TMP Description clear-up.

[Magatsu]

I will probably be warned for this but I wanted to know if the TMP discription could be more descriptive. If it is a futuristic night club the description reads more like stage cafe. Its just lacking any personal touch.

If I am wrong and it is not a -New York- night club then never mind.

[Magi_Gabriel]

Hmmmm. It's an up market New York nightclub which has a feature wall of a "zoo" of exotic reptiles and fish, the description as follows:

"A sophisticated nightclub in 2031 with a polished tile floors and colored lights flashing from the ceiling. Along the front wall is the "zoo" of exotic reptiles and fish while a well stocked bar runs along the back. Tables, a dance floor and a modest stage fill the rest of the room with a set of stairs leading up to a security locked door at one end of the bar."

The year needs to be updated when a certain lazy chat admin gets home from work. To a certain extent we want it to stay fairly "generic" so as to allow a diversity of characters (rather than just one particular subculture). So with that in mind, what kind of personal touches is it lacking?

[Laura Jarron]

Originally Posted by Magi_Gabriel

So with that in mind, what kind of personal touches is it lacking?

I keep hearing "dancing girls" if that helps. Of course, that person may have been asking for a private dance. I don't know.

[Magatsu]

Being a night club in any traditional sense, atleast the ones I have visited, have well multi level dance floors, how about tables and chairs? wall lounge booths. usually more dark for the light shows that constantly go on as well as the music generally heard from all areas bumping across the dance floors as well as anything else.

--It is the year 2032. Mankind has made contact with extraterrestrial life and technology is advancing. So what if some people say that mutants are appearing? This place looks human enough. This is New York City and business is booming. The clubs come alive after dark and this one catches your attention. The music’s pumping, and there’s no metal detector on the door. Do you want to sit or do you want to dance? There’s plenty of room for both inside. So come in, have a drink.--

This to me is vague in a good way, offering the player his/her own personal experience of what a nightclub is. Noting music and it being a happening place. blah blah blah.

The one current says, "You walk into a club it has a bar, the rest of the place is dancefloor, door and some stage. have fun."

What if I want a screw driver? Or an After Burn for a drink, do I ask the sambot or just go to another place, why not offer that there is a human bartender if the sambot isn't shaking up anything thats to your liking?

I don't know what I am asking, but I guess I as I said, would like a more personal touch.

Even the old TMP had a DJ that took requests, How about large panel screen tvs for Vidoes playing with the music or just effect, and on its more dead moments you can flip through news or even sport events.


What bothered me though is that when I narrate NPCs moving around, people assume im the idiot, but I always give them my explination - How would a happening nightclub in New York survive off a max of 9 patrons a night paying a cover charger or just a few drinks? I thought it was common sense to assume the players are not the only ones there, its like saying that the Sigil room has shops and good but with no merchants or patrons to shop in it, only those that are Player characters in the room at the time.

[Magi_Gabriel]

I believe you may wish to look at the menu option Settings - The Meeting Place

Which contains more detailed information about the interior, exterior and rules of the place. Sambot is present because, like CRT, the human bartenders are the site staff who appear. When we first started we had them pretty regularly, unfortunately as we no longer get paid and we now have far fewer hosts they are not so common.

Players are free to improv ordering non-standard drinks (except Mountain Dew) from Sambot, who serves the same purpose that Bargolem does. The place is meant to look "human" so as to allow people in without having to be shocked/scared etc by the unusual visitors. Same principle as CRT.

Without seeing what you're emoting for other patrons non-player, I can't comment on whether it is appropriate or not. Generally though they are treated as they are in CRT, the Rotunda and the Bazaar. They are there but generally not interacting with the individuals or controlled by any individual player.

[Mission_Poster]

Originally Posted by Magi_Gabriel

Players are free to improv ordering non-standard drinks (except Mountain Dew) from Sambot, who serves the same purpose that Bargolem does.

... but we love Mountain Dew!

[Magatsu]

Well since most people go by what the description says when you enter the room, how hard would it be to up-date it, as I said, the earlier TMP description was I thought alittle better.


