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Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level Friday, 23rd February, 2018 12:07 AM

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Monday, 22nd April, 2019


Friday, 23rd February, 2018

  • 01:58 PM - CapnZapp mentioned tankschmidt in post [+] Design & Development: Wealth Curves
    And finally, the big boys, where level 20 characters end up with a lot of gold. Do note that this has been what every edition of D&D has resulted in, regardless of whether there's been anything to spend it on or not. The green 3rd ed curve is the much-discussed "Expected Wealth per Level", included mainly for comparison purposes. Since Sane Magic Prices seems to reuse much of the d20 framework I'm assuming this curve is great for any campaign including magic shoppes with Sane prices. Pathfinder is similar, for that game, and yellow. Presumably the differences are mostly because Paizo couldn't very well keep using the existing d20 curve, so they made their own. The most interesting of the three is the blue "typical" curve. Thanks to the efforts of tankschmidt and Kinematics we now have a curve of what the DMG treasure guidelines actually result in when used. Not always, of course - the curve is named "typical" because it's an average. You could call this the "default" curve in 5th edition. And that would be fine, as long as you remain aware you need no gold in this edition for the game to work. And indeed, even official adventure campaigns sometimes do not bother sticking to this line. (Actually I would be interested in wealth curves for each of the major hardbacks. For instance, my feeling is that Storm King's Thunder comes closest to Typical wealth since it mostly off-loads treasure awards to the DMG tables. While my experience with Out of the Abyss tells me it hands out very low wealth.) Here they are, first for low levels... 94544 ...then for all levels: 94545 I'd say they are remarkably similar on the whole. If you wonder why the blue curve looks a bit wonky, please head over to http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...

Wednesday, 21st February, 2018

  • 08:00 PM - CapnZapp mentioned tankschmidt in post Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level
    ...n additional 23,500 gp from the Challenge 5-10 hoards. He will have found an additional 110,000 gp by level 17. And he will have secured another 684,000 gp by retirement, presumably at level 20. Quite the nest egg! We can break this down into each level as follows: Level| Typical hoard treasure acquired (gp) 1|0 2|140 3|280 4|420 5|560 6|4500 7|8400 8|12,300 9|16,200 10|20,100 11|24,100 12|42,400 13|60,700 14|79,000 15|97,300 16|116,000 17|134,000 18|362,000 19|590,000 20|818,000 Returning to this rather influential post a few years later to make one observation and one error notification. My observation is that it is easy to miss that treasure hoards are per party, not per adventurer. As the post says, it assumes a four-way split. If your party consists of five people, if the DM does not compensate, the figures will be higher than what you will see at your table. My error notification is triggered by the large jump at each tier. This tells me tankschmidt has used the average level of the party to calculate which tier of hoards to use, not the challenge rating of the monster said party just defeated. This is incorrect. Since a level 4 party can and will loot the hoards of CR 5 creatures, they will gain tier II hoards already while still in tier I themselves. This makes the jump between tiers MUCH less abrupt, even if I suspect it won't actually change the end numbers much. By this I suspect a more accurate graph would feature higher data points at levels 4 and 5 and maybe 6 (and most significantly would not have a huge jump between levels 5 and 6) but by the time the party reach the end of each tier this effect would have been reduced to background noise. If that - the DMG does specify how many hoards of each tier is to be expected, and if that is taken into account, the level 20 sum should not change at all. The reason this matters is because I can't graph the table since each tier jump is not representative of what the designe...

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Wednesday, 21st February, 2018

  • 08:00 PM - CapnZapp quoted tankschmidt in post Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level
    ...n additional 23,500 gp from the Challenge 5-10 hoards. He will have found an additional 110,000 gp by level 17. And he will have secured another 684,000 gp by retirement, presumably at level 20. Quite the nest egg! We can break this down into each level as follows: Level| Typical hoard treasure acquired (gp) 1|0 2|140 3|280 4|420 5|560 6|4500 7|8400 8|12,300 9|16,200 10|20,100 11|24,100 12|42,400 13|60,700 14|79,000 15|97,300 16|116,000 17|134,000 18|362,000 19|590,000 20|818,000 Returning to this rather influential post a few years later to make one observation and one error notification. My observation is that it is easy to miss that treasure hoards are per party, not per adventurer. As the post says, it assumes a four-way split. If your party consists of five people, if the DM does not compensate, the figures will be higher than what you will see at your table. My error notification is triggered by the large jump at each tier. This tells me tankschmidt has used the average level of the party to calculate which tier of hoards to use, not the challenge rating of the monster said party just defeated. This is incorrect. Since a level 4 party can and will loot the hoards of CR 5 creatures, they will gain tier II hoards already while still in tier I themselves. This makes the jump between tiers MUCH less abrupt, even if I suspect it won't actually change the end numbers much. By this I suspect a more accurate graph would feature higher data points at levels 4 and 5 and maybe 6 (and most significantly would not have a huge jump between levels 5 and 6) but by the time the party reach the end of each tier this effect would have been reduced to background noise. If that - the DMG does specify how many hoards of each tier is to be expected, and if that is taken into account, the level 20 sum should not change at all. The reason this matters is because I can't graph the table since each tier jump is not representative of what the designe...

