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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:51 AM
    As a player of a Forge Priest, I failed two last session. It happens and it happens pretty frequently. It's not like clerics are proficient in Con saves and a 14 Con means that I fail any concentration check at least 40% of the time. And, watching the other PC's in our games, I've noticed that our wizard types (whether sorc or wizard) tend to be pretty blaster heavy, so, concentration...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:45 AM
    What do you base that on? That most people don't finish the AP's, I mean. Personal experience or something else? Because, for us, we do finish off the AP's that we start, by and large. We did Ravenloft (although the campaign crashed because of Real Life stuff getting in the way just at the end of it :( ), we're doing the Giants one right now and it's going pretty swimmingly. And, we've done...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Saturday, 19th May, 2018, 07:35 AM
    Anyone who plays 5e and then appeals to rules as written has failed to actually read the manual. It's pretty clearly stated that the DM is in charge here. IOW, this is a player problem, not a problem with the books. OTOH, we can only hope that you're right and world building dies off. :D (I kid, I kid. :D)
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Saturday, 19th May, 2018, 07:28 AM
    Let's also not forget that much of the movie is told from Thanos' perspective. So, of course he's not going to call himself "mad". To him, he's perfectly rational and his solution is also perfectly rational.
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Saturday, 19th May, 2018, 02:34 AM
    And yet, and yet, despite these inconsistencies, those TV shows remain incredibly popular and people keep watching them. IOW, other than a small handful of folks, no one actually cares. It's inconsistent? So what? Most folks couldn't give a rat's petoot.
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Saturday, 19th May, 2018, 02:20 AM
    But that hardly makes him rational. Do audiences really need someone to point at Thanos and exclaim, "You are mad, mad I say!"? Do they really need to spell it out that Thanos is crazier than a poop house rat? I mean, the whole plan is irrational, and, even the justifications for it are the flimsy rationalizations of someone whose grasp on reality is tenuous at best. I mean, follow the...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 18th May, 2018, 05:27 PM
    Note: This thread has some amazing people and some excellent game theory discussion. Party on, dudes.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 18th May, 2018, 01:28 PM
    Ah, I see (said the blind man). My apologies. Oh, I meant that in unenforced or "flaws/troubles optional" systems, I often see players attempt to marginalize all potential weaknesses or ignore any flaws. So the roleplaying of flaws tends to be negligible and the "roleplayed" characters tend to be flat. One possible hypothesis may be rooted the system goals, rewards system, and incentives....
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 18th May, 2018, 10:08 AM
    I don't know why you are so fixated on endgame power levels when I explicitly said that is not typically what most people IME have in mind when criticizing level gating of powers. I have not met a player who wanted their character to cast Wish right out of the gate. I would say that the players generally want moderate levels of competency such that they have sufficient tools to sufficiently play...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 18th May, 2018, 09:36 AM
    I'm already well familiar with Fate, Imaro, so there is no need to lecture me on it. Maxperson and Hawkeye clarified your reading. IME with those systems, "What flaws?"
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Thursday, 17th May, 2018, 02:27 PM
    Thank you and Maxperson for your own readings. That helps. Though I understand your intent, at least presumably, I do take some issue with the bold, namely that it somewhat contradicts the rest of your statements. System and mechanics will inherently place limitations on how a player can play such that the idea that one system permits players to play their character "however they want" while...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Thursday, 17th May, 2018, 02:01 PM
    That is true enough, but my understanding of this hypothetical person in this scenario is that the reason that Fate rubs them the wrong way is because of how those troubles/compels run counter to the experiences they want for their character. But again that seems counterintuitive to how Fate works given how troubles are self-selected by the player for their character. In other words, we may ask,...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Thursday, 17th May, 2018, 12:38 PM
    I can't give you particular decisions, but I can give you tendencies. I enjoy elves as "fey" or "fey-kin." And also gnomes would fall in this category as well. I prefer having "half-orcs" as not half-anything but simply another variety of orc. I occasionally have the "half-human" assumption stemming from human racism explaining how orcs could be civilized. I like having halflings not...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Thursday, 17th May, 2018, 09:45 AM
    I do mostly agree with your summation. My point of contention is how the Troubles/Compels are being characterized as hurdles for play. Troubles are self-selected to engender the play experiences the player wants for their character. So it seems unintuitive for how Fate works to say that Troubles are preventing a player from playing their character as they envision them. Why should a player be...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 16th May, 2018, 09:02 PM
    Not sure if I agree here. If you are having these sort of compels in Fate, then it's because you as a player have selected these troubles as things you want to experience for your character. Plus, you have Fate points that allow you to resist these compels. But Fate wants to create interesting stories and not stories where everyone knows everything, makes every dramatically appropriate response,...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 16th May, 2018, 03:44 PM
    My mind raced to how this would be done in Fate. There are multiple subsystems and rule variations available in Fate, but I could see that "Webslingers" may be its own aspect as part of a powers package (see Venture City), but with "All Out of Web" as a trouble, such that the GM could potentially compel the character to be "out" of webslinging fluid or needing to refill in order to heighten the...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 16th May, 2018, 03:40 PM
    LotR also more accurately likely has a magical fatigue system (or even a magical skills one) rather than a Vancian spells per day one, so I'm not sure if this satirical comparison is apt. If one sought to simulate magic in Middle Earth, D&D's magic system would probably be one of the last systems I would consider. That said, the issue of "blowing his load" likely depends on the cognitive...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 16th May, 2018, 11:28 AM
    It's not as if "cross-class balance" is even a concern in Fate anyway. I tend to agree here, and this is a concern that fellow players at my table have raised. It's entailed in "how often do I get to be cool?" That, and how leveling systems tend to gate when players can actually play their character concept. But there are systems out there that permit more out-of-the-box playing of player...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Wednesday, 16th May, 2018, 08:07 AM
    Based on what?
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Tuesday, 15th May, 2018, 08:13 PM
    If you are just going to unnecessarily insult me, Jeremy, and condescend to me about your 30+ years of gaming experiences, then it's clear that you only plan on offering the east wind for wisdom. I don't know who lobbed that cornfield up your rear, but you should have dislodged them before you decided to post your reply. But there are many other ways you could have gone about your reply before...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Tuesday, 15th May, 2018, 03:12 PM
    For my own sake following here, how does this current discussion on encounter design/balance connect with the overarching discussion of what worldbuilding is for? And though some of you are indeed doing this, it may also be helpful to look more broadly at how other game systems (other than iterations of D&D) have designed their encounter/day assumptions for characters.
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 11:36 PM
    Even so, you can still learn tools as a downtime activity. Which, effectively, is the same as learning skills.
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 11:33 PM
    Using your .4% idea, out of a thousand worlds, 4 have Texas vanishing. Since the MCU posits a pretty full universe with lots and lots of inhabited worlds, then this sort of rare grouping will happen and the consequences become that much worse. That's the funny thing about randomness. The more times you spin the wheel, the weirder the results you start to get.
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  • Raunalyn's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 06:42 PM
    Margot Kidder has died... https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/superman-actress-margot-kidder-dead-age-69-montana-170231225.html
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 12:25 PM
    Apart from Harry.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 12:08 PM
    I would wait, however, for the upcoming new edition of Savage Worlds. I will likewise voice my support for Fate Accelerated. There are a lot of easy-to-turn knobs that one can turn to increase or decrease its complexity. Wearing the Cape has probably been one of the most strongly recommended Fate supers books that I have encountered. I suppose that I am thankful then that I have...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 09:47 AM
    Advantage/Disadvantage is simple and elegant, but I find that its ubiquity in 5E becoming increasingly cumbersome and unimaginative.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 09:31 AM
    People "powergame" backgrounds in 5E as well in order to pick up certain skills (e.g., Perception), perks, and tool proficiencies (e.g., thieves' tools). This does seem a bit too specific, but it remains to be seen how many skills we will end up with. Knowledge/Lore skills are always tricky due to the tightrope they have to walk between breadth and depth. My own concern, however, is with...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 09:18 AM
    Often in this thread I have found myself agreeing with you, but I don't think this is one of those times. Overall, people are not afraid of game analysis; they are afraid of being accused of "badwrongfun" or having a game style that the game theory deems "inferior." I am not opposed to descriptive game theory, but the problem is that a lot of the Ron Edwards/Forge/GNS discussion came across as...
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  • Manbearcat's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 05:17 AM
    I was thinking about this thread as I was introspecting upon something related to my own play priorities: "What is the difference between a game with a baked-in premise (say Dogs in the Vineyard or My Life With Master) vs a fully GM-authored premise and attendant game?" For myself, as GM, I'd say its the following: 1 - Playing a game with a baked-in premise invariably comes with some...
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  • Manbearcat's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 04:32 AM
