Dragonmarked

Moggthegob · 2nd July 2007, 11:17 PM

I would like to propose Dragonmarked material as core, now that it has been well over 6 months since its release.

In lieu of the whole book becoming core for us I would like to make a few specific feats and PrCs from it core.

Prestige Classes:
Blade of Orien
Silver Key
Cyre Scout

Feats;
Quicken Dragonmark
Orien battle Stride
DragonMark Battle Strike
Dragonmark Adept
Dragon mark prodigy also falls under this category
Spells:
Fortify Dragonmark
Mask Abberant Dragonmark
ignite Dragonmark
Ray of Retaliation
Dancing Dragonmark

Also spells from the spell compendium used by the Dragonmark adept and dragonmark prodigy feats:
Ebon eyes
Bloodhound
Instant search
enrage animal
nature's favor
lesser vigor
stabilize
Dawn
second wind
Golem strike
stick
Benign transposition
dark way
amanuensis
Lionheart
Warning Shout
Insightful feint
net of shadows
electric jolt
updraft
dispel ward
Discern shapechanger
know vulnerabiities
circle dance
share husk
train animal
close wounds
vigor
Servant horde
Force ladder
quick potion
baleful tansposition
swift fly
speechlink
lesser spell immunity
mass resurgence
Blindsight
veil of shadows
Blinding winds
Down draft
Shadow cache
sign of sealing

also from magic of eberron
detect dragonmark
ancient knowledge
hidden ward
speaking stones
clothiers closet
A few of these will help my fighter others are jsut cool.

Bront · 3rd July 2007, 07:59 AM

Quicken Dragonmark is the only one I was familiar with, and that didn't seem too bad. I can't comment on the rest.

Moggthegob · 5th July 2007, 02:35 AM

*bump*

Bront · 5th July 2007, 02:41 AM

4th of July week will be slow. RA is out of town, KO is having computer troubles, E13 has been busy, and Stonegod... well, he has no excuse.

stonegod · 5th July 2007, 04:32 AM

- the Fourth isn't enough?

- I check the proposal that aren't mentioned in the discussion section about 1-2/wk
- Big work project upcoming so slow on my end until the 17th

That being said, I have dragonmarked and like much of the stuff, though some looks like it should be looked at carefully which I don't have the time for right now.

Maybe this weekend. Regardless, that'd be only two judges looking at it.

Erekose13 · 5th July 2007, 07:49 PM

I've got it and will take a look when I have time. Got 3 characters outstanding that I need to judge.

stonegod · 5th July 2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erekose13

I've got it and will take a look when I have time. Got 3 characters outstanding that I need to judge.

I've got two of those, is the third Mellub's? He didn't forward to me.

Erekose13 · 5th July 2007, 08:12 PM

yeah, i'll forward it now.

Bront · 9th July 2007, 09:25 AM

Got a chance to peek at one...

Prestige Classes:
Blade of Orien - Orien's Fury worries me a little bit, but not enough to say no to the class. YES
Silver Key - Can be entered as early as 4th level, and SR20 at 8th level? No, at least for the moment.
Cyre Scout - Different, but seems balanced. YES

Feats;
Quicken Dragonmark - Hrm... YES
Orien battle Stride- NO. The movie action needs to be limited to 1 extra 5' step per round (maybe 2 for a greater mark), otherwise it could result in odd situations giving you nearly unlimited movement.
DragonMark Battle Strike - YES. Odd, but I don't see it being that unbalanced given that it requites an action point, can only be taken by marked characters, and only effects marked characters. Remember, NPCs get to use it too

Dragonmark Adept - YES. It's like adding an extra "Moderate" dragonmark.
Lesser Aberrant Dragonmark - Added by me, but YES

Spells:
Fortify Dragonmark - YES (Seems rather weak)
Mask Abberant Dragonmark - YES
ignite Dragonmark - Maybe... being an invocation worries me for such a specific spell.
Ray of Retaliation - Note sure I like this one
Dancing Dragonmark - YES, though it's odd.

Moggthegob · 10th July 2007, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Got a chance to peek at one...

Feats;

Orien battle Stride- NO. The movie action needs to be limited to 1 extra 5' step per round (maybe 2 for a greater mark), otherwise it could result in odd situations giving you nearly unlimited movement.

I would not really be interested in twinking it. What I was interested in was the ability to break up full attacks or rapid shot if one of them happens to miss.

Bront · 10th July 2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moggthegob

I would not really be interested in twinking it. What I was interested in was the ability to break up full attacks or rapid shot if one of them happens to miss.

You want shoot on the run for that. Stock feat in the SRD. That's NOT what that feat does. (it's you get a move action if someone misses you in melee)

Rystil Arden · 10th July 2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

You want shoot on the run for that. Stock feat in the SRD. That's NOT what that feat does. (it's you get a move action if someone misses you in melee)

I think he doesn't want Shot on the Run--he wants the ability to destroy any sort of consecutive attack routine once a shot misses. But you're correct, Bront, that without a limit, this could create some idiotic situations.

