Kamotz will be leveling in the "near" future, that is, if he survives.
When he does he'll be using the second level feat to pick up a better weapon.
I'm proposing the Great Scythe.
Cost: 30gp
Damage: 1d12
Proficient: +3
Range: -
Weight: 12 lbs
This HUGE Scythe is preferred by Clerics and Paladins of Lauto.
Property: Defensive (A defensive weapon grants you a +1 bonus to AC.)
Group: Heavy Blade
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My reasoning behind this weapon mechanically?
It costs the same as other "superior" weapons.
The damage is the same as a Full Blade/Great Axe
The proficiency bonus is modeled after the other Heavy Blade in this category. (I'd be willing to change the prof to a +2 if the damage was changed to 2d6 or given the brutal 1 quality. This is because the original scythe is a +2 and uses 2d4)
Range is obvious...
Weight is the same as an Urgrosh
There is no weapon more appropriate to give the defensive quality. It doesn't get off-hand like double weapons though. The whole reason behind not going High Crit, Brutal 1, is because the executioners axe is already toting that... My goal was to make more selection in weapons.
Group is obvious...
I think it is balanced very well with the other weapons of it's caliber. And different enough to justify it being used.
Granted if this doesn't pass, expect another proposal: let Kamotz use an Urgrosh and call it a Great Scythe...
Well I think I like it. And being in favor of the flavor I can even see how the big sweeping arcs of a Great Scythe could "ward enemies" off.
My only concern though is do other people buy the defensive property? I agree it's balanced but do we all think it makes sense? Or am I just biased cus I like Kamotz?
Well, i see Enworld isn't back up 100% yet. It already ate my LAST post here...
I personally don't see the scythe as a defensive weapon. If anything, something that big would leave you open since you can't redirect your swings quickly.
I'd go with these stats for a great scythe. +3, d10, Polearm, heavy blade, Reach. A re-skinned great spear, changing spear for heavy blade. Making a big weapon like a scythe BIGGER makes reach a much better fit than defensive.
Well, if he goes with Great Axe or a pole arm he's losing something. If he's going for a scythe, a great axe or the lone superior polearm [the great spear] aren't heavy blades like the base weapon was. It's be odd to take axe or spear feats with your 'great scythe' when the guy with a normal scythe is using a different set of feats.
Now he could take the glaive, but when you spend a feat for a weapon proficiency you really want to pick up a superior weapon. When you could pick up the great spear or the glaive which one would you pick? Mechanically, the great spear wins out hands down. It just doesn't match the base weapon.
However, CaBaNa seems to want a defensive 2 handed weapon. that I just don't see. Defensive weapons are by definition 1 handed. "A defensive weapon grants you a +1 bonus to AC while you wield the defensive weapon in one hand and wield another melee weapon in your other hand." So how do you wield a defensive 2 handed weapon in one hand and wield another melee weapon in your other hand?
Seems to me that you've got two options for your giant scythe:
1. Give it higher damage than a regular scythe, but no reach (it's a big blade, but not necessarily that much longer of a shaft)
2. Make it a reach weapon and a polearm (it's a bigger blade on a longer shaft)
I don't see a Scythe as being a defensive weapon at all. The regular Scythe wasn't, why should the bigger version be? So NO to the original proposal.
If you want to go with more damage but no reach, you could take a Fullblade (already a Heavy Blade) and just call it a Great Scythe. No proposal needed. Or you could propose that a Great Scythe is an Execution Axe (which seems closest to how a giant scythe would work) but it's a Heavy Blade instead of an Axe. I think I'd be ok with that, although I'd want to take a closer look at the feats and powers that work with Heavy Blades vs Axes. If you want it to be a reach weapon, I agree that the best course is to make it like a Greatspear but with Heavy Blade instead of Spear. This would take a proposal too. In general I prefer taking existing weapons and changing the type instead of trying to come up with a new weapon and keep it balanced.
Yeah, I gotta say I don't see a 2h defensive weapon, either. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall that all the 2h weapons that were defensive were really double weapons, where one end was defensive.
You are correct covaithe, the only two handed defensive weapon possible are double weapons since the requirement for defensive is you have a weapon in both hands which the double weapon feature does. However a double weapon isn't a true 2 handed weapon; for example, a fighter with the weapon talent in 2 handed weapons doesn't get the bonus with a double weapon.
Lauto/Hadeys is the god of the DEAD (and the underworld and is he one judges who goes to Thartari or to Elysia), not the god of death. The lesser god of Death serves under L/H. I see someone has mixed up the two concepts on this page of the wiki(I took the liberty of fixing it) but nowhere on this page does it say that lauto/Hadeys is the god of death and he shouldn't be
second: The scythe isn't associated with Lauto/Hadeys, but with the goddess of harvest IE Proserphones/Peresefa. My choice for Lauto/Hadeys weapon would be something with two edges IE a sword, maybe a greatsword or a fullblade as just because he is the one that judges the souls
Uhmm... honestly, I think either a Fullblade or an Executioner's Axe are a perfect fit, once reflavored, for this kind of weapon. Also, better mechanically. All defensive weapons are defeinitely not so bent on offense.
It is also way simpler than adding a new weapon... so I vote NO!
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Well, I think Cabana basically just wanted a pseudo-Grim Reaper character with Kamotz, using cleric as a base, so he picked the most appropriate god for such a character - Lauto. Peresefa doesn't really strike me as the kind of goddess who would send her followers out to reap souls, y'know? The "follower of the god of death with a scythe" image is a rather popular one, for obvious reasons. In any case, I don't think there's any reason for us to pick on Cabana's character concept
Back to the topic at hand, I can't really argue with the rules on defensive weapons ... and I have to say it doesn't really make sense to me for a scythe to be defensive. High crit makes much more sense to me, followed by brutal or reach.
If you want to build on the original scythe make sure to remember that the original is a simple weapon, so it would need at least two "upgrades" to put it in superior weapon territory.
All that about no defensive 2H weapons makes sense... however... it seems like CaBaNa mainly wants a defensive weapon.
He mentioned before that he'd be happy to use an urgrosh, if they weren't banned. The urgrosh is superior, +2 proficiency, 1d12 on the main side, plus defensive on the off-hand side. Compared to his original proposal, that's +1 lower proficiency, and axe instead of heavy blade (but everyone seems to agree that's no problem to handwave along with reskinning it as a scythe).
Now, it's technically not two handed, which would make a difference for some characters (like barbarians), but for Kamotz I doubt it makes a difference. It's effectively two-handed in that you can't wield it and also a shield or something else in the off hand.
And... I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, just that it seems like what he's asking for is not really all that outrageous. If the urgrosh weren't banned, and he could reskin it, he'd basically be there. I guess to go with Waraxe/Parrying Dagger, he'd need two feats. At that point he might as well go Waraxe/Shield. Was the point of banning the urgrosh and other double weapons that you got too much for one feat?
As written, the Urgrosh is defensive on BOTH sides, even though only one end of it is a "defensive" weapon. It was just easier to ban them than figure out all the ramifications of things like that and decide what the best fix is.
We can revisit that decision if anyone makes a proposal. (It's been 3 months since AV was approved, right?)
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