    I agree that it is pretty hard (I'll go with extremely) for the same episode of RPGing to serve both of those priorities. Story Now and Story Before/Sim priorities + play principles and game infrastructure (the latter two serving the first) push in different (perhaps not opposite in all ways...but certainly different) directions. I'm going to extend this with another example. Let me know...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Monday, 14th May, 2018, 04:29 AM
    But, that's the thing about randomness. Sure, you might get an even distribution, but, there's no guarantee of that. It's equally possible that you get group in random choices, meaning that you might wind up wiping out everyone with any medical training, for example, simply through random chance. It really is a mad idea.
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Sunday, 13th May, 2018, 04:27 AM
    Realistically, for full casters, there's no feat that will come even close to bumping your casting stat. No feat will give you the bonuses to your save DC, PLUS an extra spell to use. At 8th level, you're getting up to a 4th level spell known per day. Considering, by that point, you only know 2 (or can ready 2 if you're a cleric or druid), that's a HUGE bump in versatility. No feat will come...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Saturday, 12th May, 2018, 02:00 PM
    Thereís an even nastier problem as well. With half the population gone, you just massively cut the gene pool, resulting in all sorts of nasty stuff down the line. And when we cut half the populations, where is the cutoff line? Technological races? How advanced? After all, humans conquered the planet with stone axes. And probably did some spectacularly bad things to the ecosphere. So is...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Saturday, 12th May, 2018, 01:55 PM
    Going back to the stone ages, my uni gaming club had a con every year. It was only a few hundred. AFAIK itís still going. But yeah, the overwhelming majority of cons are under the 1k mark.
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Saturday, 12th May, 2018, 04:28 AM
    Yeah, this was fun, but, now it's time to let this one die. I've made my points, you can agree or disagree as you like. To me, world building and world builders have taken over the hobby to the degree that it has driven me largely out of it. I almost never buy any products anymore because most of the products are geared almost entirely for world builders. I'm quite happy in our group...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 10:42 PM
    Funny how all your definition jokes keep requiring the change of definitions of known words. I've posted the definition of world building, a few times now, and you've still insisted on the notion that your definition is the only possible one. Does make winning a discussion easier when you think that you can control what words mean. ------- Bedrockgames - what I would like to see is a...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 10:33 PM
    But, in my mind, none of that is world building. That's just basic adventure design because all of that material is going to be used in the adventure. Totally agree that this is necessary and a good use of DM prep time. Note what you leave out though. No mention of the history of the area. What happened here ten years ago? Fifty? A hundred? Who, other than world builders, cares? It's...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 10:25 PM
    Because, typically, a narrated daily log with random encounters is pretty much all that connective bits amounts to. If it was actually important, you'd take the time to actually make an adventure about it (see, for example, the Paizo remake of Isle of Dread where they actually spend three complete adventures just getting to the village on the island). But, for the most part, it's utterly...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 10:09 PM
    I'd posit that the reason that people react so strongly to "world building is bad" is that they likely fall pretty heavily somewhere on the list I gave a few pages back and they can't handle the idea that their DMing isn't the perfect approach to gaming.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 06:27 PM
    Then I will leave that to Hussar to clarify, as I can only speak for my own reading of the situation in the context of the thread. But I do hope that you better understand the contextualization of my own response to you.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 05:59 PM
    Let's retrace our steps a bit for contextualization because this entire line of thinking is becoming absurd, and I have little desire to perpetuate that absurdity. I disagreed with Bedrockgames's assertion and kinda spiteful characterization that Hussar was expressing his opinion "as an absolute" and that "Hussar has the answer for everyone." This runs counter, IME, to how I see Hussar expressing...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 04:51 PM
    Your reading of his statement does not exclude the fact that he has done both in the thread.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 04:34 PM
    In general, yes, I believe that he is expressing his own preferences here, but that these preferences also stem from his observations about the problems with how worldbuilding is frequently expressed in the hobby. Here, I read "how I think that world building is bad" along the lines of "why/how I think that worldbuilding can be problematic." His list entails pitfalls, red flags, and a hierarchy...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 04:20 PM
    However, we are not discussing whether an orange is an apple or an apple is an orange. 'Apples' and 'oranges' are physical objects that have physical properties that we can ascertain. We are discussing what constitutes the definition for an abstract concept that pertains to fiction-making: e.g., "Mary Sue," "Anti-hero," "Second World," etc. Yes, and you and you alone misread what he quoted to...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 03:24 PM
    One would certainly hope that you would know that before you chose to wade into it. There are multiple divergent conversations at play here though. On this point, however, I think that Hussar is clearly discussing his own preferences that he would like expressed in published materials. As to the rest of the conversations? That might be a bit much to summarize. I would say that the argument...
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  • Raunalyn's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 02:35 PM
    I will ready an action to counter your readied action whenever you're ready to ready your readied action...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 02:11 PM
    I also disagree with this assertion, and I believe that Imaro may have made a similar comment earlier in his summation of topic. Again, I would like to revisit the earlier analogy that I raised. I don't think fundamentally that people are reacting so strongly to "world building is bad" because of the advice, facts, or definitions, but, rather, because they are emotionally feeling that they...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 11:15 AM
    Then this is absolutely hypocritical to expect others to do the same about their own beliefs, because the reality is that people clearly have different "basic facts about what they believe world building means." I hardly think that "some of the definitions being proposed" veer any, if at all, from "how it generally means in the hobby," and it may be your own preconceptions and biases in place...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 06:58 AM
    Just a point about X1 Isle of Dread. One of the major elements of X1 is actually traveling to the island. That's a big part of the adventure. So, of course, you're going to need to detail out getting to the island, which means you need some sort of map (whether it's an actual map or just a timeline of events) in order to get from A to B. That's just basic setting building. But, in Tomb...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 06:51 AM
    Ok, perhaps a point form list of how I think that world building is bad might be a good idea. I. How Worldbuilding is Bad for the DM/Table Worldbuilding takes away from time that could be spent writing the actual adventure. The more time the DM spends detailing Elven Tea Ceremonies, the less time he or she has to write an actual adventure. Some DM's become very, very attached to their...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Friday, 11th May, 2018, 06:26 AM
    And yet, I'm expected in this thread to ignore the accepted definition of world building and use the one presented by Maxperson which is far, far broader than what is typically defined as world building.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Thursday, 10th May, 2018, 09:42 AM
    That's what I'm talking about. He offered a concession. You didn't. You haven't. You continue to dig your heels deep into the underdark regarding your own definition and sense of worldbuilding.
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Thursday, 10th May, 2018, 04:58 AM
    Turned that off years ago. Sorry. Can you please be more specific? If the party goes on an adventure to save the princess, and does so, is that world building or not? And, as far as defining world building as stuff I like vs stuff I don't like, no, that's never been my definition. My definition of world building is any material that is not needed by the plot. Anything that...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Thursday, 10th May, 2018, 04:52 AM
    But, then Bedrockgames, why not actually make that clear? Something like, "If you run open ended, sandbox style campaigns, then world building becomes more necessary"? Instead of, "Well, world building is good" which is what I generally get replied to me over and over again. And, as far as the generally agreed upon definition goes, I suggest Wikipedia, or TV Tropes. Both have excellent...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Thursday, 10th May, 2018, 04:19 AM
    Yes, it does. That's the definition of world building. If you're not explaining things in detail, excruciating or not, you are not engaging in world building. Unless it's tied to the actual adventure that's going on, why would they ever ask this? You actually have players who ask these kinds of questions out of the blue with no connection to the ongoing adventure/campaign? So,...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Thursday, 10th May, 2018, 01:04 AM
    Actually, coming back to Dune for a second, because it makes for a very good example. Take one of the most basic elements of the story - the Stillsuit. Now, we know that a stillsuit recycles your water and lets you survive in the desert. Very important for the plot of the story. But, what does it look like? What color is it? Who makes it? What's it made out of? These are all basic...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Thursday, 10th May, 2018, 12:44 AM
    It's interesting that you mention Dune. Because if you read the original novel - heck even the original Frank Herbert (not his son's stuff), there is surprisingly little world building. Virtually none. It's a very strongly plot based story that's heavy on character. For example, what does a Guildsman look like? I know you're probably thinking of the movies here when you envision it, but,...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Thursday, 10th May, 2018, 12:41 AM
    You keep saying this with the implicit assumption that your definition is the norm when I don't think that is necessarily true, particularly when you don't substantiate it or even acknowledge that the contextual understanding of "used by most people" clearly varies in this thread.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 03:17 PM
