Furthermore, since it seems not to have gotten through to a few people: you don't depend on your Cleric doing 1d6+wis or 1d8+str to win battles. You depend on your striker doing 1d10+str+SA/HQ/Curse damage two or more times a round. The function of a leader in an optimized party is to set up the battlefield and make enemies easier to hit. The pacifist cleric does that, while maintaining extremely high levels of surgeless healing.
I have to disagree with you. NO amount of damage is meaningless. Just today I saw a big bad guy go down from a 4 damage attack. And why aren't you optimizing your melee cleric? That d8 str should be 2d6 strength if you optimize.
The pacifist healer get better healing because he doesn't chip in on the damage part of the fight. He SHOULD be a better healer since he isn't helping kill the creature. [you can -2 defense someone all day and it's not going to die] I still see nothing wrong with that.
I agree with elecgraystone, at epic level (as we are using those numbers), a cleric could easily do with recovery strike 2d8+ 5 (wepaon enhancement) + 7 (Str). We are talking an average 21 damage, which should be 10% of the hp of a standard creature of lvl 21. Now add any bonus of damage and any bonus of healing he got from feats (weapon Focus, Healer's Implement, etc...), other active power (Beacon of Hope, etc...), items (Iron Armband, Healer's Brooch, ect...), his damage + healing will surely be higher than the healing of an Astral Seal.
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Potent Restorable comes from Eberron Campaign setting. But it makes sense to apply it to only Artificer powers. After all, there is a few feat/Power/abilities that boost only divine healing powers.
Ok, if you think it should be changed, please make a separate proposal thread for it (and anything else in the Eberron book) so we can debate it.
I'll also add Recovery Strike to the list of things that need to be voted on from DP.
Here's one that I think is too powerful: Taunting Visage (doppelganger or changeling Avenger power, if you use Change Shape to assume the shape of your Oath of Enmity target, you gain combat advantage against it until the end of your next turn).
Haven't read Eberron so I dunno what the difference between doppelgangers and changelings is, but in the MM Change Shape is an at-will. So there's nothing to stop you from gaining CA over and over again every round - great for multiclass Avenger/Rogue. I think this power should have "once per encounter" added.
EDIT: Eager For Blood is pretty awesome for an Avenger/Rogue too. Not saying it's TOO good, just saying.
Last edited by JoeNotCharles; 30th August 2009 at 09:34 AM..
Ok, I think it's time we voted on these. To summarize, the only questionable items that I know of (although feel free to bring up others) are:
Hero of Faith: there was a wide debate about whether this is too powerful
Astral Seal, Recovery Strike: Velmont proposed these are too powerful
Taunting Visage: I proposed this as too powerful, and suggested adding "once per encounter"
My votes:
NO to Hero of Faith YES to Astral Seal YES to Recovery Strike NO to Taunting Visage as written YES to Taunting Visage with "once per encounter" added
I thought about Taunting Visage some more, and it's a little bit more complicated:
If you're not using Sneak Attack, it gets you a +2 to hit, over and over again, at the cost of 2 minor actions (one to change shape to something else, and another to change shape back to your OoE target) - so once every two turns, or every turn if you don't move. Doing this over and over again is a bit cheesy, but I dunno if it's powerful enough to be worth restricting... (There are also magic weapons which have an extra bonus with CA to think about.)
If you're an Avenger multiclassed into Rogue, you only get Sneak Attack once per encounter anyway, so it's just like the above situation.
If you're a Rogue multiclassed into Avenger with Disciple of Divine Wrath, you only have an Oath of Enmity target for one turn, unless you luck out an one-shot it. But you have to spend your minor action to change shape on the same turn as you spend the minor action to set the OoE. So you can get one guaranteed Sneak Attack against every new OoE target, IF you don't have to move or you spend an action point. That seems fine (in fact, it seems very appropriate, so that's the main reason I wouldn't want to restrict this to once per encounter).
If you're a Rogue multiclassed into Avenger with Hero of the Faith, you can use this to get Sneak Attack once every second turn, or every turn if you don't move or spend an AP, which I think is too powerful - but I'm voting to ban Hero of the Faith anyway, so I don't need to worry about this.
So I think I'm gonna change my vote to YES on Taunting Visage as written - still thinking about it, though.
After considering JNC's points, I'm good with allowing Taunting Visage as written. If you can burn your move and minor every round to pull off TV for +2 to hit all the time, more power to you! My vote above is changed.
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My vote above is changed.
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