That being said, here are some of the things I'm looking to find answers to:
1) How are the time jumps affecting Cindy (the 815 flight attendant turned Other), the kids, and the other Tailies taken off the beach? They've been on the island the same amount of time as the Losties, so my initial guess is that they, too, should be bouncing through time...unless the Others have some special protection against jumps (the temple?). And where are Rose and Bernard?
2) When are the Losties going to stop giving Ben information? I wanted to reach through the screen and slap Desmond for answering Ben's question with: "You're here to see Faraday's mother, too?"
When I saw Ben's slightly startled reaction, I thought: "OMG! Daniel and Ben never actually met on the island when Widmore's scientists/mercs invaded! They know each other!" Then I thought: "Nah...Ben had detailed files on Charlotte and the other members of the team, thanks to his spy Michael on the boat. Ben shouldn't be surprised." But THEN I remembered Desmond going to Oxford and them having no records of a Daniel Faraday going there and thought: "Hmm...maybe he's using an alias, and Daniel Faraday isn't his real name!"
3) After a while, the time jumps started to annoy me. It almost seemed like the writers were trying to play "Guess what year we're in now!" with the audience, building towards a payoff moment in each time period ("Whoa! The hatch is back! Oops, now it's gone! The Nigerian plane just flew overhead! Rousseau's scientific expedition's arrived!", etc.). Now, though, I'm wondering if there's a deeper plan here. Most of the time flashes are to important times/events on the island. Does something need to be "fixed" to help stabilize things, maybe?
__________________ "I have filth fever...." "I have slimy doom...." "I have Great Red Ringwyrm!!!"
Last edited by Demmero; 19th February 2009 at 09:24 PM..
Reason: Fixed spelling on Faraday's name
Of course, most time jumps involve no changing in relative location... except the one jump that leads to Jin rejoining Sawyer and co. Ie Jin was near the beach/temple when Rousseau was about to start shooting him, but then flash, he's with the rest. Since every other jump has moved all the time jumpers to the same time, when Jin was in 88, so were the rest, so they would have been nearby.
It's possible that the Temple is quite close to the Orchid Station--remember Ben using a mirror to signal someone on a mountaintop as he, Locke, and Hurley got close to the Orchid at the end of last season? And we know that the remaining Others had taken refuge in the Temple by then.
So Jin and the Sawyer party might've been in close proximity when that last time jump occured.
__________________ "I have filth fever...." "I have slimy doom...." "I have Great Red Ringwyrm!!!"
Man, I would've loved to have seen Ben get beaten up. Love that line we got out of him.
"What's going to happen to the other people on this plane?"
"Who cares?"
Tell me I'm not the only one who thought Locke's letter was going to read:
"Don't get on the plane with Ben!"
or something like that.
I thought it would say something about preventing Ben from getting back to the island.
Anyone else think that the gentlemen who gave Jack his condolences at the airport is going to be on the island?
I'm guessing Ben turned in Sayid (fairly certain he was in custody - matching the original flight) and manipulated Kate and Hurley to get them on the plane. He such an evil manipulative SOB. Loved Hurley buying all those seats on the flight. Is the guitar supposed to be Charlie's?
__________________ Certainty of death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for!
Last edited by Elodan; 19th February 2009 at 05:14 PM..
Reason: grammar
When Ben "moved" the island, did the island move in physical location or did it "move through time" or both? At the end of the last season, I assumed that it moved location within in the same time frame. Of course, since they introduced time travel in this season, I thought "Well the island is technically still there, but is constantly moving through time." The problem with this is, the Losties are the only ones moving through time, their surroundings are not moving with them, they are changing because they are moving through time, so I can't see how the island is moving through time.
I guess this last episode did clear it up. Eloise Hawking did mention that the island moves physically and they can predict where it might be at certain points in time (in the future).
Second, who is that butcher lady that was holding Locke's corpse for Ben? Ben said something like, "Keep him safe or everything we are about to do won't matter."
Lastly... Didn't Daniel Faraday state that they aren't able to manipulate or change things that already happened? This is why he was able to give a message to Desmond. Which I don't quite understand. Why was Daniel Faraday able to deliver Desmond a message, but no one else was able to (according to Daniel that is)?
And as a follow up to that, why didn't future Danielle Rossueo recognize Jin, since they obviously met in the past?
__________________ It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it -Upton Sinclair
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand. -Albert Einstein
Alignment is what you are when no one is watching. -Yakoska, fellow D&D player.
Man, I would've loved to have seen Ben get beaten up. Love that line we got out of him.
"What's going to happen to the other people on this plane?"
"Who cares?"
