ISRP Rules and Rulings Reference (OOC)The place to check for rulings, setting and area updates, seminars, new information, and where to participate in discussions for ISRP rooms changes and improvements.
I don't plan on moving any of my characters over to 4th as of yet... too much information and history in 3.5 to just make a change like that... I could change my mind but I'm not seeing it happening...
I think midlevel characters will be affected the most. Lower-level Player Characters should be relatively easy to translate from D&D3.5 to "Dungeons & Dragons" Fourth Edition, whereas higher-level ones might benefit from the customization abilities promised with D&D4e.
I think the midlevel ones have just enough history, spells, and items that role-players have invested time in for them to be annoyed at converting them. Higher-level P.C.s might require more paperwork, but their personalities, followers, and signature items are usually pretty well-established. At least, that's from my experiences as a Dungeon Master who converted from OD&D to AD&D to AD&D2 to D&D3.x.
i think its a pain in the butt personally..i mean seriously, a fourth edition..just for the money..i believe in making things right the first time..possibly the second...i am seriously looking at a new rpg called anima that is coming out soon...Dungeons and dragons changes far too much to invest my life savings into the game..dont get me wrong,i love it..but its getting ridiculous now...i'm starting to believe the rumor that they purposefully put *bad* things in the game just so they can come out with a new edition each year
I think midlevel characters will be affected the most. Lower-level Player Characters should be relatively easy to translate from D&D3.5 to "Dungeons & Dragons" Fourth Edition, whereas higher-level ones might benefit from the customization abilities promised with D&D4e.
I think the midlevel ones have just enough history, spells, and items that role-players have invested time in for them to be annoyed at converting them. Higher-level P.C.s might require more paperwork, but their personalities, followers, and signature items are usually pretty well-established. At least, that's from my experiences as a Dungeon Master who converted from OD&D to AD&D to AD&D2 to D&D3.x.
I have to agree with this assessment.
Conversion to D&D3.x was the worst for me, because that was when I had several mid-level characters to convert, all in RPGA campaigns so they had to be done immediately. With no one to make any sort of suggestions as to how the new system might affect the characters. Of the four that I had at the time, only one proved even somewhat playable following the conversion. Had we been given enough time to learn the new system, the conversion still would have been a PITA to deal with, but at least many of us wouldn't have screwed ourselves for lack of understanding of the new system. I saw more people leave the various Living campaigns following 3.x conversion, because of conversion, than at any other time.
Stats have never really mattered, so the system just boils down to personal preference. The bigger concern for ISRP will be the havoc that 4E is bringing to two of the four settings that we have here, something which I've been painstakingly (and painfully in some cases, the headaches just never seem to end) keeping up with. Considering the scope of the changes, I'd wager the Magi won't be jumping on board.
4E Realms is staring down a 104 year time jump, Waterdeep itself is undergoing several changes in layout and political structure, and that's not to mention the implications on time-relative to the other rooms. Don't see how that can be followed, since many FR based characters will, well, expire before the time-jump is complete.
Sigil has been touted as a feature of the 4E DMG default setting, meaning that it's going to be heavily altered to suit the new cosmology (ie, ripped from the Spire/Outlands/Great Wheel entirely), not to mention the huge loss of metaplot by changing cosmologies. Don't see how that can be followed either, really, since 4E Sigil won't be Planescape Sigil, and ISRP uses Planescape Sigil.
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In all seriousness, my characters aren't going to change at all. There are a few reasons for this. Firstly, I will have nothing to do with fourth edition at all. I feel like my heavy investment in 3.5 with the specific purpose of future-proofing my DnD has failed because of their greed - and I have a very large amount in investments in books, and the inevitable discontinuation of 3.5e materials is enough for me to say goodbye to Wizards forever... not to mention their general treatment of ISRP, a thing that has always upset me some. So... no 4e for me. It doesn't exist.
Second, even if it did, I would have to argue that ISRP shouldn't follow. ISRP should ignore the changes, because we're meant to be freeform anyway, so... yeah... having said that, I don't know anything at all about the legalities of such a thing. If we do have to change, it'll be a damn painful transition and... well, we'll see what happens.
Thirdly, my characters have never been very heavily diced anyway. I have character sheets and that, but I barely refer to them or think about them when playing. Combat is an amazing rarity for me, so (keeping other lack of changes in mind) I feel that it would just be too much effort for too little to convert them. They're people to me rather than numbers, so changes in numbers mean next to nothing.
And there you have it. 4e will not affect my characters.
yeah... that's kind of the general thoughts running around my head... I choose to not have 4th affect my characters either... The only, only reason why I chose D&D 3.0 was because the opening books were 20 dollars... otherwise I would be a white wolf fan, plain and simple, they did something cool trying to open the game up to new players. I've also invested too much time and money into learning the rules of 3.5 and will feel greatly cheapened with the dumbing down of rules for 4th. ... ... and if you see anything about 4th, one begins to realize just why they decided to pitch isrp... it's the same damn thing... role playing with a computer at your side...
