Last night ventured way too close to "you're your own father" paradox nonsense, with the Lostees becoming the bearers of knowledge to the rather clueless-looking Others. And the focus is heavily on characters that aren't that great to begin with. Juliet's still dull. The redhead hasn't had any real attention, so whatever's happening to her has little gravitas. Locke lost his coolness factor a long time ago, which is probably the saddest blow Lost has suffered. So for me, Sawyer and Desmond bore a heavy burden in terms of entertainment.
I just completely disagree. On possible interpretation is that the Others are keyed to to the time/space of the island and thus never experience the jump, while the Losties and Juliet are keyed to regular space time.
Does anyone remember, was Locke in the Valley when the first jump happened? Perhaps the Temple is the Valley the Others were assembled in.
As for Locke losing his cool factor...whatever...agree to disagree.
As for Juliet...agree to disagree....the character is understated and the actress plays that very well.....frankly Kate has been bugging me for awhile now....but I appreciate understated.
As for the red head.....clearly she is more plot device, definition for Faraday now....very little different that Saul Thigh's wife in Battlestar...only in Lost they do not suddenly make her the object of the main plotline for the last 2 years (final 5 cylons) out of the blue and then just drop it.
Lost always has had compelling development on the characters it has needed. It has been implied she was born on the island, and her role was necessary to establish that Faraday has seen this condition from his experiments.
As for the "Padame" little blond girl...my money is that is Faraday's mother.
Caught up on line yesterday. I actually thought I was one step ahead of the show when I figured out who Charles Whidmore must be, but then the show went and let the cat out of the bag. He was a jerk back then, too.
__________________ "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place."
One little thing I liked is that they immediately set the ground rules in the beginning (with Desmond/Daniel) for changing the past - ie, you can't. Since Widmore is alive in the present, fate simply won't let him die in the past, even if Locke had tried.
Of course, what I don't get then is how Locke can meet Richard, since they hadn't met until Locke was two. Unless maybe Richard already knew Locke when they first "met," which I guess could be a way around that problem. Argh.
As for the "Padame" little blond girl...my money is that is Faraday's mother.
I thought that at first too... but now I think it's Charlotte's mother. Didn't she at some point allude to the fact that the island is somehow her 'home' (which fits her name --she's C.S. Lewis trying to return to Narnia as an adult)?
__________________ "We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way." -- Boyd, Dollhouse.
I'm betting she's the woman in the basement that Ben is talking to at the end of the second episode, who says he's only got 70 hours. And yes, I think she's Farraday's mom too (Ben's in LA, Farraday's mom is in LA, the mysterious woman in the church is in LA).
__________________ "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place."
One little thing I liked is that they immediately set the ground rules in the beginning (with Desmond/Daniel) for changing the past - ie, you can't. Since Widmore is alive in the present, fate simply won't let him die in the past, even if Locke had tried.
It's good to have ground rules, but how faithful they'll be to them remains to be seen. They've had to fudge plenty of stuff in the past due to failing to compensate for little unforseeable details, like getting rid of Walt--at one time a very important character--because someone failed to notify them that kids grow.
I think it would be fitting for Desmond to be the one to do Whitmore in. Ought not to go around just casually lopping off hands.
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Of course, what I don't get then is how Locke can meet Richard, since they hadn't met until Locke was two. Unless maybe Richard already knew Locke when they first "met," which I guess could be a way around that problem. Argh.
My take is that Richard hears Locke telling him that he's their leader, so Richard goes to check him out. Seems that Locke is lacking some character traits, which we all already knew (or most of us knew, at least).
Last edited by Felon; 30th January 2009 at 07:15 PM..
I thought that at first too... but now I think it's Charlotte's mother. Didn't she at some point allude to the fact that the island is somehow her 'home' (which fits her name --she's C.S. Lewis trying to return to Narnia as an adult)?
Are you saying that Faraday is Charlotte's father?
Of course, what I don't get then is how Locke can meet Richard, since they hadn't met until Locke was two. Unless maybe Richard already knew Locke when they first "met," which I guess could be a way around that problem. Argh.
I think Richard did know Locke, and the reason he was disappointed when he met the "young" Locke was because he was searching for him due to their having met in the past, but when young Locke failed the test, Richard thought he hadn't found the right John Locke and would have to keep looking.
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Originally Posted by Mallus
I thought that at first too... but now I think it's Charlotte's mother. Didn't she at some point allude to the fact that the island is somehow her 'home' (which fits her name --she's C.S. Lewis trying to return to Narnia as an adult)?
Plus Daniel and the woman have that discussion about her looking similar to Charlotte. It's definitely her mother.
