[Proposal] Quintessential Items.

[Vertexx69]

I have a couple more things from Quintessential Fighter to put before the judges. Especially since mounts come up much more often at lvl 4.

Bit and Headpiece: The bit grants the rider a solid grip on the reins, while the headpiece shields the mount from bright lights and sudden noises. A mount wearing bit and headpiece gains a +2 item bonus to saving throws against fear and to end the following conditions: blinded, dazed, deafened. 5g, 6lbs.

Traveling Saddle: This saddle spreads a rider’s weight equally over the mount’s whole back and softens the prolonged irritation of a long journey. In addition, its particular shape lets air circulate between the saddle and the beast’s back, allowing for a better transpiration. A four-legged beast with a traveling saddle can carry 50% extra weight instead of the usual 25% extra weight. 7g, 10lbs.

Field Plate +10AC, -2 Check, -2 Speed, 120g, 60 lb.

Weapon Safety Catch: The catch can be a leather string (if you need to secure the weapon to light armor) or a small steel chain (for heavy armor). Although it does not prevent you from being disarmed, the catch keeps your weapon from falling too far from your position, or worse, into your enemy’s hands. Picking up a weapon protected with a weapon safety catch is a free action. 5g 1/2lb.

Kidney Belt: These thin metal sheets are added
to plate armor to protect the loins and prevent a
treacherous strike from hitting a vital spot. When
you are flanked while wearing this harness, you gain
resist 1 against all attacks from the creatures flanking
you. 8g, 1 1/2lbs.

Leather Padding: These stripes of soft leather are
added to a scale or plate armor’s junctions to reduce
the noise made by the gnashing steel. When you add
leather padding to your armor, you ignore Stealth
penalties imposed by the armor. 15g, 1/2lb.

Linen Gambison: This shirt is worn beneath chainmail.
It is usually made from linen or wool, and has a
padding of the same material or of horse hair and it
can reduce impact damage. When you wear a gambison
beneath your chainmail, you gain a +1 item bonus to
AC when you are attacked by hammers, maces, staves,
or unarmed attacks. 25g, 1 1/2lbs.

Metal Rivets: These steel clasps lock the sheets of a
plate armor together, increasing its protection against
slashing weapons. When you wear riveted armor, you
gain a +1 item bonus to AC when you are attacked by
axes, heavy blades, or light blades. 40g, 1lb.

Studded Leather Balteus: These two leather stripes
are tied to heavy armor to protect the wearer’s hips, allowing
part of the armor’s weight to rest on them. They
reduce the armor’s effective weight by one third for the
purposes of encumbrance. 5g, 1lb.

[elecgraystone]

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Bit and Headpiece:

This should come with a SERIOUS reduction in perception for the mount. -4 sounds about right.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Traveling Saddle:

+25% extra weight seems a bit much. Look at the Muleback Harness item. For 520gp, you can carry 50 more pounds.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Field Plate:

Not a fan. Seems too strong. vs plate it's +2 AC, -1 speed and +10 lbs.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Weapon Safety Catch:

This is needed? What disarms?

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Kidney Belt:

Doesn't make any sense. If I hit from the front, it's a normal hit but as soon as my friend walks behind you I have to take off a point?

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Leather Padding:

I'd have it double your check penalty for any other checks. All that padding throws off everything else you do.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Linen Gambison and Metal Rivets:

I'd say no to these. They are just a pain in the butt to DM. There are monsters that use weapons that are described. Do these work against them? Rivets work against claws? The Gambison work against a bludgeoning attack? What if the weapon has the effected type and another one?

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Studded Leather Balteus:

No for two reasons. 1 it's too good. Match that up with the armor you proposed above and it's 20 lbs saved! The muleback harness waist item saves 50 and it costs 520 so this should cost 208gp.

Second, your strength is enough to carry your equipment anyway. Lets say your strength is average at a 10. You have put on plate[50lbs], have a double axe[15 lbs] and your adventuring equipment [33lbs]. That's 98 lbs and you got the heaviest stuff out there.

[renau1g]

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

I have a couple more things from Quintessential Fighter to put before the judges. Especially since mounts come up much more often at lvl 4.

Bit and Headpiece: The bit grants the rider a solid grip on the reins, while the headpiece shields the mount from bright lights and sudden noises. A mount wearing bit and headpiece gains a +2 item bonus to saving throws against fear and to end the following conditions: blinded, dazed, deafened. 5g, 6lbs.

No, they're too powerful with little cost. Equivalent magic items cost significantly more

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Traveling Saddle: This saddle spreads a rider’s weight equally over the mount’s whole back and softens the prolonged irritation of a long journey. In addition, its particular shape lets air circulate between the saddle and the beast’s back, allowing for a better transpiration. A four-legged beast with a traveling saddle can carry 50% extra weight instead of the usual 25% extra weight. 7g, 10lbs.

No, they're too powerful with little cost. Equivalent magic items cost significantly more (See the level 2 Muleback Harness)

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Field Plate +10AC, -2 Check, -2 Speed, 120g, 60 lb.

No, marginal cost for large benefit.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Weapon Safety Catch: The catch can be a leather string (if you need to secure the weapon to light armor) or a small steel chain (for heavy armor). Although it does not prevent you from being disarmed, the catch keeps your weapon from falling too far from your position, or worse, into your enemy’s hands. Picking up a weapon protected with a weapon safety catch is a free action. 5g 1/2lb.

