The setting of Forgotten Realms - Location - PreVote Discussion

The setting of Forgotten Realms has been selected by a majority to replace the setting of Juxtaposition as a main chat room setting in ISRP.

The purpose of this discussion is to present the locations within Forgotten Realms that you feel would be best suited for our uses and why.

At the end of the discussion the locations will be compiled, given a cursory look over by the ISRP team, and presented for another vote.

This discussion will ideally close by Wednesday July 13, 2005.

Well, I suppose it all depends on what "everyone" really wants. And how much people want to acknowledge the setting. So, a generic location selected/created by the staff to suit the desire for players to do whatever they wish and be able to play whatever they want would be reasonable option.

The location should definitely be in Faerûn though. Wizards of the Coast will not (and has no desire to) offer any support for regions such as Kara-Tur, the Hordelands, etc. in the new edition.

Now, onto some actual locales!

Waterdeep: By and large everyone knows of the City of Splendors, if only by name. It's fairly tolerant of races, though people begin to get unnerved from drow and upwards. Perhaps something could be worked up with the Lords, since the presence of a Thayan enclave has been good for the economy. Perhaps a Bazaar of the Bizarre would be even more so! If they could be ensured wards are in place to keep the more...unnatural denizens out of the city.

The Muzhahajaarnadah (Dark Calimport): The dark bazaars of the Calimport underworld contain no restrictions. From demon lords to archmages of other worlds to dragons. The only problem is...it's pretty evil. Though these dark bazaars to contain powers that would keep the place from being a utterly lawless anarchy (violence gets one ejected by the Gray Callers). And so, they get poofed to the combat room!

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Silverymoon is out of the question, its mythal would keep some patrons from entering (evil demons, devils, dragon, drow, duergar, giants, goblinoids, mindflayers, orcs, and trolls). And even if they got by the mythal, they couldn't stroll around openly.

Cormyr is a no-go, too low magic and wary of masses of foreigners.

TMP already has a nice seedy, evil feel going on with it, so Dark Calimport might not be the best option. Some place a tad more relaxed would probably be better.

TMP doesn't affect this, 'cause it's not "fantasy". It's "modern, with some fantasy and some sci-fi." And to be honest right now there's like no evil there. Oh, evil exists, I just haven't seen it in over a month. :P

I think the kind of place where all sorts could meet would be best and that sounds more like the Dark Calimport or similar. It'd be cool to have a place where it's the "good" characters that have to watch themselves... lol! Neither of the other settings is that.

Personally, I'm against Dark Calimport because I play several characters that may find themselves a little uncomfortable in CRT (depending on how the vote goes) and will seek friendly surroundings elsewhere (ie, in the Emporium, which will be set on Faerûn)....in any event, in Waterdeep, where their primary crop is conspiracies (says Laeral in Greenwood's Silverfall), everyone would have to watch themselves.

Against Waterdeep, I'm not, though I'd like to throw another place into the mix.

The Dalelands are in the middle of all kinds of things, and who's to say that we couldn't drop some random village or trading post amongst them? The Dales, given their proximity to Zhentil Keep and other such nasty places, has been frequented by folks of questionable repute for a very, very long time, and is also the home of a lot of good folk. There's also a lot of old woodland out there where another village or whatnot could be hiding, if we didn't want to put it within the confines of a specific dale.

Just my pocket full of coppers....

I'm also against Dark Calmiport as its harder to justify some of my characters being there (though oddly easier than many other places for others). Silverymoon is deffiantly out, though. And I don't think Waterdeep is overly appropiate. Mostly as it seems too...Large (for lack of better terms).

Personally I think somewhere like Westgate would be appropiate, not too large a city (like waterdeep) but a kind of loose lawed city. however I am not a realms afficindo so I can't be overly exact...just would be a nice to have a setting where the IC-laws wouldn't be intense.

The city of Raven's Bluff might be a possibility, but only if it doesn't step on the RPGA's toes, since they use that setting for their "Living City" FR-based campaign...

What about Baldur's Gate? I seem to find very little in-depth information on that city, since I've never played the computer-based games. (Same goes for Neverwinter.)

The Dalelands: It really defeats the purpose of having selected the Realms if we just drop in our own generic village/whatever. It is an option, but maybe suggest an established locale? Otherwise we could have just voted homebrew and made the Plane of McPlaindia.