__________________ "The greatest trick Doug Henning ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Keyser Soze
Still no new threads? I just caught up on the last episode online and was hoping that there might be some reaction, partiuclalry to the big revelation that Jin is still alive.
__________________ "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place."
JIn's survival is a big reveal, but we don't have any bedrock, bonafide, quantifiable developments to talk about. Just gotta keep watching and remain cautiously optimistic.
Still no new threads? I just caught up on the last episode online and was hoping that there might be some reaction, partiuclalry to the big revelation that Jin is still alive.
I think Richard did know Locke, and the reason he was disappointed when he met the "young" Locke was because he was searching for him due to their having met in the past, but when young Locke failed the test, Richard thought he hadn't found the right John Locke and would have to keep looking.
That was my supposition as well. That Alpert had come looking for John Locke but assumed after the test that he had found a different Locke.
Because of the knife.
But I knew Alpert had found the right Locke because Locke never wanted to be what others want him to be. He wants to be his own man and few others ever got that except Ben, but he still thought he could prevent that by disposing of him. Alpert wants Locke to lead, but Locke doesn't really want to lead, per se, despite his apparent jealousy of Jack. Locke is a trailblazer or scout, not a traditional leader. He doesn't want people to follow and obey him like Ben, or even to be looked to regularly, like Jack, he wants to be out ahead and to understand. His leadership is not based on influence, but on accumulated wisdom.
But the island wants a "wild card," and a "starting over" point now, and so it has been maneuvering for Locke for a long time. It wants to escape the Ben-Widmore tesseract. That's why it had Ben move it.
It wants to be moved beyond that particular paradigm, solve that series of conflicts once and for all, and figures Locke is the man to do that.
And he is.
Locke is the wild card that refuses to be pigeon-holed and thereby refuses to be "led." He also refuses to "lead" in the traditional sense. He's a background man. Man behind the scenes. In some ways he is a spymaster like Ben, but he isn't interested in manipulating others so much as manipulating events. To discover what is really going on.
Locke has been way ahead of everyone else for a long time, so far ahead he doesn't know where he is going yet because he got so far out in front he couldn't "see behind him anymore."
He got to the end of the trail before he realized he should be observing how it led backwards, or where he had come from.
That's why he's got to keep skipping backwards.
He's backtracking to try and figure out everything he missed along the way.
He's a tracker who forgot to put down his golden thread so he could get back out of the labyrinth.
But he'll get there and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets Sawyer or someone else to kill him to do it.
Well, once the series is over and we see the whole picture, I'm going to need something to help me see how all of this fit together from the beginning. Because part of the coolness of it will be seeing the structure that has emerged slowly.
__________________ "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place."
Most enjoyable moments. Jin and Sawyer reunion; Ben slamming on the breaks and telling Jack and Sun how much they should be thanking him (still the master manipulator); and Christian telling Locke to say hi to his son.
Some interesting developments.
* The smoke monster is guarding a temple (at least in 1988). Related to the four-toed statue?
* Charlotte was raised on the island. I'm thinking their ages are off but what was the name of the girl who befriended young Ben when he first arrived with his dad?
* Are the time shifts being caused by the wheel being off its axis? If not, what happens if less than the six come back to the island (and does Desmond need to go back as well)?
I thought it was a one way trip for Ben when he pushed the wheel; no coming back to the island. If so, what's he hoping to achieve.
I have to admit I'm pretty confused by Faraday's mom (assuming she is his mom). Anyone have any good theories?
__________________ Certainty of death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for!
Most enjoyable moments. Jin and Sawyer reunion; Ben slamming on the breaks and telling Jack and Sun how much they should be thanking him (still the master manipulator); and Christian telling Locke to say hi to his son.
If I had to name one element that was most unrealistic about this show it would be that anybody believes Ben for a second. I wouldn't believe him if he said the sky was blue. After his constant lies and manipulations they shouldn't trust him to do anything but be untrustworthy.
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* The smoke monster is guarding a temple (at least in 1988). Related to the four-toed statue?
It may be guarding the temple but unless they're retconning it a bit it's been seen plenty of other places on the island nowhere near the temple. In fact, until it was mentioned by the others as a meeting place we never knew the temple existed yet the smoke monster had been encountered plenty.
I also find it interesting that the temple is covered in heiroglyphics - or at least the same kind of symbols we saw on the timer in the hatch when it went critical. It's just a wild guess but I think that set of symbols will be used inside the temple to control or fix the island.
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* Are the time shifts being caused by the wheel being off its axis? If not, what happens if less than the six come back to the island (and does Desmond need to go back as well)?
