Dragonmarked

[Rystil Arden]

Originally Posted by stonegod

I've searched through the Detail thread and did not find this change. So, as it stands, 3 YES votes cement a proposal.

We can propose a change in another thread. Can't be retroactive, however.

If someone wants to be nice to RA, they can revoke their vote for the time being.

All I know is that if these pass, I will be rendered incompetent to judge any future material, as the balance of new material is predicate on what old material is allowed, so my ability to judge new material requires that I am familiar with all material currently extant in the setting.

Oh, and I just noticed--Happy Birthday by the way

[Bront]

Originally Posted by Rystil Arden

All I know is that if these pass, I will be rendered incompetent to judge any future material, as the balance of new material is predicate on what old material is allowed, so my ability to judge new material requires that I am familiar with all material currently extant in the setting.

Oh, and I just noticed--Happy Birthday by the way

That's why we have other judges. You don't need to bear all the burden of approving things. Honesly, saying No because 3 other judges said yes because you can't check everything seems... well, not what the system is designed for.

[Bront]

Originally Posted by Moggthegob

I will laos propose dragonmakr visionary and itsspells at later date but i think it can waitu ntul having a greater mark is even possible.

Please remove anythign that wasn't in the initial proposal, and add those to a new proposal elsewhere.

[Rystil Arden]

Originally Posted by Bront

That's why we have other judges. You don't need to bear all the burden of approving things. Honesly, saying No because 3 other judges said yes because you can't check everything seems... well, not what the system is designed for.

No, you don't understand. It means I can never judge any future material. If we let in substantial material of which I have no clue, I'm rendered permanently incompetent to judge.

Here's an example--I know there's something somewhere in this very book that, in a horrifingly broken and stupid move, makes a Dragonmarked character immune to being, I believe Dazed. And there are other things that give you something powerful in exchange for being Dazed. Let's say I own the book with the second set of things but don't know what's in Dragonmarked. I can't competently judge the second thing because I don't know about the first!

[Bront]

Originally Posted by Rystil Arden

No, you don't understand. It means I can never judge any future material. If we let in substantial material of which I have no clue, I'm rendered permanently incompetent to judge.

Here's an example--I know there's something somewhere in this very book that, in a horrifingly broken and stupid move, makes a Dragonmarked character immune to being, I believe Dazed. And there are other things that give you something powerful in exchange for being Dazed. Let's say I own the book with the second set of things but don't know what's in Dragonmarked. I can't competently judge the second thing because I don't know about the first!

Well, none of us have consistant access to previous books and some not at all, all the judges will have that problem eventualy.

I'm borrowing books to do the approval, so I can't always refer back to them.

[stonegod]

Originally Posted by Rystil Arden

All I know is that if these pass, I will be rendered incompetent to judge any future material, as the balance of new material is predicate on what old material is allowed, so my ability to judge new material requires that I am familiar with all material currently extant in the setting.

I wouldn't say incompetent, but I understand your issue. However, that is going to be an issue whenever we add content, and the reason we have the 6 month rule.

We could add a stipulation to proposals that some majority of the judges have the source material, though that would still leave those w/o in the lurch. In addition, if a judge w/o access to the text wants an item quoted to them, either an Amazon/Google book search or an email from another judge could help ameliorate this.

I don't believe anyone is trying to shut anyone out of the process, and I'd like to makes sure that we all can judge effectively *while* still allowing Eberron content to be added.

Originally Posted by Rystil Arden

Oh, and I just noticed--Happy Birthday by the way

Thanks!

[Rystil Arden]

Originally Posted by Bront

Well, none of us have consistant access to previous books and some not at all, all the judges will have that problem eventualy.

I'm borrowing books to do the approval, so I can't always refer back to them.

That...does nor boost my confidence in your approval of this stuff, you know

I'm actually fairly serious about my YES vote to material. If I vote YES on something, here or in LEW, that means I am saying that I find this okay, and you can hold me accountable if the material is bad or messes up the game.

[Rystil Arden]

Originally Posted by stonegod

I wouldn't say incompetent, but I understand your issue. However, that is going to be an issue whenever we add content, and the reason we have the 6 month rule.

We could add a stipulation to proposals that some majority of the judges have the source material, though that would still leave those w/o in the lurch. In addition, if a judge w/o access to the text wants an item quoted to them, either an Amazon/Google book search or an email from another judge could help ameliorate this.

I don't believe anyone is trying to shut anyone out of the process, and I'd like to makes sure that we all can judge effectively *while* still allowing Eberron content to be added.


Thanks!

