When I created Atreus, I wanted to create a smooth poetic type rogue but ultimately ended up not playing him as I intended. I discovered that Atreus was a lot more dark and sinister in nature during his time with the Punishment Patrol, and still is.
Somehow I didn't feel that rogue fitted him well; Atreus was something else, something darker.
So, what to do? I saw the possibility to make him a hybrid of some sort later on, but none of the classes really fit with what I wanted to do with him. Then out of the blue sky comes the Assassin class in dragon 379 and the race Revenant in dragon 376.
Proposal: Change Atreus' class and race with his overhaul. Change his class from Rogue to Assassin, Change his race from Human to Revenant(Human)
Comments:
My idea is that Atreus get's caught up with his past. Corrupted agents from the Kingdom of Jade get a tip that Atreus is hiding in Daunton and are sent to recover the scroll he caries ( See Atreus' background for more information)
Dispite the best of his skills, he is caught by the agents and refuses to give them the scroll, which is hidden. Seeing no other option, Atreus zealously takes his own life in order to protect the whereabouts of the scroll.
To his surprise he wakes up in a court of dark beings whom he finds strangely familiar. He quickly realizes that he his dead and that this must be the afterlife. Judged by the court, he is deemed suitable by these long forgotten ancestors of his, and is given two choices: Let his spirit join the rest of his people or be sent back to the mortal realm to serve their purpose against the Oni, when the time comes. He returns finding himself changed in many ways and that the ancestors have granted him powers beyond his understanding.
Rationale:
Instead of creating a whole new character, I want to keep Atreus and still continue his story but with some differences.
I know I am asking much, change of class and race, but the two classes aren't that alien to one another and much of the same elements are in play, like he still is a sneak, just a better one.
The race issue, well he still has a human background so the race change is not completely irrational.
Other details: Ability scores change to 10 str, 16 con, 18 dex, 10 int, 10 wis, 16 cha
Feat: Multi: Sneak of Shadows, Toughness feat
Powers: Leaping Shade, Executioner's Noose, Nightmare Shades, Targeted for Death, Cloak of Shades.
Equipment: No changes to his current equipment.
Summary: So this is what I propose:
Change Race: Human to Revenant(human)
Change Class: Rogue to Assassin
Reason: Wants to keep his current character but wants to change him into something else, that is better suitable for the character and my interest.
Effect: I figured, if the changes are accepted, that they would happen after the Closed Eye adventure concludes or work something out with Covaithe, perhaps intertwine the changes with the current adventure.
Wow a couple of Assassin's rebuilds cropping up. Why even try to play consistently with races and classes. We should instead just have a Name and then tied to that Name is a pool of XP and GOLD. Then people can adjust things between every module to their liking. Then of course, why have rules if we are going to have exceptions all the time. Yet nick-pick about stuff that one PC may pick up if he creates his character a certian way because of possible "abuse."
I have to agree with THB. If the choice is between allowing overhauls like this and having brand-new characters popping up to replace original characters that the player didn't like the mechanics of (but still liked the character - personality, motivations, etc...), then I'd rather allow these overhauls.
Besides, we've had, what, 5 of these? We have about 75 active characters in 15 adventures, so it's not like it's something everyone is doing, and no one has done it twice (nor would I look favourably on anyone attempting to do it twice).
I'll also point out that, according to the fluff on revenants, you could argue that Atreus' race isn't changing. Revenants are created when someone dies and gets 'sent back' to fulfill some purpose. If the human Atreus dies and gets sent back as a revenant, then he's a revenant. Zero refluffing of the character needed for that part.
It's like Nightcrawler + Batman rolled up into one class. Also, it's exclusive.
Apologies for the somewhat unrelated comment, but hearing the Assassin compared to Nightcrawler makes me want to play one... though that'd cost me at least ten bucks to sign up for a month of DDI to access, which is money I don't have. *Bamf!*
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Why even try to play consistently with races and classes. We should instead just have a Name and then tied to that Name is a pool of XP and GOLD. Then people can adjust things between every module to their liking. Then of course, why have rules if we are going to have exceptions all the time.
Now, that's is a bit harsh, isn't it .
Well, I agree that it would be a shame if everybody started to change their classes, races and such every other month, but this is not the case. Every character has the overhaul option once during their character careers and if they want, they can make dramatic changes to their class, like feats, powers, ability scores and class features.