Yes I see no real issue with it, not a ton of benefit either though. I'm guessing it would be effective against creatures that dominate (see Baelnorn Lich, sp?) that would have the PC drop their weapon and move away from it during the domination and then pick it up themselves.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Kidney Belt: These thin metal sheets are added
to plate armor to protect the loins and prevent a
treacherous strike from hitting a vital spot. When
you are flanked while wearing this harness, you gain
resist 1 against all attacks from the creatures flanking
you. 8g, 1 1/2lbs.

No, this is rather odd mechanically. As elec pointed out. It's also a pain to judge/dm

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Leather Padding: These stripes of soft leather are
added to a scale or plate armor’s junctions to reduce
the noise made by the gnashing steel. When you add
leather padding to your armor, you ignore Stealth
penalties imposed by the armor. 15g, 1/2lb.

No, this is way too good. It grants up to a +2 on stealth checks which cost 680 gp (lvl 3) with the boots of stealth.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Linen Gambison: This shirt is worn beneath chainmail.
It is usually made from linen or wool, and has a
padding of the same material or of horse hair and it
can reduce impact damage. When you wear a gambison
beneath your chainmail, you gain a +1 item bonus to
AC when you are attacked by hammers, maces, staves,
or unarmed attacks. 25g, 1 1/2lbs.

No, this is rather odd mechanically. As elec pointed out. It's also a pain to judge/dm, this reminds me of the stuff from 2e that was essentially the same, differing AC's depending on the nature of the attack.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Metal Rivets: These steel clasps lock the sheets of a
plate armor together, increasing its protection against
slashing weapons. When you wear riveted armor, you
gain a +1 item bonus to AC when you are attacked by
axes, heavy blades, or light blades. 40g, 1lb.

No, this is rather odd mechanically. As elec pointed out. It's also a pain to judge/dm, this reminds me of the stuff from 2e that was essentially the same, differing AC's depending on the nature of the attack.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Studded Leather Balteus: These two leather stripes
are tied to heavy armor to protect the wearer’s hips, allowing
part of the armor’s weight to rest on them. They
reduce the armor’s effective weight by one third for the
purposes of encumbrance. 5g, 1lb.

No, they're too powerful with little cost. Equivalent magic items cost significantly more (See the level 2 Muleback Harness). I'd be ok if they cost more (like 360 gp)

[stonegod]

I'll comment on these specifically below, but these items are designed from a 3.5E point of view, not a 4E one. There are very few items that actually grant bonuses of the type you list below that are not magic and thus significantly more expensive.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Bit and Headpiece

An item such as this for a player would be somewhere between 3rd and 7th level at minimum (dazed is a powerful condition); items of similar power for mounts are at lower level but no where near the 5gp price.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Traveling Saddle

The Saddle of Strength (AV 124) does this; it is a level 3 item.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Field Plate

You'd never be able to purchase this at character creation (for first level), and to get equivalent magic normal plate would require a 6th level item. Its also not consistent with PH armor design space.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Weapon Safety Catch

There are a few creatures with powers to disarm, but not many. You don't even drop a weapon when you are unconscious. I have nothing particularly against this as its utility is pretty rare.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Kidney Belt

As elec said above, this has an odd starting condition, especially for a mundane item. Adamantine Plating is a level 4 item that grants resist 1 to all (in all cases), so I'd expect resist 1 for flanking would be at least level 2/3.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Leather Padding

Scale armor has no stealth check penalties. Mithral Plating (level 2) does the same (and only that) for plate on warforged; Eladrin Armor (level 3) does the same for chain, so I'd suspect such an item would be level 3 minimum.

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Linen Gambison & Metal Rivets

2nd edition (and its weapon vs. armor table) is dead. I dislike these on principle. Outside of principle, they'd still be something more akin to a magic item than a mundane one in 4E (so they're too cheep).

Originally Posted by Vertexx69

Studded Leather Balteus

The Muleback Harness lvl 2 item does this better, so this would have to be at least a 1st level magic item.

These items seems very much like 3E items as I mentioned. I'd probably allow them in my 3E games w/ some modification. But 4E is very different conceptually, and the designers of these items don't seem to grok that.

Note, these are not official votes (discussion is still open), but I don't think I'm likely to be swayed.

[CaBaNa]

Can I tie my orb to something? then pick it up as a free action? Switching between orbs or weapons that way makes a huge difference. In fact, there is a feat that does something similar. it's called quick draw.

Who wouldn't buy this?

[renau1g]

Good Point Cabana. I didn't even think about it.

[elecgraystone]

Originally Posted by CaBaNa

Can I tie my orb to something? then pick it up as a free action? Switching between orbs or weapons that way makes a huge difference. In fact, there is a feat that does something similar. it's called quick draw.

Who wouldn't buy this?

Oh I like that. Let one hand off my fullblade [free action], re-arm my wand [free], cast spell [standard], drop wand [free], re-wield fullblade [minor], move [move]. Ok, now i want to buy one!

Feel free to replace wand with superior cross bow for my artificer!

Or I could switch between my fullblade and my greatspear! Nothing said the weapon had to be one handed! Who needs quickdraw!

[ukingsken]

Yeah Instead of re-hashing whats been said I'm just gonna cast a NO Vote for everything. They're all either overpowered, a pain to dm/judge, undercosted, or just kind of pointless.

I've never been a fan of a lot of the mongoose publishing stuff, I find it always unbalances or complicates things unnecessarily.

[Vertexx69]

Yah I'm starting to notice that mongoose likes to unbalance things in their own games too ;p I withdraw all these items from consideration.