I'm just gonna throw this one out there. (Pun intended.)
Caltrops (Mundane Item) Weight: 2 lbs. Cost: 5 gp Effect [Standard Action, Range 5, Single Use]: Scattering a bag of caltrops causes one square within range to become difficult terrain until the end of the encounter. Any creature entering that square suffers a +3 attack v. Reflex. If the attack hits, the creature is slowed (save ends).
Note
Made it so that caltrops do not inflict damage because it keeps minions from dying everytime they step on one.
As I posted in the other thread, I'd bump the price up a gp or 2 to put it in line with the alchemy items.
Other than that... the only thing that strikes me as odd is the range. It seems a bit off to throw a bag of caltrops 25' and have them scatter right. It's D&D though, so we don't have to worry too much about realism. Mechanically, it seems fine.
As I posted in the other thread, I'd bump the price up a gp or 2 to put it in line with the alchemy items.
Other than that... the only thing that strikes me as odd is the range. It seems a bit off to throw a bag of caltrops 25' and have them scatter right. It's D&D though, so we don't have to worry too much about realism. Mechanically, it seems fine.
If you really wanted you could play 4-Square with them and roll a D4 once or twice to determine Northeast/Northwest/Southeast/Southwest square. More randomness and realism, but more complex to work out. It's similar to some chaos sorcerer's mechanics, in a way. This has a risk of covering more area, but not necessarily falling where the thrower wants it.
More specific--
Caltrops (Mundane Item) Weight: 2 lbs. Cost: 6 gp Effect [Standard Action, Burst 2 within 5 (one square must be within 5), Single Use]: Scattering a bag of caltrops causes 2 random squares within the 4-square zone to become difficult terrain until the end of the encounter. Roll a d4 (1=Northeast/2=Northwest/3=Southwest/4=Southeast) to determine squares. Any creature entering that square suffers a +3 attack v. Reflex. If the attack hits, the creature is slowed (save ends).
Special:If you roll the same d4 twice one zone becomes difficult terrain that makes the target fall prone.
LOL My point was throwing a bag of them 25' and expecting everything to stay in a 5' square or having them evenly spread out. It just seemed a bit much to me for a mundane item .
I think if I wanted realism AND a useful item, I'd rather have to use it in an adjacent square and know where it went than 2 random squares in a burst 2. That way with a few bags of these, a little time to prepare and the right location you could pretty much stop people in their tracks. It's hard for tactical placement with random locations.
I makes it a little more realistic, but more complicated. 4E errs on the side of abstraction, so it's best to keep it simple.
I'd never put it in a game I DM'd, but a PbP can afford to be a tad more complex sometimes, given the fact you have about 24 hours to play out the mechanic.
On the other hand, if people make a mistake, it takes a long time to go back and correct things, and rules misunderstandings blow up to become a much bigger deal. I'd say it's actually MORE important to be simple.
I don't know about the range 5. I think I'd make them a close blast 1 (so you can scatter caltrops at a pursuer without provoking an OA, but only in an adjacent square).
I don't know about the range 5. I think I'd make them a close blast 1 (so you can scatter caltrops at a pursuer without provoking an OA, but only in an adjacent square).
I like that, but would the caltrops be that effective if they're being scattered when the enemy is right there? Looking at when the players would probably be using them, I'd expect it to be when the enemy is still trying to close with them, not adjacent.
Using them when the enemy is right there, I wouldn't be surprised to have to eat an OA to go through with it. Range 5 might be a bit much, but I could see a Range 2 or Range 3, 10 to 15 feet, with a minimum of scatter-effect. I can underhand that with reliable accuracy (by comparison, horseshoes at a picnic or in a league is 30 to 40 feet to throw, and you're aiming at a one-foot area for points) and touch to keep the scatter to within 5 feet. Passed that, I'm not sure I could control both accuracy and scatter.
It really depends on when you expect clatrops to be used by the players. Will it be before the enemy's there? If so, the toss and go seems valid and calls for a range, with the threat of an OA. But if it's when the enemy's already there, JoeNotCharles's close blast 1 would probably be the way to go.
I don't know about the range 5. I think I'd make them a close blast 1 (so you can scatter caltrops at a pursuer without provoking an OA, but only in an adjacent square).
