Boost needs to be fixed. Right now, it's way too abusable, and as much as a player I'm enjoying it, a good example is what is going on in Help Wanted, where every character has +10 to their physical atributes, normaly a 72 point power, that only was purchased for 2 points and is not prohibiting the use of any other power. (Not trying to pick on you Erekose13)
So, what is a good way to fix this? My thought, after talking with someone else, is to change the effect so that boost only works as long as you have the power as your active power. If you change over to another power in the array, the effects cease immediately, just like it was a force field or mind control.
However, I'd like to open this up for discussion.
__________________ PbP Mod. PM or E-mail if you have questions or issues. Visit Bront.org
It's fine for the most part as an individual power, it's when it's an alternate power that's it's mostly broken.
Good - Hulk's "Hulking" part of boost. (A power into itself)
Bad - Any use of Boost that allows you to do something else afterward with the power points WHILE the Boost is in effect.
__________________ PbP Mod. PM or E-mail if you have questions or issues. Visit Bront.org
Boost needs to be fixed. Right now, it's way too abusable, and as much as a player I'm enjoying it, a good example is what is going on in Help Wanted, where every character has +10 to their physical atributes, normaly a 72 point power, that only was purchased for 2 points and is not prohibiting the use of any other power. (Not trying to pick on you Erekose13)
So, what is a good way to fix this? My thought, after talking with someone else, is to change the effect so that boost only works as long as you have the power as your active power. If you change over to another power in the array, the effects cease immediately, just like it was a force field or mind control.
However, I'd like to open this up for discussion.
I think that's a very good point.I like what you've suggested so far, but I would like to research any other ideas I can get off the Atomic Think Tank. Any ideas we can at least kick around a bit would be good. Most people on that site seem to agree that it is at least slightly broken. I was wondering what Erekose13 thought since he's the one likely to feel the fallout.
The book even states it can be abused and is broken in some situations, and I've already been tough on it, but it seems I may have been too lenient as well. So hard rules would fix it without changing anything else.
__________________ PbP Mod. PM or E-mail if you have questions or issues. Visit Bront.org
Honestly it really has had no effect on the game really. My character was alreasdy capped out for Damage and Toughness. With the PL caps in place the only effect it had was on my carrying capacity.
Now if you see a character who has Personal Boost to all Physical attributes that has Slow Fade applied to it so it never fades away....To make a combat monster, Just to save points! That is abuse. So far I dont think in Erekose's case it did much.
So basically it seems like a character creation approval issue.
I've been thinking of it, and I've looked at Salix link. Here where is my thinking for now:
Yes, the power is broken. I think Erekose13 build is among the more abusive possibilities. (Take no offence Erekose13, the idea fits well your concept.) I was looking at that thread on ATT. It explain Drain, which is the reverse of Boost essentially. I have many suggestion on how to fix it, but no one seems THE solution to me:
1. Boost is Personal by default. The Affect other extra cannot be applied to it. The super with this power, can, with the expenditure of a HP, affect someone else.
2. Total Fade cannot be applied.
3. Slow Fade cannot be applied or is limited.
4. The number of PP gain through boost can only be distribute among the different power that should be affected, not given to each power. (The number of PP avalaible can be modified so it equal to the basic cost per rank multiply by the number of rank, not only 1 PP per rank, to not lose interest with higher cost Boost.)
__________________ Living ENWorld di Senzio's Magical Shop, the best place to buy and sell magical items in Orussus
I think Boost is probably fair if and only if you make them pay for it while the effects remain, instead of getting a gigantic boost for only 1 PP due to alternates and then having it up at all times while using the alternates. Remember, Boost does not have the [Lasting] descriptor in its duration, so it should be perfectable acceptable to say that the moment you activate any other power in the array, the Boost fades completely from all of its beneficiaries.
IMO it's fine as an instant (or continuous, if you prefer) as long as you specify that it fades when you swap alts due to it not being [Lasting] effect, but sustained would definitely help reign it in. Not sure if it makes sense for the personal boost (like the Hulk) to go away while stunned, though.
__________________ "That's so far over the line between genius and madness, it passed all the way through Cthulhuville and normalcy and all the way back to brilliance!"--MoogleEmpMog
A personally really like how they did Adrenal Surge in Ultimate Power.
It is a Boost power that effects Str and Con and you CANT boost again until the power runs its course. AND you are Fatigued after the boost wears off.
Basically this to me is Boost done well.
Some powers are more obviously abusable then others. Boost does fit into that category. I think strict screening is needed rather then rules changes.
If you see someone with Slow Fade slapped on so many times or Boosts that effect EVERYTHING.
Frankly though most characters are near thier PL Caps. With those enforced I have yet to see it make a game-breaking impact. My character Roughneck hasnt done anymore damage or really get any tougher. He could lift more, that was about it.
I'd like to see some limits put on it. I'd just like to spend a little time reading up before suggesting limits. I'd definitely like to see it drop if you use a different alternate power. On a different subject, I also have some concerns about healing. I'd like to see any future characters restricted to empathic healing. Body and Spirit is an extremely powerful build (not Erekose13's fault, but hard to GM). The only thing that's slowing him down in Help Wanted is that there is only one biological enemy.
Frankly though most characters are near thier PL Caps. With those enforced I have yet to see it make a game-breaking impact. My character Roughneck hasnt done anymore damage or really get any tougher. He could lift more, that was about it.