    I am self-admittedly at a loss. IME, I have simply found, however, that Ron Edwards, the Forge, and all associated terminology generally engender divisive conversations. These can be, as per Manbearcat's observation, due to differences of core gaming values, but I also think that the terminology itself has accumulated a lot of visceral connotations and negative reactions. (The terms also seem...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 02:54 PM
    Et tu Parmandur?
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 02:47 PM
    I also wish that we could move beyond Edwards and The Forge. Though if this is all we have, then RPG theory is in a sad sorry state.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 02:39 PM
    And clearly people who disagree with you don't as they are just "projecting" and going on inexperience, paint chips, and bad faith. Furthermore, if you are going to quote my comment, I would certainly appreciate if you showed signs of reading it. I did clarify that this was not all worldbuilding but "excess worldbuilding." I would prefer if you would spend less time accusing others of projecting...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 12:47 PM
    Blackmoor 9 City of Brass 6 City State of the Invincible Overlord 10 Free City of Greyhawk 9 Sharn 6 Sigil 2
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 12:45 PM
    I wish these sort of conversations could move beyond Ron Edwards and his terminology.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 12:11 PM
    Sure, but repeating that assertion that I disagree with isn't going to make me agree with it. I doubt, however, that further conversation on this point will bear ripe fruit. I would say that is also a stumbling block: a few people make an assertion for "what it generally means in the hobby" when it runs counter to the experience or understanding of others. Attempting to steamroll others by...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 09:22 AM
    Of course Lanefan. But, again, I've always said that you need setting. That's fine. What wouldn't be needed is the last five hundred years of history of the city they were in. Or the last five thousand. Which is where world building kicks in. But, again, my point is that world building is distinct from plot and character. And, frankly, it's distinct from setting as well. It's when...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Wednesday, 9th May, 2018, 06:13 AM
    What is excluded then? You've included character creation, setting creation, adventure creation and probably a few other bits and bobs. What else is there? You've have a character, you have an adventure, you have a setting. That's the sum total of the entire game. What, in your view, is part of an RPG that isn't included in your definition of world building? it would be very helpful if you...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Tuesday, 8th May, 2018, 06:34 PM
    His statement "broad does not mean meaningless" is a bad argument when that is not what I said, but I'm so glad that you failed to pick up on that, Bedrockgames. I think the onus is on you to actually read.
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Tuesday, 8th May, 2018, 01:55 PM
    Baldur's Gate 6 Blackmoor 11 City of Brass 8 City State of the Invincible Overlord 9 Free City of Greyhawk 9 Lankhmar 4 Sharn 8 Sigil 8
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Tuesday, 8th May, 2018, 01:53 PM
    Your second sentence fails to provide convincing support in favor for your first sentence as it does little to dissuade that your definition is not superfluous, redundant, and synonymous to the process of creative writing or fiction-making. :erm: So far your response to nearly everything has been "that's worldbuilding too," and I don't think that is a mischaracterized paraphrase of your most...
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Tuesday, 8th May, 2018, 12:08 PM
    "Setting Tourism" would more likely be a frequent symptom of excess. The problem is that your definition of 'worldbuilding' makes the term so broad that the term is simultaneously rendered virtually meaningless. It reminds me of Schopenhauer's criticism of pantheism: "to call the world 'God' is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Tuesday, 8th May, 2018, 11:05 AM
    See, that's the thing though. It doesn't need to be. Back in the day, you had the town and you had the dungeon. That was it. There was no real attempt to create a functional world (which is the goal of world building) and it wasn't even remotely expected that you would. IOW, you certainly don't need a world to run a campaign. Particularly if you run episodic campaigns. It's just...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Tuesday, 8th May, 2018, 04:31 AM
    But, here's the point. I posted a quote from a Dungeon module above about how, thousands of years ago, the Olman people were more advanced than they are now. Ok, fair enough. We can agree (I think) that that's world building. And it has zero to do with the actual adventure and virtually no way to actually come up at the table unless the DM specifically makes a point to do so. So much of...
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  • Manbearcat's Avatar
    Tuesday, 8th May, 2018, 04:29 AM
    Alright, so I haven't posted in almost 3 months. I'm pretty much in my death throes of posting thoughts on TTRPGs. But I'm going to flail out a response here before rigamortis fully sets in. There are so many reasons why these conversations never bear out any fruit on ENWorld, but a big portion has to do with play priorities and the facts that: a) Not all play priorities play nice with...
    2644 replies | 65184 view(s)
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Monday, 7th May, 2018, 11:37 PM
    THANK YOU! Finally, after 1600+ posts in the thread, you folks finally have given me a term I can use without having to explain my point of view repeatedly, time after time, because you folks insist on trying to make it sound like I'm saying something I'm not. Excessive World Building is the acceptable term? If I use Excessive World Building every time I post in this thread, does that mean...
    1900 replies | 63642 view(s)
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Monday, 7th May, 2018, 07:46 AM
    See, that's the point I keep trying to make though and this is why we keep talking past each other. An Otyugh is a trash monster isn't world building IMO. It's simply stating what the thing is. Obviously you need that much. That's just basic setting stuff that every story must have. World building would be going beyond that. A several page treatise on the life cycle of an Otyugh such as...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Sunday, 6th May, 2018, 11:45 PM
    Yes, but, even empathize? With Vader at the end of ESB? We know virtually nothing about him other than he's a murdering psychopath who happens to share DNA with Luke Skywalker. Even his motivations are clearly self serving - "Join me and together we will rule the galaxy" Mwahahahaha! This is the same guy that just spent a good chunk of the movie torturing Han Solo for fun "they didn't ask...
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Sunday, 6th May, 2018, 11:42 PM
    Thanks for that second link Maxperson. Will definitely check that out. The first one, not so much since I don't do modern. But this point, Means that 99% of everything WotC or TSR writes is not getting used at any given table. Isn't that a huge waste of time? For me, this is thre reason that I rarely buy WotC books. Other than core, all I've bought of 5e is Xanathar's, and even...
    1900 replies | 63642 view(s)
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Sunday, 6th May, 2018, 01:20 PM
    Sorry, I was just using your point as a springboard for my own. It's fantastic that you've gotten so much use out of a single product. Great. I guess that my basic point is that usability, AFAIC, trumps all other considerations. It doesn't matter how inspiring, or how wonderfully written a supplement is to me. If I then have to spend hours taking that material and then writing up all the...
    1900 replies | 63642 view(s)
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Sunday, 6th May, 2018, 04:37 AM
    Look, I have a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. I am running an urban campaign soon. So, I went over to DM's Guild to find some good Thieves Guild material to help with prep. Best one I've found so far is Ebonclad. Looks great, right, a 200 (ish) page supplement on Thieves. Fantastic. Right up my alley. Now, here's the writeup of the product: So, of a 200 ish page...
    1900 replies | 63642 view(s)
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Sunday, 6th May, 2018, 04:24 AM
    Considering my very strong dislike for Planescape, no, I haven't looked at it. Sorry. I see Planescape as probably one of the biggest examples of "Material to Read rather than Play". Endless setting stuff, much of which you can't even adventure in (how, exactly, does one adventure in the Elemental Plane of Fire? The Blood War is pretty much unstoppable and pointless. Oh, you think Elminister...
    1900 replies | 63642 view(s)
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  • Hussar's Avatar
    Saturday, 5th May, 2018, 03:42 PM
    Who sympathizes with Darth Vader? Vader was a monster by the end of Empire. He was not sympathetic at all. :uhoh: I might see it by the end of Jedi, when Vader is somewhat redeemed, but, at the end of ESB? He's a murdering psychopath with zero redeeming qualities.
    108 replies | 2972 view(s)
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Saturday, 5th May, 2018, 02:47 PM
    I guess that adventures never have really registered for me in this conversation since players and GMs alike are conscientiously surrendering part of their agency when playing adventures so adventures strike me as being beside everyone's point.
    2644 replies | 65184 view(s)
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Saturday, 5th May, 2018, 02:45 PM
    From what I recall, Steve Kenson's Psychic Handbook was part of the basis for Blue Rose as written by Steve Kenson (and Jeremy Crawford)!
    88 replies | 2867 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 4th May, 2018, 07:12 PM
    "This rhetorical tactic" implies malicious intent, and once again you are playing the blame game. Speaking of bad faith rhetorical tactics... Don't group me into a camp for the sake of your reductionist blanket statements here. I have not declared any allegiance here. I am no "other side." I have raised my views on several points, but not enough to say that I belong to any "camp" or train of...
    2644 replies | 65184 view(s)
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 4th May, 2018, 05:39 PM
    You are certainly welcome to disagree. I will take your word for it regarding "many of the games/adventures/campaigns/etc. of the 90's" since my RP days began with the release of 3rd edition D&D. Then it's very well possible that you don't know what is. If you are unable to communicate your ideas clearly or they are routinely understood as communicating something else, then maybe there is...
    2644 replies | 65184 view(s)
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 4th May, 2018, 03:11 PM
    Even as an observer to this conversation, I tend to disagree with this assessment. Under that sort of definition, then yes it would be a definition of agency tantamount to "playing the game." And with my growing interest in games such as Fate and Dungeon World, the pre-bold seems like a more applicable and meaningful sense of player agency than the bold.
    2644 replies | 65184 view(s)
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Friday, 4th May, 2018, 01:42 PM
    I have wondered whether it would be too much if the Pact of the Tome had higher level invocation option that gave them an extra pact slot.
    21 replies | 956 view(s)
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Saturday, 12th May, 2018