To do with the NPC's I assume they are not to be controlled and rarely noticed, its just bothersome to "watch others on the dance floor" then another player comments saying "There is only two people in the club, so how can anyone else be dancing."

I never assumed that characters could manipulate anything like that.

I guess I am going to continue to assume there are humans at work their for the point of, who cleans the bar? straightens up the establishment, collects glasses, counts the till, makes sure security is doing their part. (door man that use to be there?) or just making sure no one is raising to much hell? or does this sambot do all of that?

Anyhow just though it would bet abit nicer.

[Magi_Gabriel]

Um, the current description is quite literally copy and pasted from the old description when we first opened the room and the setting information copy and pasted from the setting pages we had back then so I'm really lost how the "earlier" one was better.

Sambot is capable of handling pretty much all of the standard bar functions and there is another bot who we used to bring out who did the maintenance and cleaning work during "quiet" hours (those hours when there are no customers around). So live workers such as Gabriel are few.

[Sienna_Rose]

Originally Posted by Magatsu

To do with the NPC's I assume they are not to be controlled and rarely noticed, its just bothersome to "watch others on the dance floor" then another player comments saying "There is only two people in the club, so how can anyone else be dancing."

I never assumed that characters could manipulate anything like that.

I guess I am going to continue to assume there are humans at work their for the point of, who cleans the bar? straightens up the establishment, collects glasses, counts the till, makes sure security is doing their part. (door man that use to be there?) or just making sure no one is raising to much hell? or does this sambot do all of that?

Anyhow just though it would bet abit nicer.

I've never seen anyone fuss about a mention of dancers - in fact, I've seen several people mention 'gets lost in the crowd on the dance floor', 'moves among the dancers', 'makes his (or her) way through the crowd to the bar'. . .
And, almost everyone I've seen mentions showing ID to the bouncers, or being waved in by the bouncers (some of the girls smile flirtingly at the bouncers )

Now, about narrating a human bartender - having something that specific, I do wonder about that.

Originally Posted by Magi_Gabriel

Which contains more detailed information about the interior, exterior and rules of the place. Sambot is present because, like CRT, the human bartenders are the site staff who appear. When we first started we had them pretty regularly, unfortunately as we no longer get paid and we now have far fewer hosts they are not so common.

Since the human bartenders are site staff, I would assume that, if there is no site staff present, there is no human bartender - that's what SAM is for, correct?

Just wondering to clarify - a human bartender would be someone very specific and have certain authority (another thread discussed playing people in authority), so that would be a bit different than narrating a bunch of nameless random NPCs. Yeah, I mentioned narrating the bouncers - but, I've only ever seen that used as an entrance, and no real action coming from them.

I don't think a dessie has to establish the presence of any NPCs - since it populates on the as everyone enters, I think it ought to be short and sweet. Especially since it is described in greater detail, as mentioned, under Settings. Just my two cents. I like the dessie. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, though, so, I'm not saying anyone's wrong.

Originally Posted by Magi_Gabriel

The year needs to be updated when a certain lazy chat admin gets home from work.

What year is it? I've been figuring 2032?

[Magatsu]

I guess the point is lost, I think the description lacks an real definition. but if you don't give a crap then I don't and I will continue to play this fantasy game as I see fit within the CoC and all that.

but I will assume because the sambot has a inadiquate selection I will order from a bartender, because even when the magi are there they seem alittle more involved with the conversation at hand then serving, greeting, doing what their I guess role is in the place. I could be wrong, this is just what I have seen.

This was a suggestion, that was all, but take it as a tread to validate reasons and why not to change it or atleast make it more appealing.

[Kalreil]

It seems to me that you lost your own point. If I am wrong, please post what you think the room description should be.

[Magatsu]

The point was, the description. Might be nice to have it say more, be more defined, something. Since there are not employees there to serve what the sambot can't and all this other such. I did not lose my point. Maybe you should reread it a few times, and then once more and note that what I asked was their at ever turn.

[Tharivious]

I think Kal is dead on here. Your point is self-contradicting.

