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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Today, 06:06 PM
    For me, it is that very "any" which opens up the second reading. I agree that, RAI, one single ally is probably the correct ruling. But RAW? Hard to say with such screwy wording!
    160 replies | 63999 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 05:14 PM
    Jeremy Clarkson would know about getting into other people's spaces. :p Personally, I ran my gelatinous cube fight theatre of the mind anyway. I don't expect it would have gone differently with minis, though.
    28 replies | 555 view(s)
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  • Hriston's Avatar
    Today, 01:33 PM
    The default setting is your choice of a world of medieval fantasy.
    7 replies | 233 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 01:27 PM
    So unarmoured barbarians add their CON bonus to their AC, as well as their DEX bonus. At low level this gives a moderate AC comparable to medium armour, but at very high level you may see some odd effects. Bracers of Defense (uncommon item) plus CON 20 plus DEX 16 plus shield gives AC 22 a lot cheaper than full plate & +2 shield (rare item). I don't think this is game breaking, but with the half...
    64 replies | 1047 view(s)
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  • Aldarc's Avatar
    Today, 01:06 PM
    Why did you feel it necessary to post this? Is there something compelling you to re-instigate old flame wars? :erm:
    9 replies | 273 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 09:22 AM
    I get AC 22 (18 plate, +2 shield, +2 magic shield bonus) since the +1 forge bonus is also magical. I think the rule would hurt magic/casting PCs and favour Barbarians, who can get a great AC in just a loincloth. :)
    64 replies | 1047 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 09:20 AM
    Yeah, I don't apply the rule to prone, unconscious creatures. You are free to stand on top of them. :)
    28 replies | 555 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 09:18 AM
    As others have said, the rule is you can't end YOUR turn in another's space. This seems to be a legacy of 3e/4e square-centric combat. I'd rule it (in fact I did rule it recently) that all the PCs who get pushed back get pushed back together in a jumbled heap. If there is no way back because of eg dead end corridor then I would make the engulf automatic.
    28 replies | 555 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 09:10 AM
    I think it'll work ok. It will tend to hurt PCs and help monsters, especially at higher level. In particular it will make larger PC groups relatively less powerful and lessen the quadratic buff effect. Personally I agree with others that stacking bonuses usually isn't really an issue in 5e because of the Concentration mechanic and because powerful monsters get very high to-hit bonuses, and...
    64 replies | 1047 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 09:01 AM
    However in 1e the M-U had THAC0 21 and a -5 non-prof penalty, Fighter had THAC0 20, -2 non-prof penalty, and with UA could x2 specialise for +3 to hit, +3 damage and ATT 3/2!
    116 replies | 3666 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 08:58 AM
    This eventually becomes the case in 5e, but you need to be around twice the 1e level to get the equivalent feeling of power. So eg 10th level 5e PCs can trash mobs of orcs the way 5th level 1e PCs can.
    116 replies | 3666 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 08:56 AM
    I don't like the 5e Ogre either. But most 5e monsters aren't statted like that. Look at the Bugbear, Lizardfolk, Gnoll, Hobgoblin & Orc for example.
    116 replies | 3666 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 08:39 AM
    I've been playing D&D with my son since he was 5, he's 11 now. Very young players have short attention spans, only about 30 minutes or so. Nowadays he's much like an adult player, only I guess more likely than most to instigate action. I think the amount of time and commitment needed to play through an AP is not particularly suitable for younger players; generally I think shorter adventures...
    10 replies | 361 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 08:25 AM
    This is definitely true, and a function of bonus action & 4e minor action healing. You get a kind of quadratic effect. Monsters can counter it by all going at once and finishing off fallen PCs immediately they go down, but I tend to reserve that for after the monsters first see the PCs bringing fallen PCs back up again.
    25 replies | 449 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 08:22 AM
    Yes, at least give melee creatures some javelins for when they can't reach the foe. Or a troll might have proficiency in throwing rocks - 2d4 damage but a +4 STR bonus still makes it annoying.