My guess is that a Boost in the correct areas would be a big deal--not on damage, attack, defense, or toughness, since as you say, most characters are at or near the cap, but instead on stats that provide skill bonuses (the cap there is only on ranks) or the other saving throws besides Toughness (they have an incredibly high cap compared to the DC cap, but most characters don't hit them. If most characters did hit the cap of PL + 5 in all categories thanks to Boost, pretty much nothing with a save other than Toughness would be effective).
Really though, I don't think Boost as an alternate power can not be broken if you give it a decent enough duration and you don't stipulate that the entire effect ends when another alt power is chosen--even if it is only personal, you spend 1 point for a large gain that you can keep by spending an action every hour or so to refresh it, never actually having to pay an opportunity cost of losing the other powers in the array.
Imagine something fairly modest--a character has a 27 PP power. Doesn't matter what it is (could be an area Blast, for instance), she just has one. She was thinking of spending 60 points to have 20 in all her stats instead of 10. Instead, she decides to get an alternate power of Boost to her 27 PP power for 1 PP. She buys the 3 point per rank Boost that raises all stats, with the Personal flaw and 7 Slow Fades, though no Total Fade. So for 1 point, she has avoided spending 60 points and effectively has 20 in all stats at all times. She won't miss out on her normal 27 PP power either, since she only has to avoid using it on the one round ever 50 minutes she activates it. How is this fair?
Body and Spirit is an extremely powerful build (not Erekose13's fault, but hard to GM).
Heh--boy was I happy I didn't have to GM that character! It seems to me that you either hit him first (which pretty much automatically defeats him because he spent next to nothing on combat or saves, though the physical stat boost will do for Toughness and Fortitude) instead of any allies or you will lose the fight, and I feel bad about doing that.
Did the incorporeal half forget that when you select Incorporeal, you have to also select one additional 'fairly common' form of attacks other than Mental effects that can harm you? I know this because I have a Face to Face character who was incorporeal. He also wanted immunity to Mental, but seeing as it was one of the two things that works on incorporeal creatures, I told him to find something else.
Last edited by Rystil Arden; 8th September 2006 at 09:48 AM..
On a different subject, I also have some concerns about healing. I'd like to see any future characters restricted to empathic healing.
Eh, as we discussed in The Antiques Roadshow, that effectively prevents anyone from using healing on themselves. Somehow, that seems contrary to the intent of the power.
Lest that seem like a game breaker, I should point out that you can only heal one character at a time, unless you also spend the points to make healing an area-effect power, or get super-fast healing and add a range mod to it (more points), or get fast healing and super speed of some sort (again, more points). And when you spend all those points, you have fewer to do other things with...like having decent offensive and defensive powers.
I think one reason B&S is so effective is that he's a specialist who compliments the group that he's in very well. I don't think he'd be so strong in a solo adventure, or in a small group. Notice that he's been pretty much powerless to affect the boss villain. But in a group like that, there's always someone who needs healing...
Eh, as we discussed in The Antiques Roadshow, that effectively prevents anyone from using healing on themselves. Somehow, that seems contrary to the intent of the power.
That's not such a problem--you can get Regeneration to heal yourself.
That's not such a problem--you can get Regeneration to heal yourself.
Well, that's kind of interesting. My character does have Regeneration (more points!), but no points of Regen in Stagger recovery. And that means that my PC is just as helpless when staggered as anyone else, despite 25 points between Regen and Healing.
I guess what I'm saying is that if my character can't eventually buy off the empathic healing flaw, it will have to grow in a pretty different direction than the one I originally intended...
Healing isn't realy broken. You recover 1 condition per heal check. Period. 1 Bruise, Injury, Stun, Stagger, Dying, etc, and you still have to make the check (not hard, but still). Doesn't seem too bad.
The only problem with Boost I've actualy seen in game so far, is that Gun Monkey's Leap increased to 84, over doubling his normal leap. Now, I intend to eventualy get him near there, but the movement is a huge advantage. The extra +5 on his toughness save (already maxed), fort save (wasn't maxed) and unarmed damage are nice, and while they haven't been game breaking, they were essentialy free.
Yeah, I think the easy fix is Boost effects 1 person (unless purchased with extra people, a power feat), and as an alternate power, goes away if the power changes.
__________________ PbP Mod. PM or E-mail if you have questions or issues. Visit Bront.org
Imagine something fairly modest--a character has a 27 PP power. Doesn't matter what it is (could be an area Blast, for instance), she just has one. She was thinking of spending 60 points to have 20 in all her stats instead of 10. Instead, she decides to get an alternate power of Boost to her 27 PP power for 1 PP. She buys the 3 point per rank Boost that raises all stats, with the Personal flaw and 7 Slow Fades, though no Total Fade. So for 1 point, she has avoided spending 60 points and effectively has 20 in all stats at all times. She won't miss out on her normal 27 PP power either, since she only has to avoid using it on the one round ever 50 minutes she activates it. How is this fair?
Basically I wouldnt allow it.
In my table top game I simply dont allow abuses of rules, even if they are "legal."
But I rarely institute a blanket change of a rule just because it has the potential for abuse. I just dont allow the abuse. If I realize later that I allowed something to "slip through" I disallow it. Case-by-case judgement. In keeping with the design philosophy of the game, thats the philosophy I'd like to see here.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