Can you send me the Dragonmarked things that are about to be approved? I'm seriously going to judge myself unfit to judge.

[stonegod]

Originally Posted by Rystil Arden

Can you send me the Dragonmarked things that are about to be approved? I'm seriously going to judge myself unfit to judge.

I'll get to it tonight (thought I'm obviously a little busy ).

[Rystil Arden]

Considering its abilities, Blade of Orien granting full BAB is rather strong. I don't think any fighting-type Fighter or Barbarian d'Orien character would ever want to take their base class instead of it (Swift Leap Pounce Barbarians are scary!). On the other hand, there is an implicit requirement that you have to be a half-elf, so it's probably okay.

I'm going to assume you mean it gives the Blindfight feat and not Blindsight for Cyre Scout. If you actually mean it gives Blindsight as a feat, we need to quickly change someone's vote to disallow it, as Blindsight at level 6 is crazy, even if it costs a feat.

Orien Battle Stride looks like it isn't on the table yet, which is good--I can't believe it also gives +4 to all those checks in addition to the other ability. Just the 5 foot step is already massive.

I particularly oppose the Vigour spells as written, which I think everyone already knows. This will be an issue for the Dragonmark Adept feat.

Ray of Retaliation is *really really really really really* strong. Why does it automatically succeed? Why is it an Immediate action? Against Polar Ray, it's almost better than Spell Turning.

The others look fine--the broken feat I was particularly worried about was not on this list (whew!)

[Solange]

Originally Posted by Rystil Arden

Considering its abilities, Blade of Orien granting full BAB is rather strong. I don't think any fighting-type Fighter or Barbarian d'Orien character would ever want to take their base class instead of it (Swift Leap Pounce Barbarians are scary!). On the other hand, there is an implicit requirement that you have to be a half-elf, so it's probably okay.

Isn't House Orien human?

[Rystil Arden]

Originally Posted by Solange

Isn't House Orien human?

Oops, I mixed them up with Lyrander--darn it, humans are a strong race, they don't need this. In fact, the feat cost of the Dragonmarks hurts humans least of all.

I can't think of any circumstance where a Barbarian 16 will stand up mechanically to a Barbarian 6/BladeOfOrien10 unless that straight Barbarian has found some rather incredible feats to replace the ones the Blade of Orien spent on the Dragonmarks.

[Moggthegob]

Originally Posted by Rystil Arden

Oops, I mixed them up with Lyrander--darn it, humans are a strong race, they don't need this. In fact, the feat cost of the Dragonmarks hurts humans least of all.

I can't think of any circumstance where a Barbarian 16 will stand up mechanically to a Barbarian 6/BladeOfOrien10 unless that straight Barbarian has found some rather incredible feats to replace the ones the Blade of Orien spent on the Dragonmarks.

I beg to differ as a barbarian 16 you need alot of your feats to be an excellent damage source. Of course in LEB they do not have access to alot of the feats that allow them to do that.
YOu may have something of a point about fighter but even still as a character you have to specialize and be a member of the house and have two feats invested in being a member. A barbarian 6 going into that probably has power attack and thats it. Maybe one other feat. No having cleave and great cleave. No improved sunder and Improved bull rush or overrun. No(though illegal at this point ithink) Shock Trooper or Combat Brute.

[Rystil Arden]

Originally Posted by Moggthegob

I beg to differ as a barbarian 16 you need alot of your feats to be an excellent damage source. Of course in LEB they do not have access to alot of the feats that allow them to do that.
YOu may have something of a point about fighter but even still as a character you have to specialize and be a member of the house and have two feats invested in being a member. A barbarian 6 going into that probably has power attack and thats it. Maybe one other feat. No having cleave and great cleave. No improved sunder and Improved bull rush or overrun. No(though illegal at this point ithink) Shock Trooper or Combat Brute.

Oh, going into the class is very different than coming out of it, though, I think. And you're right that some of the more powerful/abusive tactical feats aren't legal yet--as I said, I judge things based on what we currently have available

But even after/if we add abusive charge feats beloved by all Barbarians, the Blade of Orien actually grows even more powerful. But just to even things at all levels of play (starting at 6 just entering the PrC), let's compare Barbarian4/Fighter2/BladeOfOrien10 to Barbarian 16--the two Fighter levels allow the Blade of Orien to take whatever two feats the Barbarian 16 took while the Blade of Orien was grabbing the Dragonmarks.

[Moggthegob]

Also, that barbarian is giving up his more powerful rages and ailties to have increased mobility. Sure rage is cool, but greater rage is spectacular. The blade of Orien misses out on that