My understanding has been that it's just the Oceanic 6 (and Locke) that need to return. They were brought to the island for specific reasons (not that we yet know what those reasons are) and it is the fulfillment of those reasons that they all need to be there. Something is meant to happen that requires them particularly.
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I thought it was a one way trip for Ben when he pushed the wheel; no coming back to the island. If so, what's he hoping to achieve.
Well it was BEN who said it - so don't believe it. All turning the wheel did/does is shift the island in time/space. Doing that apparantly tosses the turnee out into the world somewhere/somewhen. In Bens case he went to Tunisia 10 months into the future. The wheel, however, got screwed up and that caused the repeated flashes. It needed to be seated properly for the island to stay in one time/place. Bens ultimate motivation is still unknown but he continues to lie and manipulate as skillfully as ever. Despite what he wanted Locke to think about the consequences of moving the island he knew that he could and even would return to the island. It simply meant a one-way trip OFF the island and difficulties returning. I believe it was the old lady in LA who told Ben that EVERYONE needed to go back to the island.
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I have to admit I'm pretty confused by Faraday's mom (assuming she is his mom). Anyone have any good theories?
No ideas really. What I find curious is that Christian is actually Jacob, or at least that Jacob is appearing in the form of Christian.
__________________ Old School: It ain't what you play - it's how you play it.
"Other than the matter of me doing a good deal of extemperaneous creation in play sessions, I am not a paricularly notable Game Master " E.G.G.
Just got the episode online. I thought it was good. Charlotte's "C.S. Lewis" allusion was made clear to me (the island as Narnia, told by her mom she imagined it), but alas, poor Charlotte! This show has an unfortunate dearth of redheads!
As for Farraday's mom, I still think she's the Other with the rifle who took Farrady to the nuke, and who looked familiar to him.
Favorite moments: Christian/the Island saying to Locke: "when has trusting Ben ever done you a bit of good." One day I hope to have a clearer picture of just how he got the power he did.
The French guy's arm being ripped off by the smoke monster. Yikes!
Did we know that Danielle had killed her crewmates before, and have I just forgotten it? I thought her relationship to her husband was very sweet till the monster attack.
We've still got at least one layer of metaplot backwards to go. We now have a good idea who the Dharma initiative is, and how they were formed (at least I think so), but in order for that to happen, we need to know who the "original" others are. My guess: They came on the Black Rock.
__________________ "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place."
Right, which is why his comment about "say hello to my son" was potentially more cryptic than it seemed to the viewers.
It's a very interesting theory that perhaps Jacob is just inhabiting the body of Christian Shepard. I didn't think of that when I first saw that, but that could certainly be possible. After all, this is Lost and anything is possible.
Just got the episode online. I thought it was good. Charlotte's "C.S. Lewis" allusion was made clear to me (the island as Narnia, told by her mom she imagined it), but alas, poor Charlotte! This show has an unfortunate dearth of redheads!
QFT
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Originally Posted by Remus Lupin
As for Farraday's mom, I still think she's the Other with the rifle who took Farrady to the nuke, and who looked familiar to him.
Interesting posit; I like it.
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Originally Posted by Remus Lupin
Did we know that Danielle had killed her crewmates before, and have I just forgotten it? I thought her relationship to her husband was very sweet till the monster attack.
Yes. Season 1 I think, Danielle mentioned that she had to kill them when they got sick, but never mentioned what the sickness was (whether it was the show's intention or not, I had figured it was related to the "quarantine" sign on the inside of the hatch, even though that was probably a hoax/part of the Hatch experiment).
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Originally Posted by Remus Lupin
We've still got at least one layer of metaplot backwards to go. We now have a good idea who the Dharma initiative is, and how they were formed (at least I think so), but in order for that to happen, we need to know who the "original" others are. My guess: They came on the Black Rock.
Assuming the time jumps haven't stopped yet (ie, if they don't stop until the oceanic 6 are back, as opposed to now with Locke's realigning the wheel), I was thinking maybe the time jumpers cause the Black Rock landing - physical stuff moves with them it they're using them, and it could explain why the Black Rock was so far inland (ie, time jumpers appear out on ocean (perhaps paddling again), "rescued" by slaver ship, time jump again, taking boat onto island).
Of course, most time jumps involve no changing in relative location... except the one jump that leads to Jin rejoining Sawyer and co. Ie Jin was near the beach/temple when Rousseau was about to start shooting him, but then flash, he's with the rest. Since every other jump has moved all the time jumpers to the same time, when Jin was in 88, so were the rest, so they would have been nearby.
I seem to recall we're supposed to get more info on (the actual ballooning) Henry Gale this season, so I suspect the time jumping hasn't stopped just yet.
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