  • 09:22 PM - AbdulAlhazred mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    On the other thread, when I've suggested this is one thing that worldbuilding is for, there has been a lot of disagreement. Most posters on that thread seem to deny that one function of worldbuilding is to establish stuff for the GM to tell to the players. I think the difficulty isn't in denying that it is to 'establish stuff for the GM to tell to the players.' I think they are objecting to the entire concept of analyzing play from a standpoint of what the people at the table DO. They want to only look at what is going on fictionally. Beyond that they wanted to emphasize the tentative, provisional, and incomplete nature of what was world built in order to reduce its significance to being more of a way to establish general character knowledge, mapping of genre tropes to their instantiation within the given milieu, and as a 'convenience feature' for the GM. This lead, more or less directly, to a rather long drawn out debate between Hussar and others about exactly where 'world building' ended and 'adventure design' (or whatever terms you want to use, don't drag me into that) began. Of course, YOU pretty much relegated adventure design itself to the category of world building back in the start of the other thread ('What is World Building For?'). I assume there was, long ago, a similar debate in this thread. I happen to agree with you that for the purposes of analysis the two activities are closely related, but obviously for someone who wants to kind of pass off world building as a sort of side activity it becomes convenient to draw a stronger line between them. So that might be ANOTHER way in which worldbuilding was 'denied' to be a source of information to dictate to players, because the people who did the denying called it something else! Nevertheless, your central assertion, that material produced by the GM exists for the purpose of telling the players how things are in the game world rather than establishing it by...
  • 11:28 AM - pemerton mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Or else it's because it has no inherent property of good or bad, so calling it bad is wrong. You can dislike it, but it can't be bad. I can like it, but it can't be good.So I take it you think Lanefan is wrong to have said there is a reason in favour of worldbuilding, namely, that otherwise there is a serious risk of a hodge-podge world. I assume you are going to take him to task for confusing "bad GMing" with some objective risk. Or, alternatively, this whole pseuo-moralising attack on Hussar is nonsense. Yes, I think that's it.
  • 11:09 AM - pemerton mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    ...rld provides a foundation for the action of a story." which completely refute his argument that any part of building the world that deals with plot is not worldbuilding.Again, worldbuiding may have the goal of creating context. It doesn't follow that all context is worldubilding. And nor does it follow that all RPGing even has some context. There is no context to B1 other than "Let's earn some XP by exploring a dungeon." The context for S1 (Tomb of Horrors) is similar. The context in B2 is marginally thicker, but only marginally. Likewise S2 (White Plume Mountain), which is - by the way - another single-building adventure. Going back to Tomb of Horrors, contrast S1 with the Return to . . . version, which (I understand by reputation - I've never read it) does engage in a whole lot of worldbuilding, establishing all this backstory to try and make the dungeon actually make sense in the context of a consistent, coherent world. This seems to me to be exactly the sort of distinction Hussar is drawing, between adventure design and worldbuilding. You believe he's stating personal preference and applying these reasons to... himself only as opposed to making a general statement about why he believes world building is bad in general? If so that seems like an interesting way of interpreting his statement, and certainly not how I read it. I don't blame you for your preferences, and I'm sure they've formed as a result of your actual experiences, but I don't think they are universal enough to consider worldbuilding as bad. I just don't think it's all that different from any other tool the DM can use....they can be used effectively, or they can be abused.Let's take it, for the sake of argument, that Hussar's comments are grounded primarily in personal preference grounded in personal experience. Are hawkeyefan's grounded in anything more robust or objective? I doubt it. In other words, the claims worldbuilding is not bad is not grounded more firmly than the claim tha...