    25 replies | 449 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Today, 08:17 AM
    Some noble stats from my Wilderlands game, the Bronzes of Hara: King Namelin Bronze I ,King of Nerath (fr 20/8/4447) & Lord of Hara Alryan Human Male, Knight ST 16 DE 14 CO 16 IN 13 WI 15 CH 16 AC 19 (15 half plate, +2 shield, +2 DEX) HP 76 (10d8+30) CR 5 PB +3 Saving Throws Str +6 Con +6, Wis +5 Senses passive Perception 12. Disadvantage on Stealth checks. Languages Common,
    53 replies | 1617 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Today, 03:35 AM
    If you do have the offline character builder or find it somehow there is a tool for customizing it that I really like using -called CBLoader
    4 replies | 160 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Today, 03:00 AM
    A couple of ideas I had seem like they could be used by Warlord/Fighter variants One was a low level feature that helps out the Strength based character called Battle ready For most the beginning of a battle is something they have to react to and its reflexes that take over but for you its a fulfillment of your expectations and your plans. You may pick and alternative stat (instead of...
    487 replies | 12096 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Today, 01:44 AM
    Quick response - love your goals. updating the concept - good there were options that seemed to never make it to the table with the 4e Warlord (in spite of it being already very role versatile and having a lot of support, I think actually battlefield control could have been better and having some striker functionality? intrigues me) . Teamwork also vital (this is missing from the feel of...
    487 replies | 12096 view(s)
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  • Hriston's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:45 PM
    A stat block is for combat, so it may be unnecessary. For social interaction, a starting attitude and perhaps some personal characteristics are more important. The noble's skills and ability scores are pretty good for that too. The OP's question, however, implies that combat with the monarch is on the table. In that case, I think the noble is somewhat inadequate. It has some more interesting...
    53 replies | 1617 view(s)
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  • Hriston's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:19 PM
    I didn't know this. It seems like they could make stealth relevant by using fog-of-war on the VTT they're using. I have no idea why they've made these other changes, but it seems they're obsessed with making the game run faster through misguided streamlining. Right, when the game began they had already rolled initiative. There was no chance for anyone to hide first. Except for being...
    9 replies | 611 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:20 PM
    I suggest solving your problem by turning the solution over to your players. Take a page from 4E's handbook and present this as a Skill Challenge wherein PCs need to achieve X number of successes before 3 failures; each PC declares an action that makes use of a skill or ability as it fits the fiction; you apply new pressure on the group after each roll, successful or not. You may be surprised how...
    11 replies | 1093 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:33 AM
    Zealous Sanction (Cleric E7): "The first time any ally hits the target before the end of your next turn, that ally can spend a healing surge." Is this a one time effect, i.e., only on the first hit can that single ally spend a healing surge, or does this apply to each first hit by each ally before EoYNT?
    160 replies | 63999 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 06:41 PM
    I think you'll find this is overpowered at higher levels. You might get away with having the style give a +2 to AC, but adding Prof will break bounded accuracy. I can already make an Eldritch Knight who is almost impossible to hit, this would make it completely impossible except on a double 20 (assuming I have Blur up). When I first started GMing 5e I did a bunch of house rules, but I found...
    116 replies | 3666 view(s)
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  • Hriston's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 05:45 PM
    Did anyone else watch this? It looked like only around 1,200 viewers tuned in during the event. From the beginning, there was lots of lag, and the sound was cutting in and out throughout the broadcast to the point that it was hard to follow at times. It took a long time for the game to get going. First there was a lot of unnecessary commentary that seemed to go on forever, and then...
    9 replies | 611 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 03:22 PM
    The system outlined by you and further defined by MoutonRustique is the guideline for creating characters above level 1 with level-appropriate gear. The charts in the DMG lay out a level-by-level progression, wherein as a party, the group acquires L+4, L+3, L+2, L+1 magic items and 2(L) mundane loot (where L = value of magic item of current level, so 360 for level 1, 520 for level 2, etc.)....
    4 replies | 144 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 03:01 PM
    I have a chart somewhere about that is a more complex Wealth by Level which Wrecan worked out and it had columns showing variation if you used things like inherent bonuses. Although technically even the most fully implemented inherent bonuses really just removes bland magic items from the table not necessarily anything else.
    4 replies | 144 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 12:20 PM
    All the published spellcasting monsters & NPCs get a Proficiency Bonus based off their CR (not caster level). This does make them weaker than PCs at higher level, but they do have a PB.
    116 replies | 3666 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 12:19 PM
    IME 5e has good balance, but you need to play it to get a sense of it. Also, level 1 PCs are more like novices than veterans, the balance for eg MM monster stats is based more around level 3 PCs. So eg kobolds and goblins are very deadly vs level 1 PCs but make nice opponents vs level 3+.
