run has a "No bared weapons" rule. Sure you can get in a fist fight, as long as there isn't a lot of broken funiture or blood all over the place then it's all good.

Yeah Den does have fewer rules then ISRP. It's suppose to, for those of us who really just can't stand having to watch every second of an RP to make sure we are following rules.

One thing I have noticed, and a good reason why I'm barely on anymore myself, is that the CoC and setting rules are open to the interpitation of the Magi on duty. Which is what I think leads to the rule breaking to begin with. Your on one day and a Magi allows this or that to happen. The next day you do the same thing and another Magi yells at you for it. For Example. I had a Magi get on my case because it stated in my dessy that the character "Seems to be clothingless" Thats all. No descriptions, no inuendos, nothing. Yet the very next night I watch some other character do a very erotic, and a lot more descriptive then my dessy was, strip tease. I asked about it and was told "Well it depends on the interpitation of the Magi who's there" So....basically if the Magi doesn't like you they can pick through every one of your RPs with a fine tooth comb and heap as much trouble as possible on you........alright thats nice to know.

I know the first arguement thats going to pop up. "Well the rules are simple to read and follow." Um...no acctually several of the rules aren't very easy to interpet. For example, the no sexual referances one. I hate to say it but on a bad day hell Everything I SAY can be a sexual referance. Obviously there are blatent ones, example "pocket pool", but what about the not so obvious ones? Or heck what about the ones that only mean something to that character and prehaps a select handful of people who know that character IC??? AND does that give the right to assume that if it's known about OOC that it can be used to get someone you don't like in trouble?

Or, and yes I'm bringing it up again as I have since this rule was MADE, the Familiars rule.

Quote:

Familiars of magic using sorts are allowed if accompanied by their masters,

Yet again I ask, WHAT is a familiar??? Not everyone plays D&D, I don't, so I was very very upset when I was told my characters familiar wasn't allowed in. He was a very tiny dragon like creature that spent most of his time wrapped around Ruthia's neck and stealing from ehr cup or plate. I was told it wasn't allowed because the towns folk would freak out. Um.....Ruthia never walks through town for one, she ports directly to the area she wants to be in order to avoid villiagers. And two even if she did walk through town her little guy was smart enough to hide himself in her coat or cloak. "Well he's a dragon like creature, and dragons are against the rules too" Ok, fine you have me there. BUT, how come people can play horses or what not in the garden? Is it just because they don't get caught? Or are only certain players being watch, which if thats the case then thats BS. Sorry, but it is. Watching certain players more closely then others is a load of BS, especially when all should be treated fairly.

Another one I want to bring up. Harrassment. I had a PLAYER who was for a given amount of time going out of his/her way to Harrass me both IC and OOC. When I complained about it I was told "Tell him to stop OOC" I did, it didn't stop. It got worse in fact. So I asked for help again and got "Well unless wesee it happen we can't do anything about it." WTF! So basically I was told, shut up and deal with it? This went on for MONTHS!

All this leads me to one huge and sad conclusion. That I, and many others, aren't welcome here. Our type aren't wanted around, this site is becoming exclusive to the friends of a few people. *shrugs* Thats fine. I take my RPing elsewhere as often as I can now. Only reason I come here anymore is because I have one or two friends still left on this site.

And again, I want to state first and for most. THESE ARE MY OPPINIONS! They are a reflection of what I personally feel, not anyone else.

Willow_Calypso · 4th February 2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cameroth

as i stated before, why have rules at all if you cant enforce ALL the rules ALL the time?..because as it is, you can get into trouble for a rule you broke 2-3 days ago which would obviously enrage the person getting into trouble because the magi finally got to reading the posts to see if any rules were violated in the first place. its just plain ridiculous to impose rules on players in a quote.."FREE FORM PLATFORM" unquote...whats so free about that? everyone is quick to spout the *free form* title, but in all reality, its not totally free form is it?

It comes down to it being a moderated site. You agreed to abide by the CoC (freeform or not) when you decided to play here. When the Magi were met with the complaint that players wanted more freedom, they made more rooms. It isn't anyones fault but the players who don't want to use the rooms that were made specifically for it.