Westgate: Westgate is a metropolis, not as big as Waterdeep, but big cities are big cities. If anyone is worried about large, all major cities should be avoided. Nothing is ever going to happen to Waterdeep (to radically change it), but Westgate is very unstable. It is likely the city will be the focus of a future Realms event/novel series. There is law (it isn't exactly the Wild West), there just isn't a lot of morality when it comes to business.

The city does have its merits though, it has high racial tolerance and the "anything goes and everything has a price" attitude. Evil outsiders/fiends and undead (yet) don't fit into that tolerance. There is also a thieves' guild, lead by a cabal of vampires bent on turning the Dragon Coast into an unholy Night Kingdom paradise for the undead, that secretly controls the city and is slowly bringing ruling merchant/noble houses under it sway. So, yeah, the ultimate fate of the city in the coming years is uncertain at best. And if we are just going to ignore what happenes in the Realms, then again..Plane of McCitydia.

Ravens Bluff: Don't know much about it. I'm just going to say the RPGA liscensed the Living City campaign out to Organized Play and they charge money for members to participate in the campaign. I wouldn't be worried about stepping on their toes.

Baldur's Gate: I like it. Similar tolerances as Westgate with the "trade knows no alignment, so tolerance is a virture" perspective and it is a safe bet to remain fairly stable for years to come. Barring a war between the local thieves' guild and Shadow Thieves of Amn. As with just about anywhere we pick in the Realms though, evil outsider/undead players are going to have to tighten their belts. I'd vote for this one though.

Neverwinter is probably just as good an option as the Gate too.

The other good thing with the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter settings would be that it would also bring in new patrons who have played the game. That and some players that are already here, that don't play D&D have played Neverwinter at some point and they'd at least know a little about it.

Ruins of Myth Drannor could be fun.

First off, thanky you for running the vote fairly, and reolving the tie in a very acceptable way, I tihnk it was by far the best option you took.

As for the location in Faerun:

I actually don't think Waterdeep is the best place. It is too well documented, known, played in games and a mite too iconic. Having it off stage also keeps it's specialness while keeping it alive.

Some suggestions depending on the 'feel' we want:

Westgate is a prime, seedy city with some very dark goings on behind the scenes if you want that

Marsember in Cormyr would make for a smaller city with a similar, but not so intense seedy feel

Arabel in Cormyr would be a classic 'Caravan' city that might feel right for it's sense of 'movement of people'

(Though in both Cormyr city cases as has been noted, the law is pretty strong, though Marsember negates that to a degree)

The Dales have been mentioned, so a good Dale setting that isn't 'too elvy' or 'too' anything else, would be Harrowdale Town which has become a thriving small port

Raven's Bluff has some of Waterdeep's problems in that it has been very well detailed, plus the Living City throwback, but could suit...at least for a BIG high fantasy city I'd put that at the top of the list, certainly better than Waterdeep

For an 'evil' city I'd suggest one on the shores of the Moonsea rather than 'Dark Calimport' myself, such as Mulmaster

Lastly, for the odd, middle of nowhere, unimportant location, try Corm Orp in the Western Heartlands...halfling village anyone?

(Wrong thread. Continue! Delete me!)

If someone insists on an "evil city," might I suggest Sshamath? A non-traditional drow city run by wizards, where no deity is widely venerated. Outsiders (even surface-dwelling elves) are tolerated there, as long as they come to conduct business and don't do anything disruptive.

Personally though, I'd rather have the setting be on the surface, where creepy creatures are the exception, rather than the rule...

Originally Posted by Nevine

Cormyr is a no-go, too low magic and wary of masses of foreigners.

Too low-magic? It's the most highly regimented magical nation in the Heartlands besides Shade. You just can't cast spells willy nilly without consequences, so it actually has order.

PLUS the fact it has a portal network already within it, which is quite similiar to the CRT. Low-magic.. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Mikal

Too low-magic? It's the most highly regimented magical nation in the Heartlands besides Shade. You just can't cast spells willy nilly without consequences, so it actually has order.

PLUS the fact it has a portal network already within it, which is quite similiar to the CRT. Low-magic.. :rolleyes:

Yes, the War Wizards are highly organized, that doesn't make them all archmages though. Just look at Caladnei's power in comparison to Vangey's as the Royal Magician.