Monday, 27th March, 2017

  • 05:28 PM - CapnZapp quoted tankschmidt in post Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level
    Page 133 of the *DMG* tells us how many treasure hoards a party is expected to find over the course of a typical campaign. If we make a few assumptions, we can use this information to estimate how much wealth a character has accumulated at each level of his career. My assumptions going into producing this table are: * Treasure is split evenly among four members of the party. * The hoards are evenly distributed throughout their appropriate level ranges. * The players use individual monster treasure as “petty cash,” spending it on lifestyle expenses, carousing, replenishing supplies, bribing officials, hiring retainers, etc. * The party always finds the average total value of all coins, gems, and art objects in each hoard. Given these assumptions, a character who has just hit level 5 should have recovered about 560 gp from the Challenge 0-4 hoards. By level eleven, he will have recovered an additional 23,500 gp from the Challenge 5-10 hoards. He will have found an additional 110,000 gp...
  • 01:59 PM - CydKnight quoted tankschmidt in post Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level
    Nope, this does not include magic items. So your characters could have more money by selling their items -- if you allow them to do so.The characters in my current campaign have a wagon pulled by a mule and take anything that may be of even token value to attempt to sell or trade them. Depending on your the campaign and how your character's play it out, I could see the values in the OPs table doubling at least at some levels. Thanks, for this table by the way.

Thursday, 17th September, 2015

  • 02:43 PM - Jimbro quoted tankschmidt in post Parent - New 5e Background
    I think it's great! I definitely got annoyed when reading those personality traits -- too realistic! This would make a great background for an irritating PC. Hahahahaha. Thank you so much.

Friday, 15th May, 2015

  • 05:40 PM - CapnZapp quoted tankschmidt in post Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level
    Yes, my analysis gives a result that is remarkably different than the table on page 38. I wonder why the designers decided to make it that way? Frankly, there really is not a mechanism for losing substantial amounts of money over the course of an adventurer's career. On the whole, material components are quite cheap. Raising the dead is a pittance to what a typical character will have amassed from treasure hoards. And the cost for hiring skilled labor is truly minor. I can only assume that the table on page 38 was intentionally written to be overly modest so a DM would not feel pressured to give new characters the moon and the sun. An adventurer acquiring the typical number of treasure hoards will have way more than this, not even counting magical items. FireLance wrote a very nice post on typical magical item distribution (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?395770-Analysis-of-quot-Typical-quot-Magic-Item-Distribution), which is also at odds with the table on page 38. I do ...

Friday, 16th January, 2015

  • 08:27 PM - CapnZapp quoted tankschmidt in post Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level
    It seems like a default assumption to the high level game is that characters will go long times without adventuring. Snarky, but a point well made! :-)
  • 06:22 PM - CapnZapp quoted tankschmidt in post Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level
    Frankly, there really is not a mechanism for losing substantial amounts of money over the course of an adventurer's career. This, very much this. The vibe I'm getting is that things aren't truly well thought through. And that is a big problem for me. They removed the magic shoppe, but they did not come up with a directly comparable alternative. Not all groups care for building castles or starting churches. Lots of groups just want to move on to the next exciting adventure, the next monster-filled dungeon. For these groups, there really isn't anything to spend your gold on past, perhaps, level five. Having a guild or a wizard tower simply have no bearing. Having a brand new +1 longsword would. I haven't found a good solution yet. Adventurers will collect hundreds of thousands of gold: but if you don't care for a new castle, there really isn't anything to spend it on. Not that can match the utility and therefore desirability of a magic shoppe.

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