Friday, 11th May, 2018

  • 09:53 PM - Maxperson mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    I think your splitting hairs. I don't think so. A good analogy for this would be if Hussar said, "I don't like vehicles, because they're too big. Cars, trucks, semis, and airplanes are just too much. That's why I ride a motorcycle. That's not a vehicle." Pointing out that a motorcycle IS a vehicle, just a smaller one that he does like is not splitting hairs. It's similarly not splitting hairs to point out the fact that he does worldbuild, even if on a smaller scale.
  • 06:27 PM - Aldarc mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Hussar restated his points in the post I quoted, I chose it because it's a clarification of his position in this thread... and it calls into question problems around worldbuilding as a whole not as they pertain to his preferences...Then I will leave that to Hussar to clarify, as I can only speak for my own reading of the situation in the context of the thread. But I do hope that you better understand the contextualization of my own response to you.
  • 06:12 PM - Imaro mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Let's retrace our steps a bit for contextualization because this entire line of thinking is becoming absurd, and I have little desire to perpetuate that absurdity. I disagreed with Bedrockgames's assertion and kinda spiteful characterization that Hussar was expressing his opinion "as an absolute" and that "Hussar has the answer for everyone." This runs counter, IME, to how I see Hussar expressing his viewpoints in the context of the wider conversation. You asked what then we were discussing. And in the context of this entire conversation, one portion of that is Hussar's preferences rooted in and based on his general observations about worldbuilding as an enterprise of RPGs. I am talking about the wider context of his conversation in this thread. You then asked for my reading on a specific passage. My reading of this passage is again tied to my understanding of Hussar's argument in this entire thread, and I do think that his post in question that you quoted is led by those preferences. Hussar restated his points in the post I quoted, I chose it because it's a clarification of his position in this thread... and it calls into question problems around worldbuilding as a whole not as they pertain to his preferences...
  • 05:59 PM - Aldarc mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    But I was asking about that specific passage... Him having done both in the thread means he has made general statements about worldbuilding while you claimed he was only stating preference.Let's retrace our steps a bit for contextualization because this entire line of thinking is becoming absurd, and I have little desire to perpetuate that absurdity. I disagreed with Bedrockgames's assertion and kinda spiteful characterization that Hussar was expressing his opinion "as an absolute" and that "Hussar has the answer for everyone." This runs counter, IME, to how I see Hussar expressing his viewpoints in the context of the wider conversation. You asked what then we were discussing. And in the context of this entire conversation, one portion of that is Hussar's preferences rooted in and based on his general observations about worldbuilding as an enterprise of RPGs. I am talking about the wider context of his conversation in this thread. You then asked for my reading on a specific passage. My reading of this passage is again tied to my understanding of Hussar's argument in this entire thread, and I do think that his post in question that you quoted is led by those preferences. Aldarc, I share a lot of Imaro's sentiments here. I think you and Hussar are trying to have it both ways, on the one hand saying "this is just my opinion and if you object you are reacting because you feel morally judged", on the other hand saying "...
  • 04:20 PM - Aldarc mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    ...finition, instead of "admitting" to a false one, then that's on you. It's no sweat off my back if some faceless person on the internet doesn't have respect for me. :)However, we are not discussing whether an orange is an apple or an apple is an orange. 'Apples' and 'oranges' are physical objects that have physical properties that we can ascertain. We are discussing what constitutes the definition for an abstract concept that pertains to fiction-making: e.g., "Mary Sue," "Anti-hero," "Second World," etc. LOL He posted this example as a definition of his worldbuilding. "Worldbuilding is the process of constructing an imaginary world, sometimes associated with a whole fictional universe. ... Developing an imaginary setting with coherent qualities such as a history, geography, and ecology is a key task for many science fiction or fantasy writers"Yes, and you and you alone misread what he quoted to mean "the entire world" and then proceded to gloat in song and dance that you got Hussar to "refute" a point that he never made. "LOL," indeed. But he intentionally left out these portions of the link. "Worldbuilding often involves the creation of maps, a backstory, and people for the world." which lists people and for RPGs would include monsters.Simply pulling monsters from a monster manual, however, would likely not fall within the conventional usage or sense of "worldbuilding." Again, to echo Bedrockgames, I think that this is you splitting hairs. "From a game-design perspective, the goal of worldbuilding is to create the context for a story. Consistency is an important element, since the world provides a foundation for the action of a story." which completely refute his argument that any part of building the world that deals with plot is not worldbuilding. It's says that the freaking goal of worldbuilding in a game is for the story(plot).Did you have a reason for intentionally leaving out the following sentence? "However, J. R. R. Tolkien described the go...
  • 04:07 PM - Imaro mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Want to address this and get some clarity first but I'll get to your other points later... One would certainly hope that you would know that before you chose to wade into it. There are multiple divergent conversations at play here though. On this point, however, I think that Hussar is clearly discussing his own preferences that he would like expressed in published materials. As to the rest of the conversations? That might be a bit much to summarize. So just to be clear, when Hussar posts... Ok, perhaps a point form list of how I think that world building is bad might be a good idea. I. How Worldbuilding is Bad for the DM/Table Worldbuilding takes away from time that could be spent writing the actual adventure. The more time the DM spends detailing Elven Tea Ceremonies, the less time he or she has to write an actual adventure. Some DM's become very, very attached to their creations. To the point where any attempt by the players to change that creation will be met with very stiff resistance. The possibility of the "Tour Des Realms" campaign where the PC's are basically just tourists in the game and are expected to make the appropriate oohing and ahhhing noises at the DM's wonderful creation. The narrowing of possibilities in the game. The...
  • 02:38 PM - Maxperson mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Lol... what a way to dismiss the other side of a conversation... Don't address their responses and counterpoints, just declare their perspective as emotionally driven and use a bad analogy (oh the irony) to characterize their responses as both illogical and ill-infomed. See it's this type of declaration that gets conversations emotionally driven. That seems par for the course. Take a look at him saying that I'm arguing in bad faith for sticking to the definition of worldbuilding, and not accepting Hussar's re-definition of the term to mean the opposite of what the definition Hussar provides says is the goal of worldbuilding in a game.