    116 replies | 3666 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 12:14 PM
    I base my approach off the DMG. Basically, Tier I get standard starting gear. Tier II get 1 Uncommon item chosen from a list, plus 100gp, plus standard starting gear. I don't currently start PCs in Tier III or IV. Edit: Perma-death is rare IMC what with Raise Dead being available, so this is more for new players' PCs.
    19 replies | 387 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 12:11 PM
    S'mon replied to AoE-TotM
    Traditionally I'd roll some dice, eg a fireball against a mob on an open field might get 6d6 of them.
    6 replies | 256 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 12:07 PM
    It's mildly annoying.
    34 replies | 1201 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 12:02 PM
    You can have some incompetent monarchs use the MM Noble stat block, that's fine. Others should use Knight, Warlord etc as appropriate.
    53 replies | 1617 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 02:53 AM
    This comparison helps greatly and is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
    160 replies | 63999 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 02:20 AM
    I like that! Such loot then occupies a liminal space between pure monetary value and a somewhat more limited (but situationally more valuable) version of a magic item.
    7 replies | 287 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 02:17 AM
    I know this was kinda the CharOp consensus, but I can also kinda see how the above proviso lends itself to both readings. I guess I'm looking for a definitive reason that rules out the alternate reading. Why wouldn't all MC daily healing options confer the full encounter power as a daily power? (I'm not challenging the more limited interpretation; I'm just trying to understand why the other is...
    160 replies | 63999 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Sunday, 11th November, 2018, 01:30 AM
    darkbard, sort-of following on from your post: If we assume that magic items are mechanical in some fashion (eg grant bonuses to checks), then once we allow that mechanics can extend beyond combat, we have a framework for making sense of "loot" in the way you describe. In 4e there're are also options for approaching bonuses a bit differently eg the signet of authority allows one reroll in a...
    7 replies | 287 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 09:46 PM
    For MC Feats like Master of Stories, whose utility power is limited with the following proviso, "The auraís healing benefit can be used only once per day": does this essentially turn the encounter power into a daily power and thus the healing can be invoked twice during the encounter but only during one encounter per day, or does the healing function one time and one time only per day? Is...
    160 replies | 63999 view(s)
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  • Hriston's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 09:03 PM
    You're welcome! Because my goal was a unified mechanic for all offerings of inducement including bribes, gifts, rewards, and tributes, and because my houserule is in origin an adaptation of rules from the 1st Ed. AD&D DMG, I started with the idea that many skilled hirelings and henchmen will not accept an offer of employment for a term of less than one month or will require at least one-month's...
    743 replies | 83261 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 08:07 PM
    This, good sir, (inadvertently) solves a problem that has vexed me for ages regarding loot in D&D: of what use is nonmagical gear gear, like golden chalices, sparkling gemstone earrings, and jewelled swords, to PCs that would prevent them from simply converting said items to magic items (particularly in my 4E gaming, where the system assumes such)? The answer: loot is magic items. The princess's...
    7 replies | 287 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 05:15 PM
    Seems like a pretty substantial list for Scottish kings! AFAICS nobles were well trained, and it makes no sense to distinguish 'noble' from 'knight' for the medieval period.
    53 replies | 1617 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 02:51 PM
    Those all sound like good ideas. I suggest increasing the amount of magic weapons and armour, and increase some of the pluses, maybe even make the final weapon from +2 to a +3 sword. Edit: Running a Duergar-heavy adventure recently, I just gave the leaders 2 attacks and this worked well. You could give all the FoF duergar expedition 2 attacks & a +1 CR bump.
    25 replies | 449 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 01:36 PM
    In most cases you just want to increase monster numbers for a larger party. However 4 > 5 is a tier break and IMO Forge of Fury (written for 4 ca 3rd level PCs) cannot easily be redesigned to work well with 8 5th level PCs, because of the tier-break effect. You would basically have to swap out all the monsters. Maybe leave the orcs as easily defeatable, and Troglodytes > Lizardmen would help. The...
    25 replies | 449 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 01:29 PM
    Even 18th century monarchs still fought on the battlefield. Starts to become rare during the 19th century.
    53 replies | 1617 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Saturday, 10th November, 2018, 12:58 AM
    Yes I can build Zorro that feels like Zorro at level 1 but put on a few levels and I can get all the stuff
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 10:21 PM
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Stark
    53 replies | 1617 view(s)
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  • darkbard's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 05:06 PM
    Great to see you here, Nausicaa! Though you had already faded from active participation on the WotC CharOp boards before I started posting regularly there (as darkwarlock), I found your previous posts and guides invaluable. Many thanks!
