I think it's a little too golden if it's encounter long. Think about it this way: Your average party has two strikers if it's 5 or more players. If every striker out there went and got a hold of Hero of the Faith, and it lasted the entire encounter, the non-Avenger striker would way outshine the Avenger against that same enemy. I don't think that is very fair. One round of awesomeness is cool, two rounds even if the avenger takes the 2nd level utility power that grants a reroll, but an entire encounter of enhanced accuracy AND better damage (cause let's face it, the avenger's damage is NOT going to equal that of any other melee striker) is just plain unfair for us primary Avengers. In my opinion, HotF would be a guaranteed must have feat for any non-avenger striker and Avengers don't get much in reciprocation when it comes to MC feats. If I had a vote, there would be a very red, bold negatory on letting that slide, even with the additional two wisdom that it takes to get it in comparison to DoDW. Just my opinion; take it how you will.
Don't build it bigger than it is, it's only on one enemy. Once that enemy drops it stops for the rest of the encounter. The avenger gets to choose a new target.
Even elites are a good example. Actually, even a particularly nasty, normal moster, possibly a leader or controller, if eliminated early, changes the difficulty of the encounter entirely. And OoE on a melee striker is NASTY.
Come join us in the Shifting Seas and Transitive Isles of Living 4th Edition, amazing adventures and great fun guaranteed!
Then to play community 4e in Eberron join us in LEB too! Give life to your characters and contribute to the living settings!
Please excuse my poor English. It is not my first language.
With OoE, the most common striker to get it would be the Ranger (I think they would be the most likely to have the requisite Wis). He would tear through a foe even faster than he currently does. It makes arguably the most damaging class even more deadly. That being said, the other classes would have to give up a bit more to get the 15 Wis, as it's not a tertiary stat for any other strikers is it? I know the monk will be, but that's quite a bit out. Actually the warden would be a no-brainer to take it.
That being said it's not as broken as a bunch of other feats. I foresee WoTC taking a look at this in the near future. Man, if I was going to GenCon this feat would be on my must have.
This one stands out, and it's almost certainly an error. Is there any other multiclass feat that allows you to get a class feature that could be in effect for a whole encounter, every encounter? Not to my knowledge... except they originally had that for the ranger feat which granted Hunter's Quarry. And they nerfed that. WotC will nerf this one too, it's almost certain.
I guess since Divine Power can't go in for a few months yet, WotC may well get to it first. But if they don't by that time, we should do it. Lasts until the end of your next turn just like every other multiclass feat.
Is there any other multiclass feat that allows you to get a class feature that could be in effect for a whole encounter, every encounter?
Yep. The 'Bravo' multi-class feat allows your character to get a +2 attack and damage against a single opponent for the entire encounter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryryguy
WotC will nerf this one too, it's almost certain.
That's why I say, "No Nerfs!" If it is an issue, post a message or send an e-mail to WOTC. It gives them the opportunity to address the problem with their product.
Anyway, WOTC has been consistent and prompt in fixing errors in their content. I think we should trust them to solve the problem, rather than creating our own solution based on a perception of a potential problem instead of experience with an actual problem. In other words, when I see posts discussing Nerfs, the general tenor of the argument is 'if someone wanted to abuse 'x', then someone could do thus-and-such'. However, if you look at our community, how many people here want to abuse the game and dampen other people's enjoyment? I think we can trust our players to behave in a conscientious manner, our DM's to act in a judicious manner, our judges to provide appropriate oversight, and WOTC to fix a problem in a timely manner. It's not that big a deal, because our community won't let it become that big a deal, so we don't need to address it by creating more rules or exceptions to cover it.
That's why I say, "No Nerfs!" If it is an issue, post a message or send an e-mail to WOTC. It gives them the opportunity to address the problem with their product.
Anyway, WOTC has been consistent and prompt in fixing errors in their content. I think we should trust them to solve the problem, rather than creating our own solution based on a perception of a potential problem instead of experience with an actual problem. In other words, when I see posts discussing Nerfs, the general tenor of the argument is 'if someone wanted to abuse 'x', then someone could do thus-and-such'. However, if you look at our community, how many people here want to abuse the game and dampen other people's enjoyment? I think we can trust our players to behave in a conscientious manner, our DM's to act in a judicious manner, our judges to provide appropriate oversight, and WOTC to fix a problem in a timely manner. It's not that big a deal, because our community won't let it become that big a deal, so we don't need to address it by creating more rules or exceptions to cover it.
I find your views intriguing, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
__________________ Gary Hoggatt - www.garyh.net "Such heroic nonsense..."
Ken, I agree with your POV in general. Also, in this case I do think WotC will fix it. But if they don't, I think might as well do it rather than wait for them. It's extremely clear and easy to fix in this case, doesn't require a lot of complicated extra rules, it's literally just "it lasts until the end of your next turn". The end.
And it's not really that I'm worried that players will "abuse" it, more that they would choose it and then be unhappy when WotC does nerf it, as they inevitably will...
I forget, do you get a free retraining for something that is subject to errata? I'd just hate to see someone have to waste their regular retraining on something like this.
I have two comments. The first is in response to Apoli's domains. I think skill better represents his love of the arts, not arcana. Skill comprises many things: mastery of one's mind, mastery of a certain skill(painting, singing etc), physical perfection(by exercise). I just think it fits better than arcana.
Second is the avenger MC feat discussion. I think is it more powerful than the PHBII MC feat. It does have higher prereqs though, which is quite a sacrifice for those that aren't rangers(or even fighters). As it stands now, Rurdev(my two weapon ranger)wouldn't take the feat, even if it's "better". I see more options presented from the fighter MC feat from MP, including pit fighter.
Sure it gives you a sweet power every encounter, and helps the party as a whole by eliminating a significant threat more easily. It also gives your choice of a skill(let's face it, if you are a ranger and take this feat, you probably have perception anyway). But....let's not forget the fact that you can't take another MC feat(thus limiting your PP options). If you are a ranger, you won't take an avenger PP, and you won't take power swap feats, because they are not as good as options as the ones you already have. I don't think the character would outshine an avenger in the party, because you can't recharge it(I think you can oath another target if you kill your oath in the first round).
I have two comments. The first is in response to Apoli's domains. I think skill better represents his love of the arts, not arcana. Skill comprises many things: mastery of one's mind, mastery of a certain skill(painting, singing etc), physical perfection(by exercise). I just think it fits better than arcana.
*Smirks* You're just saying that because you want the awesome Skill domain benefits.
Seriously though, I went with Arcana because Skill is so broad. Lots of deities can make a weak claim to Skill, but only in their chosen field (arts, metal working, hunting, etc.). Athena is only one who's really capable of taking Skill as the whole collection of knowledge and practices. Of course, that's just my opinion. All of that is. Those were never intended to be the "official" domains for each deity, just suggestions.
Well... the case of Apollo, actually, I feel is very close. Artists, poets, musicians, oracles, archers, shepherds, healers, avengers... all can revere a god that is inspired to him. So... skill isn't a bad match, IMO.
Come join us in the Shifting Seas and Transitive Isles of Living 4th Edition, amazing adventures and great fun guaranteed!
Then to play community 4e in Eberron join us in LEB too! Give life to your characters and contribute to the living settings!
Please excuse my poor English. It is not my first language.
You can always take the MC feat until you reach level 9-10 and then re-train it out to fighter MC feat, qualify for pit fighter, and then start to retrain out some powers as well.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