I would encourage ISRP to stay to 3.5 rules and setting personally...
Second, even if it did, I would have to argue that ISRP shouldn't follow. ISRP should ignore the changes, because we're meant to be freeform anyway, so... yeah... having said that, I don't know anything at all about the legalities of such a thing. If we do have to change, it'll be a damn painful transition and... well, we'll see what happens.
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I would encourage ISRP to stay to 3.5 rules and setting personally...
I'm as much against the concept of 4e as anyone, but I must disagree with this frame of mind. If you follow this link: http://www.enworld.org/ - you will arrive at enworlds home page. The site that ISRP is hosted on, and our major source of new players. If you'll take the time to actually visit that link you'll see in big fat letters the words: "D&D 4th Edition News".
The reality is that for ISRP, 4th edition will be a painful transition, irritating, annoying, and a downright pain, and I truly wish as much as anyone here that WotC had not announced their decision to release it. But, if ISRP is to stay behind in edition 3.5, (which, I frankly would prefer as well) I believe it would lead to its eventual demise. We lose players here all the time at ISRP - be it because of work, family, MMORPGs, whatever. We have a very slow rate of new players. Those new players, assumedly, come straight from enworlds message boards.
Imagine, in 6 months time, a new player straight from enworlds message boards, converted straight to 4th edition (or heck, might be playing dnd for the first time, having never seen any of the older editions, as I know I was when I first came to ISRP) - and he enters straight into the forgotten realms room and finds that its 104 years in the past.
Not converting ISRP to 4e will cut off our source of new players. I'm not saying other peoples characters need to convert - I'm sure there are people out there who still use 2e for their characters, and I know I'll have all my characters still at 3.5e - but not updating the settings (or at least some of the settings) will provide no desire for new 4e players. No new players means a general decline in the amount of people on ISRP. To simple 'ignore' 4th edition here would be very unwise.
Last edited by Tyrian_Spellstealer; 2nd February 2008 at 02:42 AM..
The reality is that for ISRP, 4th edition will be a painful transition, irritating, annoying, and a downright pain, and I truly wish as much as anyone here that WotC had not announced their decision to release it.
The reality is that, as of now, we don't have Magi confirmation whether ISRP will transition to 4E setting standards or not (and I know at least two of them are as disgusted by WotC's handling of it as I am :P ). So hyping up how bad it's bound to be is quite a bit premature. We aren't bound to any rules-set, and shouldn't be bound to change settings strictly on the basis of what WotC decides to do.
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But, if ISRP is to stay behind in edition 3.5, (which, I frankly would prefer as well) I believe it would lead to its eventual demise. We lose players here all the time at ISRP - be it because of work, family, MMORPGs, whatever. We have a very slow rate of new players. Those new players, assumedly, come straight from enworlds message boards.
The Tavern is still running strong (the strongest of the three fantasy settings), and Greyhawk/Oerth isn't being touched by 4E. I wouldn't write off 4E as the majority just yet, especially when it comes to setting changes (the Realms community is in a months-long uproar over how 4E has man-handled the setting, comparing New Realms to New Coke, and Sigil, aside from those who abritrarily dislike Planescape, is one of the most beloved settings in D&D's history) or aesthetic changes (the alterations to halflings and dwarves, to be precise, let alone the complete overhaul done to tieflings).
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Imagine, in 6 months time, a new player straight from enworlds message boards, converted straight to 4th edition (or heck, might be playing dnd for the first time, having never seen any of the older editions, as I know I was when I first came to ISRP) - and he enters straight into the forgotten realms room and finds that its 104 years in the past.
Devil's advocate inverse: Imagine the uproar of the players we have now losing non-elven/dwarven characters, and those with dwarves and elves having to age their characters 104 years. It's the exact same chance WotC has taken - alienating return customers/patrons on the gamble of attracting new ones that have no prior investment. It's a gamble that's going to alienate people either way.
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Devil's advocate inverse: Imagine the uproar of the players we have now losing non-elven/dwarven characters, and those with dwarves and elves having to age their characters 104 years. It's the exact same chance WotC has taken - alienating return customers/patrons on the gamble of attracting new ones that have no prior investment. It's a gamble that's going to alienate people either way.
Thats one of my biggest concerns as well. I would like to hope that we could find a happy medium between the two, maybe have some settings stay, and some change - I don't know. I can't speak for the magi, nor do I intend to. Honestly, I haven't been following 4th edition news closely at all. My point is, completely ignoring 4th edition in ISRP would be a mistake, in my honest opinion, and would alienate new players - we can't stay 3.5 forever.