    44 replies | 123487 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 12:57 PM
    I use the NPC stat blocks, like Knight, Champion, & Warlord. The Noble stat block is ok for noncombatant nobles. Sansa Stark - Noble Arya Stark - Assassin Bran Stark - Druid John Snow - Champion Robb Stark - Knight That sort of thing.
    53 replies | 1617 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 12:02 PM
    To get back to the OP; well only a melee combatant can use a shield, giving a +2 to +5 AC bonus which is very significant in 5e. Barbarians & Paladins only work in melee. Comparing Fighters, I'd guess a longbow Fighter is probably better than a greatweapon Fighter but I see more players with greatweapon Fighters so it can't be too crippling. In fact I don't think I've seen a DEX-based light...
    102 replies | 3262 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Friday, 9th November, 2018, 11:51 AM
    5e combat doesn't use squares except as a DMG optional rule. Common cases where I see cover in melee are (a) attacking around a corner and (b) attacking around a pillar or similar between the combatants. A doorframe can also provide cover. Three attackers vs one defender in doorway, I'd give cover bonus to the two attackers from either side of the doorway. I wouldn't give a cover bonus for...
    102 replies | 3262 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 11:36 PM
    Shas is talking 1e as much as I can't tell...ie thief having a percentage to climb walls
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 11:18 PM
    But you can't have hits bouncing off armor..... Like they were misses... Cause that isn't a hit... Ask Shas
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 11:16 PM
    Or this actually because Smaug ran out of luck... Convenient for the hero?
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 02:04 PM
    well there are multiple fear responses you could get some freezing up and being in the way... so you might need some loud social move to make some of them move ;)
    12 replies | 349 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 10:24 AM
    This appears to assume, as I said in my post, that the PCs are strangers. What you describe may be an excellent approach for a novelist wanting to introduce his/her readers to his/her imaginary land (I'm currently 50 pages into a rereading of Dune - Frank Herbert is doing a lot of this). But if one of the players is playing a dwarf; or if any of the PCs is from one of the civilisations in...
    46 replies | 1411 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 09:43 AM
    From https://5thsrd.org/combat/cover/ I can't see why cover wouldn't apply to melee attacks.
    102 replies | 3262 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 09:41 AM
    I'd say high magic; magic is ubiquitous and powerful. Lower magic than 3e/Pathfinder but I'd say they were very high magic. Higher magic than any other version of D&D.
    31 replies | 1127 view(s)
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  • S'mon's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 09:35 AM
    Re facing & flanking, I think the best approach is just to say that the 5th+ attackers have advantage, since defender can't cover all lines of attack at once. That's basically how we did it in 1e.
    42 replies | 1567 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 03:37 AM
    I don't know - why would they? I suggested that the GM should probably follow the players lead, which the player sketched out in the OP and was seeking some feedback on. Whereas my recommendation would be to answer the question Does a game in which a half orc paladin of conquest seeks divinty by eating the hearts of coutatls, devas etc sound exciting?. Presumably the player thinks it is, or...
    14 replies | 548 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 03:30 AM
    The difference between (1) me, in the world, going to my place of work and saying hello to my colleagues, and (2) me, as a player, asking the GM to tell me where my place of work is, and what it looks like, and who my colleagues are, and what they are like, is huge! The second is very like having someone read me a book or tell me a (perhaps not super-gripping) story. But if the goal is...
    46 replies | 1411 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Thursday, 8th November, 2018, 12:28 AM
    Very nice by the way!!!!
    147 replies | 125702 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 10:41 PM
    No it wouldn't. The real world is something I live in and experience. My knowledge of it is intimate. It is not mediated to me through anyone's verbal narration of it. The most obvious way to emulate this in a RPG is for the players to stipulate elements of the setting as they need to. Not for the GM (or a 3rd party) to write up reams of fiction in advance of play. Providing a tool to...
    46 replies | 1411 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 03:10 PM
    Yes and we go with that rather heavily "defeated" can also mean fleeing the scene of battle. Or other power specific fiction which make sense.
