A few Complete Arcane Spells

Bront · 23rd June 2007, 05:37 AM

Just a few spells to approve:

Low-Light Vision
Phantasmal Assailants
Wall of Gloom
Earthen Grasp
Swim
Familiar Pocket
Mage Armor, Greater
Stony Grasp
Shadow Binding

Wik · 23rd June 2007, 08:21 AM

I'd like to add the feat "melodic casting" to the list, as well as the Lyric Thaumaturgist PrC... mostly for a bard I want to make.

Wik · 23rd June 2007, 08:22 AM

Er... except those are from Complete Mage. I'm a fool.

Bront · 23rd June 2007, 08:35 AM

Get your own thread

These are just spells from the complete arcane, and I'm doing them a few at a time.

stonegod · 23rd June 2007, 10:28 PM

Anyone know if any of these are "errata'd" in Spell Compendium?

I don't recall having a problem w/ any of them, though I still think greater mage armor is a poor 3rd level spell (it'd be better ala magic vestments or such with a slow increment).

Someone · 23rd June 2007, 10:50 PM

I recall greater mage armor to have a costly material component in CA, and being component-free in SC.

Bront · 24th June 2007, 01:23 PM

See, I don't have SC.

stonegod · 22nd July 2007, 03:25 AM

Earthen Grasp: Creates earth arm that grapples and pins for damage. CA and SC versions the same. Fine. YES

Familiar Pocket: Create extra-dim space for familiar. Changed to Sorc/Wiz 2 in SC, Gains total concealment instead of concealment. SC version fine. YES

Low-Light Vision: Gain low light vision. CA and SC version the same. YES

Mage Armor, Greater: +6 instead of +4. SC version has no material component. SC version fine. YES

Phantasmal Assailants: Deal Dex/Wis damage w/ illusionary foes if Will save fails. Fear-based. CA version does 4 (2 on successful Fort follow up), SC does 8 (4 otherwise). * it pretty powerful for a 2nd level spell, though it does require 2 saves. Will wait on discussion on this.

Shadow Binding: Shadow entangles things in a burst. SC version removes the daze effect. YES

Stony Grasp: Buffer version of earthen grasp. CA and SC versions the same. YES

Swim: Gain a temporary swim speed. CA and SC versions the same. YES

Wall of Gloom: Creates a wall of darkness. CA and SC versions significantly different---the former creates a shapable wall that blocks site and forces Will saves to cross; SC version just blocks site with a flat wall. SC version seems about right for a 2nd level spell. YES for SC.

Bront · 22nd July 2007, 05:57 AM

On Phantasmal Assailants:
The two saves balance it out pretty well (one to negate, one to half). It's ceratainly aroudn the power levle spells like Scorching Ray or even Ray of Enfeblement (No save, touch attack, 1d6+1 strength at L3, more at L4). I actualy thought the CA one was a bit underpowered, so it's nice to see the SC one.

Solange · 31st July 2007, 07:53 AM

Are any of these spells approved yet? I might want a few for my 3rd level character.

stonegod · 31st July 2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solange

Are any of these spells approved yet? I might want a few for my 3rd level character.

No. I'm the only one to vote sofar.

Erekose13 · 1st August 2007, 09:23 AM

Earthen Grasp: YES

Familiar Pocket: Changed to Sorc/Wiz 1 in SC YES to SC version

Low-Light Vision: YES

Mage Armor, Greater: YES to SC version

Phantasmal Assailants: need to read up on differences and effect

Shadow Binding: need to read up on differences and effect

Stony Grasp: YES

Swim: YES

Wall of Gloom: need to read up on differences and effect

stonegod · 2nd August 2007, 03:08 PM

RA or KO will need to vote on this one (unless RA's doing one of those pocket vetoes....)

Rystil Arden · 2nd August 2007, 05:41 PM

I don't own SC. I vote YES to all that were not changed in SC. That's:

Earthen Grasp
Low-Light Vision
Stony Grasp
Swim

I'll also vote in Familiar Pocket, since no matter what they were doing, I can't see how the SC designers could have made Familiar Pocket into a spell that would affect balance.

Erekose13 · 8th August 2007, 08:34 PM

Phantasmal Assailants: YES to CA version. 8 wis and 8 dex damage is too much for a 2nd level spell even if it does require 2 saves.

Shadow Binding: YES to CA version. the entangle part is slightly weaker than the entangle druid spell (SR applies). At 3rd level it needs a bit more and the daze for 1 round is acceptable.

Wall of Gloom: YES to SC version. The CA version is too complex and seems a bit powerful for a 2nd level spell. the SC version (just blocking line of sight but allowing a bigger wall) seems more appropriate.

Rystil Arden · 8th August 2007, 08:44 PM

I can definitely vote YES to the CA versions of PA and SB. If Wall of Gloom is even weaker in SC, it won't be a problem, so that's acceptable too. It wasn't too troublesome with the CA version either, though the Will Save to pass was helpful for our Illusionist who had very high save DCs.

Bront · 9th August 2007, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erekose13

Phantasmal Assailants: YES to CA version. 8 wis and 8 dex damage is too much for a 2nd level spell even if it does require 2 saves.

Wall of Gloom: YES to SC version. The CA version is too complex and seems a bit powerful for a 2nd level spell. the SC version (just blocking line of sight but allowing a bigger wall) seems more appropriate.

I disagree for the most part with your assessment of these two.

PA is an all or nothing thing that requires 2 different saves and has SA, and damage wise (the 8 points on wis and dex) is on par with an increase from the 1st level spell Ray of Enfeblement (1d6+1/2lv strength or 3-8 at 3rd level and goes up from there), which is a no save touch spell.

I don't see the will save to pass through WoG being a dealbreaker either.

That said, I obviously approve the SC versions, as I feel the more powerful versions are ok, and I think they give Illusion some much needed pop in the spell catagory.

Rystil Arden · 9th August 2007, 06:17 AM

Ray of Enfeeblement never takes you to 0 and doesn't stack. A big brute losing Strength will weaken its attack, but that's about it. A brute enemy with lower than 8 Wis is catatonic immediately. And if it makes it barely, its Will save is now abysmal so you can do it again with ease.

Erekose13 · 9th August 2007, 06:02 PM

As RA pointed out PA is damage where as RoE is a penalty. That penalty goes away at the end of the spell duration and can't stack with more penalties. Damage sticks and can stack.

For WoG I don't think the CA one is over powered, I just feel that the SC version is cleaner and more appropriate for L2.

stonegod · 10th August 2007, 02:14 AM

Any other 2nd level ability damaging spells? Chill touch only does 1 Str on a failed save, but that is 1st. Touch of idiocy is a penalty to 3 stats, not damage. Feeblemind doesn't even do damage. Ego whip does 1d4 (save for half) Cha dmg.

Assume Foolish Fighter has a Fort +5 and Will +1 at 3rd level (14 Con, 12 Dex, and 10 Wis). Our chaster has a 15 Caster ability, so a DC 14 save. So, 24% of the time, Foolish takes 8 dmg to two stats, 36% takes 8, and 40% takes nothing, for an expected loss of about 3.5 to two states. In comparison, Foolish can expect to take 1.5 to one stat from Ego whip (and one that does not affect subsequent saves to the ability). A CR 3 shadow vs Foolish with its 1d6 Str touch attack at +3 expects to do 1.2 Str damage. Thus, in comparison to other CR 3 attacks, PA is quite stronger (unless my discrete conditional expectation is off, which it could be).