You are right though, changing everything to conform to WotC would upset other players as well who prefer 3.5 (myself included). My hope is that a happy medium can be found. Extremes on both ends will get us nowhere.
I'll grudgingly agree there that there should be a medium that we can come to... maybe a new area could open up that refuses the rules of both 3.5 and 4th? strictly rp and no rules from either side to back them up?
I have characters made by Marvel rules (the old ones -from the TSR days), characters made by White Wolf rules, characters made by D&D rules of different versions. And I play all of them here. Some of them don't even have stats per se, because this *is* freeform. I follow rules that I know to give myself a general guideline. But, let's face it, some people who play here haven't even played *any* table top RPGs.
I haven't read any of the books in the Forgotten Realms setting, or in the Oerth setting. I did play through one module twice, which one DM converted to the other world, so, I don't remember which setting it's actually supposed to be in. . .Forgotten Realms, I think.
Anyway - point is - I don't think the change to 4e has to affect us at all. Yes, the Magi have some decisions to make because of setting changes - do they want to jump ahead? Maybe there'll be a poll. My vote is for continuity, if so.
I'm making the change to 4th edition eventually, but as we've all pretty much have said is that ISRP really has no inherent system. We have freeformers, 3.0's, 3.5's, some WoWers, WoDs, and just plain insane characters. So the release of this is gonna do nothing to our community for the most part.
And for all you people not switching over to 4.0, shame on you! WotC is a company in the wonderful capitalist country of the United States. Give them money! It's how our economy works! :P
And remember, if nature tells us anything...those who do not change and adapt are sure to die out. Just a thought.
(And yes, I know these are not the complete explanations of capitalist theory and natural selection, so hush! )
Really the change will not be altering to my lone character unless you count the world around him. Simple basis of him not being based out of the d20 system, more specifically 3rd of 3.5 edition.
On the topic of the Realms, I'm not well versed. If the basic pantheon is still intact (That is ignoring many of the lesser well known deities) Then you should have no problem with magic. Also there is the big huge hole with the word 'Plot' written over it in the form of a few spells such as 'Time Stop' 'Permanency' and 'Mage’s Disjunction'. Of course these are all rather expensive spells but as before, I direct you to the large hole on your right.
Alternately I don't see why you cannot play in a past version of a setting. After all, wasn't their a source book for a specific period? Year of Rogue Dragons or something like that. I maybe wrong on it, but its a case of the the old AD&D supplements vs. 3rd edition stuff in my eyes. I mean, did they ever tell you about the Anourch Desert expanding in the any of the d20 supplements?
On the topic of the Realms, I'm not well versed. If the basic pantheon is still intact (That is ignoring many of the lesser well known deities) Then you should have no problem with magic.
I've been keeping up on this specifically, which is strange, because I never liked the Realms, still don't, and I'm still peeved by the changes.
Realms pantheon is mostly intact. Mostly. Greater gods will now be pantheon heads, with most intermediate/lesser/demigods being reduced to servitor deities and hero-gods under them. Racial pantheons are looking to be either utterly annihilated (drow are down to just Lolth, dwarves are down to two or three as I recall) or subsumed as aspects of human-pantheon deities (elves, especially; Sehanine Moonbow is now an aspect of Selune, for example). Mystra is dead and gone (and staying gone), as of end-of-phase-3.5e, Cyric is imprisoned for 1000 years for killing Mystra (but it's been stated that he was imprisoned so that the authors could continue his storyline, so that likely won't stick; Shar assisted, but wasn't punished in any way).
Cyric killing Mystra causes the Spellplague, wreaks havoc on the entire plane, drives several mages insane (curiously, this avoids most Mythal-enclosed areas, which should probably have shorted out when Mystra, and therefore the Weave, went ka-blammo). Major geographical changes in several key areas. Shade/Netheril has taken over Sembia, effectively surrounding Cormyr, and for some reason, is growing plants in the desert.
Realms has effectively become a new setting with the same names and themes, really. Just enough changes to completely throw off many veterans that loved it, and not enough to win over those that loathed it.
Meanwhile, Eberron isn't even getting the original planned 2-year time jump, because Eberron players complained loud enough. Go figure.
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over multiple years, multiple successful, and failed storylines, and multiple successful, and failed characters, I can count the number of times I've actually rolled dice in ISRP on just my two hands.
In my mind, the only thing ISRP uses from the ruleset, is the history, the settings, and the system of magic, be it divine or arcane.
Who cares what the armor class of that level 13 were-eagle half dragon is?
Do you care what the roll is for a thrown hard packed snowball to deal subdual damage?