  • 02:20 PM - Imaro mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    I think you are projecting here or at least exposing your own knee-jerk reaction. I don't think that Hussar is expressing this sentiment, as he is fairly clear about his own viewpoint and perspective on the matter. Then what exactly are we discussing? Hussar clearly knows what is better for his specific game (something that hasn't really been addressed or acknowledged from those against worldbuilding) so that begs the question... what is the conversation supposed to be around if he's asserting this only for himself and his particular game?
  • 02:11 PM - Aldarc mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    ... in the actual advice "you should drink alcohol in moderation" or based on disagreement with basic facts like "alcohol has well-documented negative side-effects" but because their response will invariably be guided by their own emotional knee-jerk reaction of "I enjoy drinking and I am feeling morally judged for drinking alcohol ergo the article must be wrong and drinking is not bad." Nevertheless, most rational people should be able to pick up on how an article entitled "Why Drinking is Bad" is not meant to be a blanket moral judgment against drinking. Though most rational people should be able to understand that, that will not always be the case as people are not entirely rational people. You could replace the word "worldbuilding" with just about any issue and see a similar brand of emotionally-charged pushback that speaks less about the validity of the argument and more about the persecution complex of the respondants. And this is being expressed as an absolute, objective, Hussar has the answer for everyone.I think you are projecting here or at least exposing your own knee-jerk reaction. I don't think that Hussar is expressing this sentiment, as he is fairly clear about his own viewpoint and perspective on the matter. There is no False Equivalence going on with my posts. Your analogy was a false equivalence between situations, Max. Your false equivalence literally was a case of apples and oranges to debating the definition of 'worldbuilding.' If you honestly believe that this wasn't a case of false equivalence or have no intent to sincerely reflect on why that is the case, then I am hard-pressed to see how you have any intent whatsoever to engage in this conversation with any shred of good faith or self-respect. Hussar provided definitions that fail to back him up. More than one of them in fact. His claim that worldbuilding involves building the world, EXCEPT when it pertains to the plot(Then it's magically not worldbuilding) is absurd and doesn't ...
  • 01:40 PM - Maxperson mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Cut it out with the false equivalence, Max. We are discussing of abstract ideas and not the classification of fruits. There is no False Equivalence going on with my posts. "New definition" implies the establishment of an "old definition," yet the argument transpiring is about establishing what that "old definition" entails. You referring to your opponents' definition as a "new definition" is a pretty sleezy rhetorical way to position your own idiomatic definition as the "old definition" when you have not made a convincing case for that at all yet. Hussar provided definitions that fail to back him up. More than one of them in fact. His claim that worldbuilding involves building the world, EXCEPT when it pertains to the plot(Then it's magically not worldbuilding) is absurd and doesn't mean the definitions even he provided. I reject his selective worldbuilding re-definition in favor of the old ones which involve those things that make up building the world.
  • 01:30 PM - Imaro mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    ...subset of GM's who use worldbuilding and also succumb to this. It's also a weak argument because it's pointing out that using a tool the wrong way is bad not that the tool itself is bad. Some people use knives to unscrew a screw... does that mean knives are bad tools or that this particular application of the knife is bad? The possibility of the "Tour Des Realms" campaign where the PC's are basically just tourists in the game and are expected to make the appropriate oohing and ahhhing noises at the DM's wonderful creation. Eh, some people like exploration campaigns, some people actually enjoy discovering and exploring the GM's creation. If they are having fun why is that a bad thing, and who are you to claim it as such? If anything I would say when this is an issue it's a mismatch of player and GM desires and expectations. You don't like discovery/exploration campaigns, cool... but worldbuilding is necessary for such campaigns So IMO the answer isn't worlduilding is bad... it's Hussar isn't a good fit for a GM/group that enjoys such things. The narrowing of possibilities in the game. The DM is a heavy world builder but the player doesn't want to play one of the pre-approved races. She wants to play something else. The DM nixes the idea, not because the idea is necessarily bad or powergaming or anything like that, but, because it doesn't fit with the DM's preconceptions of the campaign. This could also apply to any number of player concepts. I don't see this as a problem anymore than theme or genre constraints would be a problem. If the player bought into the campaign concept this shouldn't be an issue. If they haven't well that's a communication issue. If I'm running a game in Middle Earth and you agreed to play in a Middle Earth campaign there shouldn't be an issue if I'm not allowing you to play a tieflinf, irregardless of how cool you make it sound or how badly you want it. We'll play D&D eventually but until then you should try to abide by the social contr...
  • 10:12 AM - pemerton mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Yet even then, that "GM narration" has to consist of something. And if the module assumes the PCs "stumble into" the Hidden Shrine, that presupposes a further (unwritten) assumption that the PCs are doing something else that brings them there in the first place such that they can do said stumbling-into....hm?But starting Isle of Dread with "You're sailing from X to Y and then a storm blows up, and beaches you on this lonely island . . ." isn't worldbuilding. (Hussar's post indicates that this isn't the canonical way of starting X1. But it is a possible way, which is enough for my point.) Which is Hussar's point. The Phantom of the Opera happens in Paris, but we don't actually need to build Paris; we just allude to it. The GM can narrate that the PCs are sailing from X to Y without anyone actually having to build X or Y. They are just names in a bit of introductory framing. all of those also exist within the game world at large and that larger game world has information about it that exists outside of the building. What's the larger game world for B1? Moldvay Basic stipulates dungeon-only adventuring. The journey to and from the dungeon happens in imagination, but is not played at the table. Here's the "game world at large" for B1 (it's p 6 of my PDF version): area, Rogahn the Fearless (a fighter of renown) and Zelligar the Unknown (a magic-user of mystery and power) pooled their resources and expertise to construct a home and strong...
  • 04:04 AM - Imaro mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Well, Hussar thinks it bogs down published material in unnecessary stuff that doesn't contribute to play. Doesn't contribute to play for who? If he's only speaking for himself.. Cool, I have no reason to doubt his claim but if he's claiming to speak for others then yes I disagree. Neither Hussar or anyone else can claim to have knowledge of what others use at their table, so unless he's the sole audience for said material its going to be nigh impossible to prove his assertion applies to those in the hobby as a whole. Look, anyone is free to use or discard material as they see fit in their games so the only way it will undermine his goals is if he tries to use material he has no use for... which makes no sense. I think (and he may agree - I can't remember all the posts) that it pushes towards an approach to play which emphasises pre-authored fiction as a focus of play, rather than something more spontaneous and mutual between those at the table. I'm sure you disagree with these th...