Originally Posted by Magatsu

as I said, the earlier TMP description was I thought alittle better.

Just in case you missed it, in a post that was there before you added that sentence:

Originally Posted by Magi_Gabriel

Um, the current description is quite literally copy and pasted from the old description when we first opened the room and the setting information copy and pasted from the setting pages we had back then so I'm really lost how the "earlier" one was better.

He would know better than anyone where the current description came from. He put it there.

I'm not quite sure how something identical can be better than itself.

That aside, point by point dissection of the issues you've raised:

Originally Posted by Magatsu

Being a night club in any traditional sense, atleast the ones I have visited, have well multi level dance floors, how about tables and chairs? wall lounge booths. usually more dark for the light shows that constantly go on as well as the music generally heard from all areas bumping across the dance floors as well as anything else.

As Gabe said in his second post:

Originally Posted by Magi_Gabriel

"A sophisticated nightclub in 2031 with a polished tile floors and colored lights flashing from the ceiling. Along the front wall is the "zoo" of exotic reptiles and fish while a well stocked bar runs along the back. Tables, a dance floor and a modest stage fill the rest of the room with a set of stairs leading up to a security locked door at one end of the bar."

The year needs to be updated when a certain lazy chat admin gets home from work. To a certain extent we want it to stay fairly "generic" so as to allow a diversity of characters (rather than just one particular subculture).

Dance floor location is addressed. Light show is addressed. Stage is addressed should it be needed. Decoration is addressed in the form of the terrariums. Bar location is addressed. Intentionally vague music is addressed as the intent is to not alienate visitors by subculture, and the fact that it's a nightclub, so the music being on goes without need of mention. Lack of multiple-level dance floors is addressed, as the upper part of the building is occupied by something else.

Originally Posted by Magatsu

This to me is vague in a good way, offering the player his/her own personal experience of what a nightclub is. Noting music and it being a happening place. blah blah blah.

Aside from the fact that, as far as I remember from when I was actively contributing to the setting design of TMP in its preopening days, mutants and aliens were still considered very much tabloid rumour rather than hard fact... it's really just stating the obvious in a different way than the one we have now, and the current version is less specific by intent.

Originally Posted by Magatsu

The one current says, "You walk into a club it has a bar, the rest of the place is dancefloor, door and some stage. have fun."

Mocking what exists now is not a valid argument for change.

Originally Posted by Magatsu

What if I want a screw driver? Or an After Burn for a drink, do I ask the sambot or just go to another place, why not offer that there is a human bartender if the sambot isn't shaking up anything thats to your liking?

This has also been addressed by Gabe. S.A.M. (remember, Semi Automated Machine) was designed to be able to handle the bartending needs when live staffers weren't on shift. S.A.M. can handle it, because that's what it was built to do. If you don't want a preshaken martini from the machine, improv it as a wrapped set of vials coming out along with a mixer, and do it yourself. If someone else wants it the other way around, that's fine too.

Originally Posted by Magatsu

I don't know what I am asking, but I guess I as I said, would like a more personal touch.

And as has been said by Gabe, it's left vague on purpose.

Originally Posted by Magatsu

Even the old TMP had a DJ that took requests, How about large panel screen tvs for Vidoes playing with the music or just effect, and on its more dead moments you can flip through news or even sport events.

And then you run into issues of characters flipping through news stories that haven't been cleared with Brigid, which leads to entirely new issues. I don't know about you, but the bars that I go to don't generally give the patrons access to the controls of the screens, and preset video graphics tend to be too genre specific for a night club intentionally left generic to avoid needing eight different clubs for the various possible visitors.

Originally Posted by Magatsu

What bothered me though is that when I narrate NPCs moving around, people assume im the idiot, but I always give them my explination - How would a happening nightclub in New York survive off a max of 9 patrons a night paying a cover charger or just a few drinks? I thought it was common sense to assume the players are not the only ones there, its like saying that the Sigil room has shops and good but with no merchants or patrons to shop in it, only those that are Player characters in the room at the time.