Maybe you'd like to roll some dice to see if your bluff check works on the PC female at the bar?
what Zeren said, Freeformers, 3.0ers and 3.5ers, not to mention a healthy helping of blizzard fans, and anime fans showing us their psi blades and headbands.
the only thing that could touch ISRP, might be the setting change, and even then, it will be widly ignored, kind of how the move of the tavern from the planar nexus, to greyhawk was, for a good long while, by a number of people *coughs*
As much as I hate to admit, I have not followed along with the news of 4th edition, even so, although nothing, if very little, will change for my characters, one or more of which are longer lived than even the elves.
I will be picking up 4th edition core books just to see some of the differences that were made and I would like to see the new inventions be they spells or tech that have developed in FR within that 104 year gap.
If 4ed could be more like the early 3.5 and some of the better books from this middle era, I would welcome the change instead of turning my back upon the new system with no knowledge or experience of how it would run in comparison with 3.0 or 3.5.
I'm also a little curious of how psionics will be effected by this newest edition, though I only hope that it can fix the problematic Complete Psi like the Expanded Psionics Handbook fixed the rather silly and very problematic 3.0 Psionics.
That being said, I will continue on with the question at the title of the thread with my character of Shasf, The creature that It is now, will probably become even odder, wierder, and even stranger with the onset of 4ed. I am not sure if people could or could not cope with such a developement of this one character, perhaps It will add more to the list of people who refuse to RP with It just because it is already too wierd... If the new edition can do this, than I have met with my new years resolution and will need to make another.
I don't D&D, I'll be the first to admitt to it. I've been freeform since I started and proud of it. I do find myself occasionally looking at a spell list to put names to spells for people who do use D&D, but honestly thats the extent of it. So 4e doesn't affect me in that sense.
Setting changes on the other hand.....wow 100 years is a HUGE jump. Yes most of use would lose any human characters, heck most those characters children would be fairly old too. Thats a down side. Another downside I see just from reading the threads I have, Oreth. How would the Magi put Toril and Sigil into the future that big but explain Oreth's still in the past? And more importantly, why would the average character be time traveling like that to begin with! Sure doesn't seem like a huge deal but a lot of us have characters that setting jump a lot...... could get real confusing.
ISRP is a Free Form Setting. No Dice Required, No Sheet Needed.
You don't need to know a thing about rules, regulations, editions.
Yes, ENWorld is looking at and probably will undoubtedly promote the 4th Edition of the Gaming System, ENWorld is a site for a much larger gaming community than just us awesome ISRPers.
As far as ISRP Settings go..
From all appearances and intentions, the only setting I really see being affected would be the Faerunian based rooms, that is the Rotunda and Pegasus. And that, I imagine, is entirely up to the Magi who graciously host said rooms and help keep ISRP going.
I haven't been keeping up on all the breaking 4e news, because quite frankly I find the idea laudible at best. However, from all that I have read through it seems at this time the only setting getting a major overhaul would be the Forgotten Realms.
So, I come back to the question and original statement of this thread.. How will 4e change your character?
It won't.
Not even a little, not even at all.
Free Form setting means I can play my PC's as I see fit to do so, as long as they remain within the CoC and Setting Rules given. The idea of a 4e setting is absolutely abhorent to me, and I personally refuse to acknowledge it. Yech!
Another downside I see just from reading the threads I have, Oreth. How would the Magi put Toril and Sigil into the future that big but explain Oreth's still in the past?
No time jump for Sigil as far as what has been announced (although that is indicative of WotC's design flaw in a 104 year time jump being imposed on one setting that has had crossovers in the past; it won't matter much though, 4E Realms will have a different cosmology yet again thanks to Mystra being killed, several divine realms will collapse taking their owners with them). Sigil faces a far, far greater change by being officially updated for the 4E "Points of Light" non-setting-setting: the removal of the Great Wheel.
Removal of the Wheel removes the outer planes as most people know them. Baator is still around, but it's now an allegedly inescapable prison plane where the devils (who are now all considered to be fallen angels who betrayed and killed their deity, might I add) require mortal assistance to leave. Mount Celestia is now floating in the Astral, with no big announcements on any changes (and why would they? 4E planes are all about the epic level dungeon theory, as evidenced by pit fiends now being quantified and mere Elite monsters, meaning that it only creates half of an encounter for an on-level party ). The Abyss has been turned into a blight on the Elemental Chaos, a fused mix of the elemental planes and Limbo (and demons have become corrupted elementals bent only on destruction). And that's just what I've seen revealed.
And further on the monster end of things, with the fiends at least: Devils are now strictly humanoid with a handful of fiendish traits, and demons are now supposedly strictly bestial. Among other things, this means that succubi are now devils. Worse than that, from a Planescape point of view, Yugoloths are now demons, and the 'loth suffix has been removed from core.
4E Sigil may be still called Sigil, but it's not going to be the Sigil that people know. Much like the Realms, it's going to be an entirely new setting with the same names and vaguely the same concepts, but different enough to throw off the people that love it.
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