And how about his response when Jack asks him how he can read right before they re-enact the crash?
"My mother taught me."
Um, Ben--your mother died giving birth to you. Even his snappy one-liners are loaded with lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felon
Tell me I'm not the only one who thought Locke's letter was going to read:
"Don't get on the plane with Ben!"
or something like that.
I'm pretty sure Mrs. Hawking called the letter Locke's "suicide note." My first thought upon learning its contents ("I wish you had believed me") was that it really wasn't much of a suicide note and not the least bit clear. If a cop had found the note near Locke's body, I'd think Jack would've gotten a police visit for some follow-up questions.
However...the writing on the enveloped looked neater and more feminine than what I'd expect to see in John Locke's handwriting. And, of course, the letter was unopened. So it seems likely that either someone got it from Locke before his death was reported/discovered or...it's a fake. I'm leaning towards the second. I'm guessing that Ben (or possibly Mrs. Hawkings) wrote it as a way of manipulating Jack (Mr. Fix-It) back to the island to remedy the mistake he'd made of leaving.
__________________ "I have filth fever...." "I have slimy doom...." "I have Great Red Ringwyrm!!!"
Last edited by Demmero; 19th February 2009 at 09:53 PM..
Reason: fixed wording of Locke's note
Second, who is that butcher lady that was holding Locke's corpse for Ben? Ben said something like, "Keep him safe or everything we are about to do won't matter."
I don't believe she's been detailed much beyond being one of Ben's allies off-island.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RigaMortus2
Lastly... Didn't Daniel Faraday state that they aren't able to manipulate or change things that already happened? This is why he was able to give a message to Desmond. Which I don't quite understand. Why was Daniel Faraday able to deliver Desmond a message, but no one else was able to (according to Daniel that is)?
Well, Faraday's not afraid to play loose with the truth, so take what he says with a grain of salt. Assuming that what he said IS true, however, he also said that Desmond is a special individual, in that the rules of time travel don't seem to always apply to him. (And Desmond is Faraday's constant, for whatever that's worth.) And technically, Faraday wasn't trying to manipulate an event in the past: he was trying to use a person in the past to manipulate a present/future event (getting the time jumps to stop).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RigaMortus2
And as a follow up to that, why didn't future Danielle Rossueo recognize Jin, since they obviously met in the past?
Maybe because both Rousseas were "past Rousseaus," and by the rules you can't change the past?
Danielle's place in the "normal" (standard?) timeline is as follows: 1) crashes on the island in 1988; 2) meets Jin and the Losties in 2004; 3) Is killed in early 2005; 4) A bit later in 2005, Ben moves the island and the time jumps start occurring.
Since the time travelling didn't start until after she'd met Jin in 2004, she wouldn't know Jin because she hadn't met him until then (and you can't change the past, allegedly). God, I hope that makes an ounce of sense...and this is precisely the reason I hate time travel so much!
__________________ "I have filth fever...." "I have slimy doom...." "I have Great Red Ringwyrm!!!"
Second, who is that butcher lady that was holding Locke's corpse for Ben? Ben said something like, "Keep him safe or everything we are about to do won't matter."
Lastly... Didn't Daniel Faraday state that they aren't able to manipulate or change things that already happened? This is why he was able to give a message to Desmond. Which I don't quite understand. Why was Daniel Faraday able to deliver Desmond a message, but no one else was able to (according to Daniel that is)?
And as a follow up to that, why didn't future Danielle Rossueo recognize Jin, since they obviously met in the past?
Think back RM to the experiments done on the rats in the maze.
What moved through time, and what didn't?
That tells you a lot about the more general time movements in relation to the island, and their neurological effects, as well as their perceptual effects.
Personally I loved the particularly apparent religious symbolism of this episode.
Of course the show is chocked full of religious symbolism, but I've seen some of these images and ideas coming for a long time.
John - 316 (3:16), the Doubting Thomas, the body of the Father who has been improperly prepared for burial and therefore cannot rest, the Substitute Savior (JL, Locke - the Locke to the Keys of the Kingdom, he must be "Un-locked" for the island to work properly), and I really liked the allusion Ben made to Jack about Thomas saying, "let us go to die with him."
This was an obvious reference to Jack who had failed to stand beside Locke and therefore had misunderstood his role. Jack never got that Ben was talking to him. (Ben is Judas by the way, serving as both the manipulative SOB seeking his own self-interests, and the one seeking to redeem himself by pushing others to fulfill their own destines.) Jack never gets what others are saying to him, he is as slow as molasses. He is intelligent but his intelligence constantly interferes with his ability to understand anything going on around him. Then again Ben has the same problem in many ways.