This is just such an affair and not a monthly change. I know the changes would be permanent.
I also agree that there should be "rules" or as I like to see them as guidelines to make a consistent community. I am pretty sure if someone started to abuse the overhaul system or other loopholes to customise his/hers character all the time, the community would interfere and strike hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBarking
So is the solution to force people to continue playing characters they don't want to play?
I sure hope not
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal Malenkirk
I have nothing constructive to say except; what is so damn attractive about the assassin class?
We'll soon have more assassins than warforged!
Its just flat out cool! It also has this forbidden charm over it. Mostly its pretty unique in its design and I am sure it would be very fun to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBarking
It's like Nightcrawler + Batman rolled up into one class.
Wow a couple of Assassin's rebuilds cropping up. Why even try to play consistently with races and classes. We should instead just have a Name and then tied to that Name is a pool of XP and GOLD. Then people can adjust things between every module to their liking. Then of course, why have rules if we are going to have exceptions all the time. Yet nick-pick about stuff that one PC may pick up if he creates his character a certian way because of possible "abuse."
Well, considering my PC was created on day 1 of L4W I think it would be disingenuous to make this accusation, albeit with a brief break. Not sure where the vitriolic nature of this post came from, but if you have issues with how L4W is being run, perhaps an e-mail to the judges off-line to discuss in a constructive manner rather than slagging others here would be more effective.
The whole reason I wish to switch up to assassin is that it fits my PC much better, there was always something slightly off with him in my mind's eye, so once assassin came out I realized this was a better fit. It most certainly isn't a move to get a more powerful PC (in which case I'd probably switch to ranger) or drastically changes how Murphy acts, heck I might even switch his persona when he comes back to the tavern, who knows.
"Every time your character gains a level, you can retrain one feat, power, and skill. If new character options have been approved for play in L4W since your character’s last approval of submission or level-up, you may additionally retrain one new feat, power, and class feature (when selectable) from the new source(s).
Once before your character is approved for level 2, you may do an overhaul of your character. This is a single opportunity in that character’s career to recreate all mechanical aspects of the character except for class, race, ability scores, and basic character concept. The overhaul must be approved as per the normal rules for character approval, and requires DM permission if the character is involved in an adventure."
Yes, but if you're unhappy with your class, that's not going to help. I've played RL games where people become massively unhappy with their class after a few sessions once they figure out exactly how it plays. Changing a feat or skill or even class feature isn't always enough.
Frankly, I'd rather people be having fun with their characters. No sarcasm, I'm sorry if stuff like this lessens your enjoyment of L4W. But I think it's more important that Atriden be happy with his character than anyone else be happy with his character.
Finally, this isn't really screwing with continuity. Atriden put forward a justification based on his character background as to why this would happen.
I'm curious what about this has got you so worked up?
I think that Nebten wants everyone to follow the rules that are in place. If THB want to make this change, then maybe a proposal to change the second level overhaul rule should be made. That way others, besides THB, could take advantage of doing the same thing if they don't like something about their characters (only at second level).
I'm curious what about this has got you so worked up?
I think it's what dimsdale said. It was most likely aggravated by multiple people doing it at the same time.
I have to admit I thought the same thing. Add to that I'd been waiting to make a second character until something new came out that I wanted to try. If I can just morph my characters into what I want to play at any point and at any level, I could have just made up any old character without worrying about class and race and been playing for a while now just to collect EXP for that 'future' character.
That said I'm not seriously miffed about it. More mildly irked. I'd have just let it pass if Nebten hadn't said something.
... If I can just morph my characters into what I want to play at any point and at any level, I could have just made up any old character without worrying about class and race and been playing for a while now just to collect EXP for that 'future' character.
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Ah, I see. The judges have already stated that this has only happened a handful of times (which is why each case needs to be reviewed) and if in 6-8 months (whenever PHB3 comes out) I said "hey judges I'm tired of being an assassin, I think Murphy should be a monk now", I'd expect them to say "go to hell, time to make a new PC". Personally, I'm less a fan of racial changes, although in Atriden's case it's not a true racial change, he's still considered human.