Imagine, if you will, Two Fighters on the same team, both with Robilar's Gambit (or any other feat that gives AoOs on an attack against you) which requires Combat Reflexes. Let's say they have 26 Dex each (by the time they have Robilar's Gambit, that's likely) and Orien Battle Stride. They will be able to move 8x their normal movement in addition to all other movement by simply having one attack the other once and missing on purpose (#1 attacks #2 and misses on purpose, also provoking an AoO, so #2 attacks #1, missing on purpose, both have Orien Battle Stride and take the move to be adjacent again, and #1 gets an AoO on #2 thanks to Robilar's Gambit, so takes it, missing on purpose, and so on and so on.

Moggthegob · 19th July 2007, 09:39 PM

bump still looking for more approvals

stonegod · 22nd July 2007, 04:03 AM

Prestige Classes:
Blade of Orien: 6th level earliest entry (w/ Dragonmark Heir, 7th otherwise). Good BAB and Reflex. Battle uses of teleporting. Not unbalanced to me. YES

Cyre Scout: 4th lvl earliest entry (ranger, druid, or scout), Medium BAB, Good Fort/Will, gains some infusions. Odd, but not unbalanced. YES

Silver Key: 4th lvl entry (dwarf rogue), Med BAB, Good Ref/Will. The SR does seem a bit powerful. NO

Feats;
Dragonmark Adept: Not a single one of these spells has been approved IIRC, so approving the feat would be less useful. No Vote.

DragonMark Battle Strike: Fine. YES

Orien battle Stride: Its not a full move action, its only a 5' move, but it is unlimited. It does specifically mentions "opponent" not "attacker", which *should* rule out RA's trick (the pair are allies). I vote YES as it is, but will also support explicitly wording it so it applies to non-allies and/or limiting the movement.

Quicken Dragonmark: YES

Spells:
Dancing Dragonmark: YES
Fortify Dragonmark: YES
Ignite Dragonmark: YES
Mask Abberant Dragonmark: YES
Ray of Retaliation: YES

Bront · 22nd July 2007, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonegod

Orien battle Stride: Its not a full move action, its only a 5' move, but it is unlimited. It does specifically mentions "opponent" not "attacker", which *should* rule out RA's trick (the pair are allies). I vote YES as it is, but will also support explicitly wording it so it applies to non-allies and/or limiting the movement.

I just compare it to Dash, which is 5' extra move per move action. However, it lets you move after being attacked, which can be all sorts of extra useful. I think limiting it is a good thing.

Moggthegob · 1st August 2007, 06:35 AM

Well then what if I propose a modified version of Orien Battle Stride limiting it to one 5' step per round, two with a greater mark?

Rystil Arden · 1st August 2007, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moggthegob

Well then what if I propose a modified version of Orien Battle Stride limiting it to one 5' step per round, two with a greater mark?

That limit fixes extra movement abuses, but I think it is still a bit too strong against opponents with Claw/Claw/Bite and similar routines, or just in combination with Displacement or flat miss chances. Being able to break up full attacks if they ever miss you leads to problems in different areas. The example that comes to mind immediately, though is least useful due to the fact that it requires the feat Epic Dodge, is Epic Dodge + this feat. Epic Dodge lets you make one attack per round from your Dodge target automatically miss you. This feat lets you make sure you won't be taking more than 1 per round.

Erekose13 · 1st August 2007, 08:40 AM

Prestige Classes:
Blade of Orien - Yes
Silver Key - No; suggested modification: SR vs traps only.
Cyre Scout - Yes

Note that the minimum levels stonegod listed for Silver Key and Cyre Scout require a character to invest in the Education feat. I'm not sure I like that feat given how many PrCs use skill ranks to set minimum levels by class. This feat lets you get around any PrC that uses a Knowledge skill that is not typical for the intended base class.

Feats;
Quicken Dragonmark - Yes
Orien battle Stride - Yes; note that you can only take one immediate action per turn and it uses up your swift action on your next turn. This isn't as bad as everyone thinks.
DragonMark Battle Strike - Yes
Dragonmark Adept - would vote yes if all spells were in first. Need to be added to OP.
Lesser Aberrant Dragonmark (as added by Bront) - Yes

Spells:
Fortify Dragonmark - Yes
Mask Abberant Dragonmark - Yes
ignite Dragonmark - Yes
Ray of Retaliation - Yes
Dancing Dragonmark - Yes

Rystil Arden · 1st August 2007, 08:43 AM

I don't own the book, so I can only go on what people tell me

If it uses an Immediate Action, then it's much less problematic.

Rystil Arden · 1st August 2007, 08:46 AM

Hmm, that's three. Well, I can't remember if this is actually effective, but I'm going to vote NO to all of these that have three YES votes until I can get a look at the text of the feats, classes, etc. If worse comes to worse, I'll have to call my brother and have him read them to me.