Quote:
And how about his response when Jack asks him how he can read right before they re-enact the crash?
"My mother taught me."
Um, Ben--your mother died giving birth to you. Even his snappy one-liners are loaded with lies.
Indeed, he is the Father of Lies.
I also very much liked Foucault's Pendulum as the method of "tracking the island" both through time and space. The pendulum, along with the calculations, could track the island even when it was "off the Wheel" and adrift, before Locke made the course correction and regained some control of the Wheel. Meaning the island is a Ship of the Soul, as well as a Ship of Time, but what is interesting to me is the fact that the Wheel must have existed long before the Dharma Initiative or anyone introduced thus far. Or the pendulum would not be able to be aligned like a compass to the positional course set by the island. in a way the pendulum is the compass meaning the island is naturally set to the course of the surrounding Earth, and yet distinct enough to be traceable by the curvature movement of the tilt of it.
I suspect that the guitar is indeed Charlie's (they need to recreate prior conditions, and they've already lost several key players and what those players represent) and that several resurrections will occur as the show continues, though not necessarily in the anticipated manner.
Quote:
Anyone else think that the gentlemen who gave Jack his condolences at the airport is going to be on the island?
He will be, as will some others. They need resurrectional substitutes, remember that is what is going on at this point, as well as the time shifts.
I also found it extremely interesting that Locke hangs himself, i.e. Judas-style in order to make his "sacrifice for the Others." (Notice the irony on the twist on the idea of "who are the Others?" - "Why, the Others are my people too.") And I'm not sure because I had left the room for a moment but when I came back I think Ben was kneeling below him begging him to hang himself. If that was indeed Ben and true then how ironic. I had originally though Locke would get someone to kill him, maybe James or Jack, but if Ben convinced him to commit suicide then he talked Locke into acting as substitute and surrogate not only for Jack and the others, but also for Judas himself (in the guise of Ben). But consider this as well, "not a bone will be broken." Yet another clever prophetic plot twist on the compound fracture at the Well of Time.
Now if Desmond is indeed like Saint Paul then he and Penny and their child may very well shipwreck there in the near future. Or Desmond may simply be "cast overboard" to save the others, but i suspect they will all hit the beaches eventually. And I also liked very much that Lapidus was the pilot. If Desmond can convert Ben and turn him away form trying to kill Widmore's daughter as vengeance for his own stolen daughter's murder then Ben will also be saved. But we'll see.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lost is like church for television. It may very well be the best show in the history of television. Thoroughly enjoyable.
Though Battlestar Galactica and Heroes are awfully good too, and also chocked full of interesting religious and metaphysical symbolism.
I'm looking forwards to what happens to Aaron.
I'm also glad to see them all reconverging on the island.
Lastly... Didn't Daniel Faraday state that they aren't able to manipulate or change things that already happened? This is why he was able to give a message to Desmond. Which I don't quite understand. Why was Daniel Faraday able to deliver Desmond a message, but no one else was able to (according to Daniel that is)?
Faraday didn't want slap-happy impulsive hillbilly Sawyer messing with Desmond in the past(would you?). He had his own plans for him.
Just caught it and liked it. One of the few episodes that doesn't bounce back between the Island and "Home," and I liked the variation.
It seems to me that, once Locke turned the wheel, the remaining islanders stopped moving in time and became stuck in the era some time after Dharma arrived but before wheel station was built, which is why we see both Daniel and Jin in Dharma uniforms (how they infiltrated it though is an interesting question).
Open questions: What happened to Aaron? Why would Saiyd be being taken in cuffs to Guam?!? If you were a flight attendant, and saw the exchange between Ben, Hurley, and Jack, would you ever have let that flight off the ground? If you were Lapidas, why not turn the plane right around? And will Lapidas be with them on the island (I think the answer is pretty obviously "yes").
I think it's being implied that the plane didn't crash, but didn't we see a water bottle from that plane somewhere just a few episodes ago?
__________________ "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place."
Someone above mentioned that he suspects that Ben manipulated Kate and Hurley to get on the plane. Yes, he did Kate, but I don't think he did Hurley. Ben was surprised to see Hurley there.
Charlie told Hurley where and when to go. And to bring along the guitar.
There is now a second line that ranks near the top as far as "Best Lost One Liners"
The best is: "Dude, you have some Arnst on you."
Now taking second place is: " We're not going to Guam, are we?"
I often like these other-side-of-the-coin POVs but this one seemed to have only Locke's true death as the point. I think they could have squeezed a bit more into this one. Not bad, though, for all that, IMO.
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