Thursday, 10th May, 2018

  • 11:31 PM - pemerton mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    ...mple. Are you incapable of finding a more meaningful example? Didn't you mention up thread that kobolds serving dragons would have more impact than hobgoblins hating elves? You clearly realize there are degrees. I would disagree with this. As I mentioned, it depends on what has already been established. If my game is set in a world that is very much like Westeros let's say, then dropping an otyugh into a location certainly implies much more than if I used one in a game set on Oerth, where the presence of monsters is a given. So no, it doesn't just mean "here's an otyugh"; what it means will vary from game to game, depending on the world that's been established.Yes. I'm not saying that it's impossible to do more worldbuilding by using an otyugh, or writing lore into a MM. I'm saying that those things need not, as such, be worldbuilding. I'm not dkisputing that sometimes RPGers worldbuild and MM-authors worldbuild (though my threshold for the latter I think is higher than Hussar's). I'm disputing that it is inherent in running a game and setting up a situation.
  • 11:28 PM - pemerton mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    But what is it undermining? Even if it's not used in play what does having the information jotted down actively undermine?Well, Hussar thinks it bogs down published material in unnecessary stuff that doesn't contribute to play. I think (and he may agree - I can't remember all the posts) that it pushes towards an approach to play which emphasises pre-authored fiction as a focus of play, rather than something more spontaneous and mutual between those at the table. I'm sure you disagree with these thoughts. But that's the nature of these sorts of discussions!
  • 04:40 PM - pemerton mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Buying the monster manual is of course not worldbuilding, I don't know why you keep repeating that. Choosing which monsters to use from it, and whether to use the lore given or change it for your own purposes? Yes, that is worldbuilding as I conceive it.I am making the following assertion: using a giant rat in an AD&D game, but not having Sumatra as part of one's gameworld, is not and instance of changing lore. And it's not an instance of worldbuilding, beyond the utterly trivial (in this place there are giant rats). Likewise, Hussar dropping down an otyugh is not worldbuilding beyond the similarly trivial. In an of itself it implicates nothing about there being other monsters, or a world of aberrations, or anything else. It just means, "Here's an otyugh in a pile of *****."
  • 01:36 PM - Maxperson mentioned Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    But if the Phantom of the Opera was a RPG, then we know what happened, and we know exactly how much setting was required - namely, the opera house and the subterranean lair beneath it. That is - at least as I understand it - @Hussar (i) is pointing out that a story can proceed without worldbuilding beyond the immediate setting/situation in which the action unfolds, and (ii) is asserting that this is possible for RPGing. Then it's not an RPG. In an RPG I can talk about things outside the opera house. What you are describing is just a bunch of people sitting around reading a script, not a game where people roleplay and can ask questions beyond a building that they are in. His point is that he does not author any more setting in advance than he anticipates will be needed for the situations that will be the focus of play. Now because even @Hussar is only human, perhaps he sometimes misjudges - he authors something but it turns out it never gets used in play (eg the PCs never actually venture into the Phantom's lair); or he hasn't authored something but it turns out that he needs it (eg one of the PCs visits a theatrical agent, and so Hussar has to ad lib an account of the streets of Paris and the agent's wood-pa...


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Sunday, 20th May, 2018

  • 07:23 PM - FrogReaver quoted Hussar in post Quick poll about concentration
    As a player of a Forge Priest, I failed two last session. It happens and it happens pretty frequently. It's not like clerics are proficient in Con saves and a 14 Con means that I fail any concentration check at least 40% of the time. And, watching the other PC's in our games, I've noticed that our wizard types (whether sorc or wizard) tend to be pretty blaster heavy, so, concentration checks just don't come up that often for them, but, the cleric types (and I'm including paladins in here) have quite a few more concentration spells up, so, they tend to lose them more often. Add in that clerics are generally melee and many of their best spells eventually are concentration spells and they should be losing concentration a lot more than a wizard standing in the back trying to stay away and using the shield spell when it will turn a hit into a miss.

Saturday, 19th May, 2018

  • 08:52 PM - Yaarel quoted Hussar in post Planar Configurations; How Do You Design The Multiverse?
    Anyone who plays 5e and then appeals to rules as written has failed to actually read the manual. It's pretty clearly stated that the DM is in charge here. IOW, this is a player problem, not a problem with the books. To be fair, players lack need to read the DMs Guide. Generally, players read the Players Handbook. The *Players Handbook* needs to 1) consistently refer to the DMs authority to change the setting, and 2) encourage the player to customize their own character concept (with the DMs agreement and integration). Some posters here in Enworld refer to customization as ĎAdvanced D&Dí. Some suggest where D&D 5e lacks sufficient character customization by the player, Pathfinder 2 should emphasize it. During 4e, I argued passionately that the designers needed to find out what the D&D community actually wants. The designers of WotC then launched an unprecedented survey campaign to find out what the player base wants. It was extraordinary. I feel, even when the designers do something I ...
  • 03:15 AM - jgsugden quoted Hussar in post Planar Configurations; How Do You Design The Multiverse?
    And yet, and yet, despite these inconsistencies, those TV shows remain incredibly popular and people keep watching them. IOW, other than a small handful of folks, no one actually cares. It's inconsistent? So what? Most folks couldn't give a rat's petoot.That depends upon the sig ificance of the error. "Wait, you said the Shallows Gruel was yellowish brown, now it is brownish yellow?" "Wait, you said the spell determined it was impossible for him to lie. Now the only clue to figure out the murder ony made sense if we figured out that he was lying?" "We just spent 13 hours of real time following a clue that you decided isn't true anymore?"
  • 02:03 AM - Maxperson quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    Maxperson - you Americans get a jury trial for misdemeanors? What were you being charged with? I figured the reference to O.J. would have made that easy to guess :p Domestic violence was what I was taken in for. I'm not sure of of the exact name of the charge anymore. Probably domestic battery or something like that. It was a long time ago and I don't remember much more than I told you.

Thursday, 17th May, 2018

  • 01:15 PM - lowkey13 quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    Catching up a bit, but, again, there's no actual causation here. Where's the evidence that having alcohol at events increases harassment? Someone brought up work places. Sorry, but, no. Workplace harassment doesn't just happen at office parties. It happens all the time. And, probably far, far more often when no alcohol is involved, simply because most workplaces aren't drinking all that often. So, until someone can actually draw a link between having alcohol at con's and harassment, I think we're really barking up the wrong tree. That was me. Here's the full context- It's the same when discussing serious episodes of sexual violence on college campuses (from rape to groping). It's not impossible to find events that don't involve alcohol, but almost inevitably alcohol is involved.* *This is also an issue for work-sponsored events with alcohol. In fact, IME, workplaces that have regular "alcohol" events tend to have the most problems. So let's unpack this to your satis...

Tuesday, 15th May, 2018

  • 12:29 AM - Umbran quoted Hussar in post Avenger's Infinity War *Spoiler* Discussion
    Using your .4% idea, out of a thousand worlds, 4 have Texas vanishing. No. The 0.4% was for a room full of 10 people, five of them doctors. I said the probability of *all* doctors in the US biting the bullet was equivalent to having, specifically, Dallas vanishing. But is not equal to 0.4%. I can't tell you what it is, but I can tell you they are equal, because being a doctor is not the functional bit - being a member of a specifically chosen 1 million people is the important bit. Let us be clear: There's a difference between, "Given a nigh-infinite number of planets, this will happen on one of them, somewhere," and, "it is equally possible." That's what I am responding to - the mis-statement of the probability.