And why is this part of an argument to change the room's description, when it implies that a small subgroup of visitors are ignoring the obvious?

Originally Posted by Magatsu

I guess the point is lost, I think the description lacks an real definition. but if you don't give a crap then I don't and I will continue to play this fantasy game as I see fit within the CoC and all that.

It's not a matter of anyone not caring (and that particular phrasing was a bit uncalled for, in my opinion, if what you say were the case, ISRP wouldn't be here for you to be making such claims), it's a matter of the point of the setting being lost on you.

And on an entirely different note:

Originally Posted by Sienna Rose

What year is it? I've been figuring 2032?

If my memory serves me right, TMP was either 25 or 30 years in the future. 2032 would be the earliest, 2037 would be the latest. Been a while though, since I haven't been in the room since running the Cage opening night.

[Magi_Gabriel]

What year is it? I've been figuring 2032?

Yes, it's 2032, the topbar always keeps the right date since I can make a dynamic file for that, the room description is strictly a *.txt file, that I forgot to update last night. D'oh!

[Magatsu]

Thar always has to come in and do something, its like a no fail system.


The TMP when it was first made I thought had more to it. The description. Oh well, and the rest of what you say is usually worthless anyhow. So I won't and did not actually read the entire thing.


But just as I do, you have this want to go in and shut people down. And I can't say a word because I do it to. But unless you have something to say besides pitting words back and forth, then say it. Like I said, If you did say I, I didn't read all of your post. sorry.

Again, the point, TMP why cant the description be changed up alittle to offer more?

Or a link to a description that offers more to it? That was it. That was the point, can it happen?

[Magatsu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magatsu
I guess the point is lost, I think the description lacks an real definition. but if you don't give a crap then I don't and I will continue to play this fantasy game as I see fit within the CoC and all that.


It's not a matter of anyone not caring (and that particular phrasing was a bit uncalled for, in my opinion, if what you say were the case, ISRP wouldn't be here for you to be making such claims), it's a matter of the point of the setting being lost on you.


I don't care what you thought of my phrasing, when I said I did not 'give a crap' it was for - if no one cared about me narrating a bartender, or that there are more people then just two in there the cool. - that was it.

[Kalreil]

What more does it need? As I requested before, why don't you make one? I have never been to a night club, and the description of it works fine for me, I know what is where and what I can expect to see.Perhaps if you contibute, instead of complain, something may be done.

[Magatsu]

I already offered some suggestions, vague but I was thinking others might like to add something to it. And on the point for Flat panels being used by customers, it was more ment for them to watch. As because in night clubs alot of them do have special effect screens for music they are playing and such, also ones by the bar for other things, sports, and yes, news, even video feeds from dancefloors around night club.

For the point of a DJ I did not say they had access to the sound systems to go choose songs, but when the week end comes clubs sponser artists to play at the club in a booth, that is accepsable enough to request music and such. Atleast all the clubs I have been to.

I offered up suggestions already. I was hoping others might also.

[Kalreil]

Alright, so you are saying that there should be TV's of some sort.That sounds reasonable.Something that has no relation to the people playing probably, couldnt be anything on the news like a gang war, unless it was preapproved.Weather and typical local news wouldn't be bad.As for the DJ, that seems like it would take someone playing it,so that is probably out.I would suggest a jukebox however.So, adding a TV or two behind the bar, and a jukebox, anything else?
Also, your suggestions came off as more or less just complaints, judging from the responses, which is more than likely why no one is taking your side.

[Magi_Gabriel]

The main reasons I decline to comment much on the televisions or juke box is they are not enhancements to the description, they are modifications to the club. If people wanted to know more about the club as stands we can provide more information such as that one of the star attractions for it's rareness in the "zoo" is a scorpion fish or that there is a gila monster there who Gabriel has dubbed Jaime too. All of this is existing "atmosphere" we didn't include in the descriptions because it gives us something to talk about.

Adding television screens, a dozen live bar staff, etc would be modifying the setting and actually changing the setting itself then the description to reflect the updated setting.