Naturally not everyone is going to be pleased, but I think Siani and Gabe have gone out of their ways to give everyone a little of what they wanted.

cameroth · 4th February 2008, 04:11 PM

making more rooms isnt going to solve the fact of restrictions on characters to roam wherever they want as they are..as it was stated, not everyone here plays or is familiar with D&D settings or rules for that matter..most people as ruthia stated for herself, dont roam the areas of normal humans..its assumed that they do when in fact most dont have anything to do with the "outside world" unless they are currently involved in that world already with other players either OOC or through the carpe dm..Ruthia i love your post, it brings up so many valid points, thank you

Sienna_Rose · 4th February 2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthia

Another one I want to bring up. Harrassment. I had a PLAYER who was for a given amount of time going out of his/her way to Harrass me both IC and OOC. When I complained about it I was told "Tell him to stop OOC" I did, it didn't stop. It got worse in fact. So I asked for help again and got "Well unless wesee it happen we can't do anything about it." WTF! So basically I was told, shut up and deal with it? This went on for MONTHS!

This sort of thing should be captured in a log and sent to the Magi. That way, they see it and can do something about it. They can't watch all the time, so, supplying that sort of information is helpful.

If you feel you've been singled out (this applies to anyone), take it to another Magi. There is the general magi email; and there are individual emails for the magi as well. Gabe listed both his and Siani's in his post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cameroth

"FREE FORM PLATFORM" unquote...whats so free about that? everyone is quick to spout the *free form* title, but in all reality, its not totally free form is it?

Free form is what allows us to have characters made without actually following a specific set of published rules. A lot of us choose to have D&D characters, some have White Wolf - those are the main two, really. And, of course, they can be made without those guidelines at all and be completely concept.
There are some rules, as listed in the CoC and the Setting Rules - those must be followed because this is a moderated site. Not only are there the Magi to enforce our own rules for ISRP, but, ENWorld has rules as well.

Bystander Extreme · 4th February 2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthia

All this leads me to one huge and sad conclusion. That I, and many others, aren't welcome here. Our type aren't wanted around, this site is becoming exclusive to the friends of a few people. *shrugs* Thats fine. I take my RPing elsewhere as often as I can now. Only reason I come here anymore is because I have one or two friends still left on this site.

Moderator Judgement

You may ask for an explanation, explain your case, and even go to a higher Moderator, if you disagree with this judgment.

If you feel singled out. Contact the Head Magi. ISRPMagi@gmail.com.

For those who don't play AD&D it isn't neccesary (to know the AD&D format) to understand the Setting Rules. Read them. They haven't changed. It explains what is allowed and what isn't.

The Crossroads Tavern Setting
The Rotunda Setting
The Bazaar Setting
The Meeting Place Setting
and last but not least
Code of Conduct

Tyrian_Spellstealer · 4th February 2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undying Redeemer

I see.. that there is no fun in having a character whom can't be who you want them to be.. because quote: "Characters never trump CoC.. ever."

I'm sorry, but the code of conduct is the reason I keep coming back to this site. It offers security in a controlled environment which is very hard to find elsewhere. If I didn't like it, or the way the moderators handle things here, I'd of left already. No, I'm staying right here - that code of conduct stops people coming on this site who want to play characters which are rapists and tortures. Or, more accurately, who want other people to see them doing such acts.

Just my "opinions".

Ruthia · 4th February 2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sienna_Rose

If you feel you've been singled out (this applies to anyone), take it to another Magi. There is the general magi email; and there are individual emails for the magi as well. Gabe listed both his and Siani's in his post.

I did. And was told the same thing. Oh and that it's open to the Magi's interpitation of how the rule was broken. I've been told that by several of them.

I guess I'm just asking one thing. On those sort of rules can't the Magi pick one standard and stick to it? I know it's suppose to be more open and such but like, the nudity thing. Ok is it to hard to have them all agree that it's allowed with description? Or not allowed at all???

Bari · 4th February 2008, 04:27 PM

I see nothing wrong with the rules. With those who enforce them? Well I haven't had any personal bad experiences, but heard of lots of people who had. However, e-mailing sounds so... well. I don't like it. I imagine that Matrix scene with Neo and the agents. You're alone there, they can misunderstand what you say and if they do, they could just close and not let you explain. It's hypothethical, it's never happened to me. Because, let's face it, you're "Magi" and you can ban you and the like, but you are still people, and can still make mistakes. Not that you think you think you can't, but it's a clarification for those who might say I'm trying to attack you or something here.

I'd propose a new, small forum, for players who got 'scolded' so to speak and want to discuss it. And I think that outside people actually -should- be able to give their opinions on the matter. And I don't limit myself to 'witnesses' here, but everyone. This is supposed to be a family site, let's behave like a family and not like lawyers.

PS: And I also propose that we stop getting our posts edited or deleted. I knooooow we agreed to it and all that... but yet I think that should be changed. Things are never going to improve if people see the magi as dictators - and censorship just comes to build up on that idea.