PLUS the fact the nation is coming out of the war with the Devil Dragon which decimated the ranks of the military (in comparison to what it was before, not as in they are helpless) and the conflict with Shade.

For our purposes, it is too low magic given the average patrons (and I don't mean that insultingly) and the fact that they wouldn't likely abide Cormyr's casting laws. That, and the types of races allowed would definitely be severely limited. It is also a nation struggling to maintain its identity from foreign influence now that the barbarians are at the gate (Sembia, Zhents, Dragon Coast/West Gate/Fire Knives). The region hasn't settled down and, at Adele's request, a location needs to be stable. Cormyr's story is not yet done being told, or rather not at a point where it isn't likely to be involved in novels for a while.

Of course, since you seem to have such keen knowledge of the region you already knew that. Had you paid attention to the discussion from the Juxta prevote until now, you would know Cormyr isn't suitable.

Instead, you went and spewed out an inane spiel without offering up any suggestions. Which is the entire point of the thread. But, I guess saying how much you don't like someone elses idea (even though we aren't voting yet) has also become a part of it, so whatever. Nice contribution to the discussion, I'm sure it really helped.

Nice going, Ace. Really.

:rolleyes:

See, I can use the little smiley as well to be a complete jerk.

Let's not fall into personal arguements folks. ISRP's had enough of those in the past while to last a very long time.

Besides. It appears that you're both right, just in different ways. The inappropriateness/inability for the masses to use high magic doesn't make it a low magic local. But it does affect what people will and won't be able to do.

Discuss and debate the setting facts, not each other. Leave it at that?

- Pounamu

it has to be somewhere near the water. so of course Waterdeep is high on my list. it's also the place I'm most familiar with.

Anyway..

Abbey of the Sword/Essembra: The abbey lies five miles southwest of the large town of Essembra in Battledale. Beneath the abbey is a portal to Sigil perhaps, since they are so pressed by the drow, they could convince Essembra to open a market in their town to cater to extraplanar travellers that may pop out of the portal in order to raise money. They'd need some form of help to pull this off, possibly extraplanar itself.

Thayan Enclave: Not really an actual location, so much as a hook. Perhaps some Red Wizards have decided to open a portal in one of their enclaves for some extra business. They'll take it upon themselves to keep things in order and keep the more exotic/dangerous being out of whichever city.

Enclave Locations: Athkatla, Baldur's Gate, Calaunt, Calimport, Cimbar, Hillsfar, Hlath, Hlondeth, Innarlith, Iriaebor, Marsember, Messemprar, Mulmaster, Procampur, Ravens Bluff, Saerloon, Scardale, Scornubel, Soorenar, Telflamm, Waterdeep, Westgate, and Yhaunn.

I'm only providing contingencies for the free-for-all option, instead of destroying another locations original concept later. So, if you don't like them, don't tell me about it.

I agree with Baldurs gate it is well known, I also have personal IC reasons but will leave them out also if you all would like I can post some of the more popular cities descrition straight from the books, if people think that will halp them to know more about the cities.

I think that waterdeep might also be a good place as well, but I also think that we need to find a place where the hordes and hordes of Undead and drow can play there role......many of the undead had seemed to find there home in Juxta so they will mosy likely come along to the new setting.

I think that Amn would be a fun setting as well though I am not totally sure of the racial tolerance (please fill me in on that if you are in the know)

Once again thank you for keeping the voting fair, and thanks for all the info on the settings so far Nevine.

here's a question. is there anyplace that ISN'T hostile to drow/other evilly aligned beings? after all all of the evil is weeks from being voted right out of the ONLY tavern. odds are the marketplace will be treated as a tavern, just like juxta is. people go, sit, eat... only occasionally do people actually buy things there that aren't food or drink related. when they do they have to "talk" to NPC vendors that never actually say anything since they aren't really there until someone says they are. which brings up another point,

if we don't have some actual insentive to make people play merchants, we'll still have no one that wants to buy things. people don't really LIKE talking to imaginary vendors. is there something we can do about this? are there any people that want to PLAY vendors?

THere are people who have vendors. Adele has/had a list of them. But they're not always played and when they are they're not always responded to.

As for undead, if Juxta's anything to judge by it won't matter if there's a reason for them to be there. On Juxta there was a big reason for them not to be there. They should have been noticably weakened or even kicked off the plane. But I ever saw anyone playing that, so why should it matter elsewhere?