If you are just playing some stats or numbers (rather than a PC) you might do what you're suggesting above, but I know that myself (and Atriden) are actually doing this for the opposite reason, we both really enjoy our PC's and don't want them to go away.
LOL I understand renau1g, which is why I'm only mildly irked. If someone didn't knowing you, you can see how someone can think that way can't you?
The thing is I don't really know Atriden that well so I can't be as sure of his motives. I know I could make up a character I like and not have his personality wrapped up in his class and race so I could see someone else being able to.
If THB want to make this change, then maybe a proposal to change the second level overhaul rule should be made. That way others, besides THB, could take advantage of doing the same thing if they don't like something about their characters (only at second level).
A. I already proposed that a few months ago. It got shot down.
B. I've changed my mind. I'm going to stick with warlock. Although I'm neither of the people who proposed changing their characters.
C. The level limit was removed from the overhaul a while back. Someone, maybe even me, really should update the charter.
Wow, I didn't expect so much fuss over my overhaul, but then again it is understandable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimsdale
I think that Nebten wants everyone to follow the rules that are in place. If THB want to make this change, then maybe a proposal to change the second level overhaul rule should be made. That way others, besides THB, could take advantage of doing the same thing if they don't like something about their characters (only at second level)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBarking
C. The level limit was removed from the overhaul a while back. Someone, maybe even me, really should update the charter.
I have found the thread here and here is a reference to the three judges that approved of overhaul at all levels:
Proposal: here
Approval: 1 , 2 , 3
Even though the overhaul can be made regardless of level, the issue is still at hand since the changes are bigger then the system allows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elecgraystone
I have to admit I thought the same thing. Add to that I'd been waiting to make a second character until something new came out that I wanted to try. If I can just morph my characters into what I want to play at any point and at any level, I could have just made up any old character without worrying about class and race and been playing for a while now just to collect EXP for that 'future' character.
I understand what you mean, but I still don't think its the case in this situation. Much of the character concept is still intact. I could understand the argument if I were to change Atreus from a Rogue to a barbarian, something so extreme that the character concept would be completely ruined.
And, this is fairly early in my characters career, he is still level 2 (almost level 3) which makes the change less dramatic than if he did it at level 20.
The race issue, well as renau1g said, he is still part human and so I wouldn't say it is completely out of line, like changing from human to Kenku.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renau1g
If you are just playing some stats or numbers (rather than a PC) you might do what you're suggesting above, but I know that myself (and Atriden) are actually doing this for the opposite reason, we both really enjoy our PC's and don't want them to go away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBarking
Finally, this isn't really screwing with continuity. Atriden put forward a justification based on his character background as to why this would happen.
Exactly. Thanks for backing me up
Quote:
Originally Posted by elecgraystone
The thing is I don't really know Atriden that well so I can't be as sure of his motives. I know I could make up a character I like and not have his personality wrapped up in his class and race so I could see someone else being able to.
Well, I would say that in my case my characters background has much to do with how he is, his skills and line of trade. From a very young age, he has been trained in assassination, to infiltrate others and most importantly, survive the cruel world. With the change, he goes is own way's, adapting new powers and skills so that he might better counter any threat and pursue his ultimate goal in life, which is to be a strong as possible and return to the kingdom to rid the world of the wretched souls whom framed him and his master. Being able to do so has a price and that price is that he must give away some of his humanity in order to return to the world of the living and finish what he had begun.
If you want to get to know me, please feel free to do so. I am currently in league with the Punishment Patrol in Covaithe's adventure " The Closed Eye " - Part 1(my entry into the game) and Part 2.
You will learn I am not such a bad guy ... well Atreus might be
And, I am also in stringbeans creepy adventure " Enemy among us " with my earth genasi Atlas.
Last edited by Atriden; 18th October 2009 at 01:35 PM..
Well Atriden, my comments were mainly in reply to this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renau1g
Nebten,
I'm curious what about this has got you so worked up?
I personally wasn't looking for a justification from you on why you are doing this. Your intentions are most likely in the right place but I was pointing out how it looked from the outside. And, as you said, the judges are backing you up so you most likely don't need to convince them.
A far as getting to know you, time isn't on my side I'm afraid. I really should be doing other things instead of posting here including finishing up my ebberon character. Everyone seems to understand now why Nebten might have been voicing objections so my job here is done!
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