Monday, 14th May, 2018

  • 03:14 PM - Umbran quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    How do you police room parties though? Sure, the con could not have a "party room" but, if I'm paying to stay in my own hotel room, I don't think it's too likely that you can stop me from having drinks with people in my own room. It is possible that you could have a couple of people in your room for drinks, sure. But you are not having *thirty* people in yoru room getting drunk - this is what a typicaly "room party" is like) - they will be too loud, and folks trying to sleep will call the front desk to have you shut up. Heck, that can happen with four people, if they happen to be rowdy drunks.
  • 02:56 PM - Umbran quoted Hussar in post Avenger's Infinity War *Spoiler* Discussion
    But, that's the thing about randomness. Sure, you might get an even distribution, but, there's no guarantee of that. It's equally possible that you get group in random choices, meaning that you might wind up wiping out everyone with any medical training, for example, simply through random chance. Technically, that could happen, yes, but it is not "equally possible". The best way to see this is probably with a much smaller example. Imagine a room with 10 people in it when Thanos snaps his fingers. Five of these people are doctors, the rest are not. What is the chance that you lose the five doctors, and none of the others in the room? The number of different groups of five that might be chosen is given to us by combinatorics - and if I hae my numbers right, there are 252 distinct groups of five you could choose. Only *one* of these is all the doctors. So, the chance that you lose all the doctors is 1 in 252, or just under 0.4%. Not likely. It is as likely as any other *par...
  • 04:58 AM - billd91 quoted Hussar in post Avenger's Infinity War *Spoiler* Discussion
    But, that's the thing about randomness. Sure, you might get an even distribution, but, there's no guarantee of that. It's equally possible that you get group in random choices, meaning that you might wind up wiping out everyone with any medical training, for example, simply through random chance. It really is a mad idea. Well, he is the Mad Titan. Would it seem less mad if all the destruction were still essentially Thanos's love letter to the personification of Death? It may seem like that's, at least, is a bit better thought out than annihilating half the population for population management - but it's still madder than a hatter.
  • 04:49 AM - billd91 quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    How do you police room parties though? Sure, the con could not have a "party room" but, if I'm paying to stay in my own hotel room, I don't think it's too likely that you can stop me from having drinks with people in my own room. And, fair enough if all con's are in Boston, but, heck, the uni con I used to go to many years ago was on campus. My campus (University of Western) had dorm on campus plus several bars and a decent sized night club. I get that policing the con itself is probably a good thing. But, I'm not convinced that the con can really do much about what people do off site. I really do think that education is the key here, more than trying to enforce rules that realistically, you can't. Oh, they police room parties - at least to a degree. If the con's at the hotel, and con-goers are at the hotel, then pretty much any event the con-goers host will reflect on that con. Con security will respond to complaints about the room parties (at least they do in the cons I got to ...

Sunday, 13th May, 2018

  • 06:38 PM - Eltab quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    I get the idea, but, I'm not sure how practical it actually is. A 'Con-goer leaves the game tables a little early one evening, heads to the bar down the street, imbibes enough to feel it, wanders back to the hosting hotel, and makes a jerk of himself in the hotel part of the complex. The Con can throw him out if he arrives in its part of the building, for public intoxication, or for anything he does that gets a complaint lodged against him while in the 'Con's part of the building. The Con has no jurisdiction if he is a jerk outside the Con's area of the building or on the public sidewalk, &c. But, behind the scenes, the Con organizers could ask Hotel Security to inform them of anybody they pick up who is associated with the Con (he had a reservation in one of the Con's block of rooms, say). When the lout shows up at the Con again later, they know to keep an eye on him. If you want to make it work, you can think out a way to make it work. It took me just about 5 minutes to compose...
  • 03:41 PM - Umbran quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    How many con's are serving alcohol at the con though? The convention doesn't need to serve alcohol itself for alcohol to be part of the problem. Many conventions have the concept of the "room party" - where convention goers hold parties (with or without alcohol). These are sometimes used to promote things (like WorldCon bids), but often just for teh sake of having parties. Often with alcohol. Sometimes with lots of alcohol. Usually, the con has a designation for the "party floor" of the hotel (with the expectation that if you are on the party floor, it is going to be loud late into the night), and those having parties can advertise on the flyer boards around the con, or with tickets that are handed out (or stacks of tickets are often left in elevator lobbies. "Barfleet" is an organization that's into two things - Star Trek cosplay, and throwing parties with lots of alcohol. At one convention some years back, they had so much alcohol, and so many alcohol problems, that the nearest...
  • 09:22 AM - S'mon quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    How many con's are serving alcohol at the con though? In my experience, they don't exactly have bars serving in the con itself. Here in England they definitely do. OTOH I don't think I've ever seen a report of harassment from a convention here. So maybe US conventions need different rules for a different culture. :erm:
  • 02:59 AM - Umbran quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    But, that wouldn't prove anything. Correlation does not mean causation. After all, it's entirely possible that Alpha con doesn't necessarily actually have anyone going who would harass anyone. Additionally, those that might be harassed, might avoid Alpha con specifically because it allows alcohol, resulting in lower rates of harassment. And don't confuse the rate of harassment with the reported rate of harassment. The issue isn't drinking, or cosplay girls being scantily dressed, or booth babes, or anything like that. After all, those being harassed are often not any of those things. Fires are not *caused by* a lack of water pipes in the ceiling, but I'm going to guess you require the con hotel to have a sprinkler system. "Fire suppression systems," they are called. No, alcohol is not the root cause of harassment. But, alcohol is very well known for its tendency to relieve people of their inhibitions - so that pretty much any stupid or negative behavior becomes more common ...
  • 02:33 AM - Elfcrusher quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    Yet, there is (most likely) no alcohol being consumed during work hours. And if there IS alcohol being consumed during work hours...um, where can I get an application form?

Saturday, 12th May, 2018

  • 02:25 PM - Bedrockgames quoted Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    Yeah, this was fun, but, now it's time to let this one die. I've made my points, you can agree or disagree as you like. To me, world building and world builders have taken over the hobby to the degree that it has driven me largely out of it. I almost never buy any products anymore because most of the products are geared almost entirely for world builders. I'm quite happy in our group because our group gets it - get to the point and quit faffing about. When this thread started, some ten years or more ago, I was in a very different group and was so burned out by all the world building stuff. I'm still burned out on it today. I haven't picked up a fantasy novel in years for exactly this reason. And, well, it does help me to choose DM's to be honest. If the DM's description of his game world starts with something like "Thousands of years ago..." I'm taking a hard pass. I think you are way over-estimating the number of world builders in the hobby. Again, we live in a time wher...
  • 02:09 PM - Umbran quoted Hussar in post Avenger's Infinity War *Spoiler* Discussion
    Thereís an even nastier problem as well. With half the population gone, you just massively cut the gene pool, resulting in all sorts of nasty stuff down the line. On that score, I think it is okay. Cutting a gene pool in half is dangerous when the population is already small. But going from a gene pool of 7+ billion, to 3.5 billion? YOu still hae plenty of the genes you need. The chances of completely losing something important, or forcing inbreeding with a population that's still that large isn't significant.
  • 07:56 AM - Sadras quoted Hussar in post Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done
    Again, as far as security goes, remember, most con's are only a couple of hundred people. I've been to wedding receptions of that size. You don't really need to hire security for something that small. Sure, if you're talking GenCon or something like that, fair enough, but, 99% of conventions are probably a lot less than a thousand attendees. I'm surprised, I didn't realise the Cons (and I'm referring to gaming/comic Cons) being so small, especially in the US. Had the impression they were larger.
  • 04:39 AM - Maxperson quoted Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    To me, world building and world builders have taken over the hobby to the degree that it has driven me largely out of it. I almost never buy any products anymore because most of the products are geared almost entirely for world builders. I'm quite happy in our group because our group gets it - get to the point and quit faffing about. My bad for not "getting" the One True Way. Sorry.
  • 01:31 AM - Imaro quoted Hussar in post Why Worldbuilding is Bad
    I'd posit that the reason that people react so strongly to "world building is bad" is that they likely fall pretty heavily somewhere on the list I gave a few pages back and they can't handle the idea that their DMing isn't the perfect approach to gaming. *shrug* I'll do you one better and posit you'd probably be wrong...


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