Arrays, Containers, and Permanent Powers

[Hand of Vecna]

According to the Core Rulebook, Arrays (powers with alternate powers) cannot have Permanent powers in them, since a Permanent power is by definition one that cannot be turned off. Same goes for Variable structures, like Adaptation or Shapeshift.

However, Alternate Form -- a Container, or group of powers, that can be turned on/off -- lists several Permanent powers (notably, Immunity and Protection) as choices. Numerous write-ups in the Freedom City sourcebook also list folks using Alternate Forms or Variable structures to acquire Permanent powers. But how can this be, if Permanent powers cannot be turned off?

Ultimate Power addresses this.

An active Container has a default duration of sustained: the Container’s effects remain accessible so long as you maintain the Container’s activation each round as a free action. If you’re unable to maintain the Container, you also lose access to its effects. If a character in Alternate Form is unable to maintain that power, he reverts to normal form.
A passive Container has a default duration of permanent: the Container’s effects are always available and, in fact, cannot be made unavailable unless some other modifier comes into play. Take a suit of armor as a Device: it is a real, permanent item with certain traits that don’t go away unless you take off the armor, which is a particular flaw of Devices.
Like action, a Container’s duration does not affect the durations of the effects it contains, with one exception: permanent duration effects in a sustained or continuous duration Container do stop working if the Container is deactivated. While active, these effects still have the limitations of being permanent (no extra effort, no countering other effects) and you can’t switch them off selectively; you have to deactivate the entire Container.
So, for example, a hero who turns into solid steel has an active Container with (among other things) the Protection effect to reflect his steel-hard skin. Protection is a permanent effect, meaning our hero can’t improve it using extra effort. He also can’t just choose to turn off his Protection to allow a hypodermic to penetrate his skin, for example. He needs to turn off his entire Alternate Form Container, along with all its other effects. In some cases, the GM may decide a permanent duration doesn’t constitute a significant flaw when applied to an effect in a Container you can turn on and off, in which case the effect may have to have its duration modified.

Steve Kenson says Permanent effects in Arrays and Variable Structures can be okay, too -- they still have the drawbacks of being they're basically all-or-nothing, can't be enhanced through extra effort, and are usually passive in nature -- as long as the GMs don't think the players are abusing it.

(Not quite sure how to word this as a proper Proposal, so for now it's just a Discussion.)

[Rystil Arden]

I think that adding a totally beneficial Permanent power (like Immunity) in an array, etc is a no-brainer. As you correctly pointed out, the core actually already allowed this in a few examples. Also, for those powers, being Permanent isn't really a Drawback at all other than the extra effort all or nothing stuff. I would certainly look closely at any PC who tries to turn a normally-Continuous power Permanent to save points and then stick it in an array to make it not a problem, but things that start out Permanent like Regeneration and Immunity make a lot of sense to allow in alts.

[D.Shaffer]

Originally Posted by Hand of Vecna

Steve Kenson says Permanent effects in Arrays and Variable Structures can be okay, too -- they still have the drawbacks of being they're basically all-or-nothing, can't be enhanced through extra effort, and are usually passive in nature -- as long as the GMs don't think the players are abusing it.

I suspect they HAD to put that clarification in though. As mentioned, even in the core book, there are certain Variable/Container based powers that contain permanent powers. (The mentioned Immunity and Protection)

Would a proposal even be needed? This seems more like a clarification of how Permanent works more then anything else. To say you cant do it, period, invalidates several Core Powers as written to begin with.

[Hand of Vecna]

Another thing -- since Permanent powers are all-or-nothing, they cannot be part of a Dynamic array. Well, they can be in one, but the specific slot containing the Permanent power cannot itself be Dynamic.