As in, close blast 1, choose one square in the blast to spread the caltrops in? That sound pretty good to me. Could maybe make it close blast 2 (or 3?) for a little bit of range. I think much more range than that does start to stretch credibility.
The caltrop would lose all of it's effectiveness if place IN a square with an enemy. No minus to move OUT of difficult terrain and no attack since the creature didn't enter the square.
How about this. Standard action to shift 1 square and place the caltrops in the square you exit. Sound good? If the person wants to use them before the enemy is on them, then they just move back after placement.
How about this?
Caltrops (Mundane Item)(Consumable) Weight: 2 lbs. Cost: 7 gp Effect: As a Standard Action that does not provoke attacks of oportunity, you can create a one square zone within three squares of you in an unoccupied square. The square that the zone covers is difficult terrain until the end of the encounter. Any creature entering the square suffers a +3 attack vs Reflex. If the attack hits, the creature is slowed (save ends).
Special: If the caltrops do not make a successful attack during the encounter that they are used, they can be recovered by taking a full-round action to do nothing but pick up caltrops and place them in a container. At the end of the encounter that the caltrops are used and make a successful attack, they are consumed.
I know that it's not terribly realistic for an entire bag of caltrops to be wasted after only making one attack, but I'm trying to keep it abstract, yet still have a way to be recovered. What do you guys think?
I know that it's not terribly realistic for an entire bag of caltrops to be wasted after only making one attack, but I'm trying to keep it abstract, yet still have a way to be recovered. What do you guys think?
Say that the first time a giant, dragon, purple worm or Orcus steps on them! What might seem to be unrealistic for a single man sized creature but it is more than realistic for the bigger ones.
I'm fine with these in principle, but there appear to be three proposed versions on the table. KenHood's version seems the most 4e to me; the others do read a bit 3.5.
I don't really care whether it has longer range, but is a ranged attack and thus provokes, or whether it is a close attack and doesn't provoke but has shorter range.
I think I'd feel better about these if they weren't reusable. Loses verisimilitude, but I can't off the top of my head think of any other "reliable" consumables.
Though it makes sense for caltrops to be reusable, I fear the current non-consumable take would make them immensely overused (if not "must-have" gear) by only pricing them at 5 gp per batch.
In effect, any time an adventure party can prepare themselves for an encounter that is just around the corner, they can potentially gain very significant tactical advantages by dictating which areas of the encounter environment shall be difficult terrain.
Defending a position that will soon be attacked? Stopping a foe that will soon flee this way? Or simply about to open any sort of door/gate/portal in a dungeon/lair/villain's bathroom?
Use caltrops to create bottlenecks and position defenders there.
Create caltrop-fields to position ranged allies behind.
Place caltrops at the bottom of towers to deter foes.
Heck, you effectively allow the characters to custom-paint the encounter environment to optimize their strategy of choice - which can be fun once in a while, but possibly frustrating for the DM in excess.
I might just be overtly worried, but thought I would bring it up, regardless.
I think that making them re-usable doesn't fit the 4E model. It may be more 'realistic' -- but imagine throwing a bag of jacks on the floor. Are you really going to be able to pick them all up in 6 seconds? And in a dark, damp, nasty dungeon, are you going to be able to find them?
Yeah, I don't think re-usable works. As far a range? Doesn't matter which version. My comments on range were to point out that the range didn't seem 'realistic' but did fit the 4e item mold. I for one do not really care if it's unrealistic but i knew it might bother some so I pointed it out.
Now that I have a bunch more information from all of you, I propose the following:
Caltrops
This simple bag contains dozens of tiny sharpened, pyramid shaped points. Cast about on the floor, it acts as a travel deterrent.
Level: 1 Price: 8 gp Mundane Item
Power (Consumable): Standard Action. Close Burst 3: Target one unoccupied square within the burst. Treat the target square as difficult terrain until the end of the encounter. When any creature enters the target square make a +3 vs Reflex attack against the creature who enters the target square. On a hit, the target is slowed (save ends).
The only thing about a close burst is I'd kind of like it if dropping these provoked an opportunity attack (yeah, I know I was the one who first suggested a burst, but I changed my mind).
But I'm really bad at judging power levels of things like this, so I'm going to abstain anyway.
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