    12 replies | 349 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 02:41 PM
    Again, this is not my experience at all. When I started a Classic Traveller campaign, I rolled up the starting world in front of the players, after they had rolled up their PCs. We discussed how each of the PCs had got there - integrating the implict story resulting from PC gen (Traveller uses a lifepath system) with the implicit story of the world - and one of the players decided that this...
    46 replies | 1411 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 02:35 PM
    My experience is closer to cmad1977's. Reading someone else's story about what happened in some imagined place at some imagined time doesn't help my immersion.
    46 replies | 1411 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 02:03 PM
    What you've set out sounds fun to me! Why would the GM not just follow the player's lead?
    14 replies | 548 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 09:09 AM
    As far as I know the god Dumathoin was first mentioned in DDG under the entry for Moradin, but nothing was said about him except that he is the "god of secrets under mountains". Vergadain and Dumathoin were written up by Roger E Moore in Dragon 58, as part of his "point of view" and demihuman god series. As far as I know this was the first appearance of Vergadain. This is reprinted as part of...
    2 replies | 190 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 08:39 AM
    Continuing in my persona as the man from 15 months ago: This was interesting, both in general and because I'm trying to get myself into the mindset to GM Dungeon World next year. I don't know BitD outside of this thread and a few other posts about it, so my thinking/question will be framed in (what I take to be) DW-ish terms. And also BW-ish terms. It seems to me that this issue of...
    41 replies | 5143 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 06:00 AM
    When this has come up in my game we've handled it in various ad hoc ways. Remember that the player can always choose that "dropped to zero" equals unconsciousness, not death, so to a significant extent this will be about what the attacking player thinks makes sense in the fiction. I certainly have memories of the wizard player in my game using Colour Spray as an AoE when innocent parties were...
    12 replies | 349 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 05:55 AM
    Coming in a bit late (!), but this resonated with me. It may seem slightly odd, but I had the sort of feeling you describe when our group generated PCs for Classic Traveller. I'm sure it's clunkier than BitD, and probably not as "fiction first", but compared to some other systems (eg AD&D, or RM, or a certain approach to 4e) the characters felt real, with histories that could easily be seen as...
    41 replies | 5143 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 05:19 AM
    Manbearcat, cthulhu42, I think this might be the thread: Blades in the Dark Actual Play. It was started by Campbell.
    5 replies | 255 view(s)
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  • MoonSong's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 04:31 AM
    But isn't that still something external not internal?
    46 replies | 1409 view(s)
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  • Manbearcat's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 03:10 AM
    I can't find the old post by chao and I that went very in-depth into Blades, unfortunately. I'm sure a solid effort to search should find it. I'm currently running a very intermittent Wild West hack of Blades rifted off of Red Dead Redemption (after considering a Space hack) retrofitting the Duskvol map and refluffing all of the gangs/power players therein. I'd be glad to run DW for you...
    5 replies | 255 view(s)
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  • pemerton's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 02:50 AM
    On these boards, I think Manbearcat has played a bit of BitD. Maybe Campbell also. I think there are a lot of RPG systems that are underappreciated and worth talking more about. That's why I keep posting about my play experiences with Prince Valiant, Classic Traveller, etc! Unfortunately I've not played any BitD and not much DW either, so don't have heaps to offer on this occasion. I am...
    5 replies | 255 view(s)
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  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 01:55 AM
    That could be a second form of impairment Of course do an intimidate on every last one it could clear the area pretty well.
    12 replies | 349 view(s)
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  • MoonSong's Avatar
    Wednesday, 7th November, 2018, 01:08 AM
    I'm reluctant to watch the show, I've liked Sabrina for a long time. And I don't mean just the Sitcom, I used to watch the cartoons as a kid-and I don't mean the Disney and postDisney ones-. To me Sabrina is meant to be this cutesy and lighthearted thing; I'm not ready to see it as scary and chilling black humor. Also I'm not a fan of the devil pact in the new adaptation, I liked that witch just...
    46 replies | 1409 view(s)
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  • Hriston's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 08:21 PM
    I gauged it to roughly equal a month's wages for a skilled hireling, so you could base it on the magistrate's salary. But really it's whatever their price is, depending on how loyal they are to whomever you're asking them to betray.
    743 replies | 83261 view(s)
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  • Hriston's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 07:30 PM
    The inventor(s) of the original game made gold a prominent game-element because they imagined an instance of play part of the premise of which was the creation of heroic tales featuring veritable mountains of gold for the taking. Since house-rules for bribes and other offerings of inducement that might make wealth relevant to game-play have been asked about, I use a house-rule that sets a...
    743 replies | 83261 view(s)
    2 XP
  • Manbearcat's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 02:25 PM
    On (1), one way to systematize it would be to mechanically gate every spell that is cast by an Intelligence (Arcana), Wisdom (Religion), Charisma (Perform), maybe Constitution (Endurance). Depending on how itís subsequently systematized, there could be a few different emergent properties. One approach could be a success letís you cast the spell normally, a success with a cost/Complication...
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
    4 XP
  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 09:26 AM
    I think i agree most of the time individual stats are hardly needed even in a dangerous situation. In a battle they are part of a huge skill challenge. The movies feature heros teaching and guiding joe blows in advance of an onslaught to minimize burned down town transforming them into surprise effectiveness it might be history checks to guide them so as to minimize their deaths or get them...
    12 replies | 349 view(s)
    0 XP
  • S'mon's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 09:23 AM
    I think 1e at least has the exact same issue with solo monsters dying very fast. The difference is that 1e assumed the DM would be rolling "number appearing" dice and multiple monsters by default. If there is a problem with 5e monsters I think it is that high level non-legendary monsters can be easily taken out by a single spell, whereas in 1e they would usually make their save.
    49 replies | 1637 view(s)
    0 XP
  • pemerton's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 06:46 AM
    What's your resolution system? Ie how do you decide if the PCs have escaped the dreams?
    6 replies | 263 view(s)
    0 XP
  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 05:58 AM
    Alongside the concrete uses of the practical arts, I am thinking I may include example skill challenges and how they might interact with them. As well as a Without the Art Sidebar section for each.
    336 replies | 34429 view(s)
    0 XP
  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 05:42 AM
    Yes and that was hilariously extreme disconnection between the fiction and the function was gobbled up and made a sacred cow.... hell magic missile was changed to sometimes miss? They couldnt have that.
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
    0 XP
  • Manbearcat's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 05:30 AM
    Agreed with everything above and that (b) is most certainly the lynchpin. The only thing I'll add is that you forgot to add the savant-level memory component required to assimilate an (dare-I-say genre-defying?) overwhelming curriculum of precise arcane formulae (surely in ancient, nigh-impossible-to-articulate, tongues) and spit them out with absolute precision and reproducibility under the...
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
    3 XP
  • pemerton's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 05:11 AM
    Especially (b), ie the fact that spellcasting in D&D almost never requires a successful check. Think about what, supposedly, the fiction of D&D spellcasting involves - precise hand gestures, speaking complex arcane syllables of such power and profundity that only a few of them can be impressed into a human brain at any one time (ie Vancian spell memorisation/preparation), pulling various...
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
    4 XP
  • Manbearcat's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 04:50 AM
    You don't think the below are HUGE PARTS OF THE PUZZLE in the majority of D&D: a) the designers CHOSE (it didn't have to be done this way...plenty of systems don't...and they play VERY differently for it) to have a ridiculous number of codified spell effects covering an absurdly large number of broad, significantly gamestate-changing supernatural abilities ("I can expressly accomplish a, b, c,...
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
    1 XP
  • Manbearcat's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 04:29 AM
    What is on the table is how "player-facing" (or codified/explicit) prospects for martial action declarations vs "GM-mediated" prospects for action declaration affect the table. Personally, my sense is it affects the table as follows: 1) In "player-facing" systems, players who play martial characters KNOW FOR CERTAIN (before play ever begins) that (a) their conception of their martial...
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
    4 XP
  • pemerton's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 03:08 AM
    I've never played serious Pendragon, only one or two one-shots at conventions years ago. I got a copy of Pendragon 5.2 with Prince Valiant as part of the Kickstarter. It's an interesting system, and we're using the price lists and the map for our Prince Valiant game, but I don't think I could imagine actually running Pendragon as a serious campaign. Besides it's general "heaviness", I don't...
    7 replies | 287 view(s)
    0 XP
  • Garthanos's Avatar
    Tuesday, 6th November, 2018, 01:36 AM
    Fanning edition wars and caving to them got him his current job. edit: i know pointless snark
    712 replies | 9206 view(s)
    1 XP
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Tuesday, 13th November, 2018


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Monday, 12th November, 2018

  • 05:44 PM - Imaro mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    You can totally ignore that type of mythic fantasy in 4e too. Refluffing is a thing in 4e, make good choices that reflect realistic options, get table agreement that's the style of play that is supposed to happen. Done. But the mechanics of the powers still speak to that type of fantasy... earlier someone quoted something along the lines of "When you die for the first time today..." It's pretty hard to refluff casual self-resurrection as "realistic"... even D&D realistic Honestly this is baffling me we have @pemerton claiming mythical fantasy is an inherent part of 4e but then you're saying it's casually easy to remove or ignore it... which one is it?
  • 05:08 PM - Imaro mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    I think for me it is not so much that 5e does not have supernatural martial characters as I'm not so much of a fan of that genre. It is more that casters do not have as many setbacks and have too many auto abilities as well as non-cost powers (cantrips). Thankfully 5e allows for a fair amount of system tinkering and so that issue, if it is an issue at one's table, can be solved. I think this is one of the biggest difference between 4e and 5e (not that the tools, advice, etc. are absent from 5e as pemerton claims). 5e makes it so that you can totally ignore this type of fantasy and still play up to level 20 and beyond...or if you want a DM can implement Epic Boons and let the advice on Mythic fantasy in the DMG inform his adventures and have a game based in mythic fantasy. 4e gave you one choice... implement mythical fantasy or stop playing at a certain level... which probably rubbed those not looking for mythic fantasy the wrong way.

Sunday, 11th November, 2018

  • 07:33 PM - Garthanos mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    ...death early on and in paragon and maybe even takes an ability to do battlefield medic but pictures it as him barring death from the injured. And later mid paragon when this fairly Herakles like hero says I want to save the life of my friends dying wife by Wrestling death perhaps I can just roll with that seeing death idea and get drunk on fancy wines to see death himself I want to challenge him for her soul, exactly 3 days after her death. Perhaps this becomes more balanced when it is gatewayed just like the raise dead ritual - Note late heroic is when the Cleric can plop down expensive incense and raise someone who has been dead for quite a while 100 percent reliably. Note I just rolled out raising the dead via something like an athletics application (or maybe an actual fight and have the whole party be guided by the one) because the help action on the magical forge is getting a bit boring OK the fact that it got rejected while being so basic does make it noteworthy example - @pemerton EDIT : I actually had a player whose character had an ability which was mostly a flavor of seeing dead spirits as they died - long long ago when we were playing with DragonQuest I think actually. (not really more than a healing check might do)... He was an elven bard of the winds with very dark over tones and sort of anti-assassin characteristics. So the Herakles with combat medic who saw death would be entirely in line with that.
  • 01:45 PM - Imaro mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    I dont know how typical your example of a skill challenge is but for many Fighters the chances of adding a success look pretty grim with the given examples of skills to use. Given that you need to hit between high 20s to low 30s for a success the player needs to come up with a narrative way they can swing an Athletics or Survival check into convincing the Aspect of Moradin to help. Well here's a list of examples and there usage in another Epic skill challenge from the epic tier adventure "Test of Fire" where both Athletics and Stealth uses are suggested... again in a totally mundane...but with bigger numbers...type of way. I just find it strange that if mythic feats like the one pemerton described (shoving one's hands into a furnace to hold an artifact while it is being forged) are the inherent fiction in epic level 4e... well why do the examples in official adventures seem so mundane? It's almost as if it isn't inherent in 4e but instead what pemerton has chosen the fiction to be in his epic level 4e games (which is a great thing but again something that can be done in 5e as well)... I mean when using stealth why aren't the characters commanding the stuff of shadows to cloak themselves? Why when using Athletics do they need to leap from barge to barge or find a narrow point to leap the length of the canal shouldn't an epic warrior with athletics just be able to make a leap across it's entire breadth at even it's widest point? Skills Use the following general descriptions as a guideline for the types of activities the heroes can attempt with each of this challengeís primary and secondary skills. All checks in the challenge are made using an adventurerís...
  • 08:02 AM - Imaro mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Was I talking about your point or Hussars point? Because I really can not see that one 4e DM allowing a character to plunge their hands into a forge is evidence that every 4e DM would allow it, or indeed any other DM. The 4e system is designed to force Players who want to maximise their chances of passing a skill challenge to try and use their best skills in anyway that the DM will allow. I would imagine that the best system of DnD for creating magical items was actually ADnD because the adventure was in the assembly of the materials required rather then in the process of creation itself. Good point... are there any official 4e Epic adventures where something like the forge example @pemerton gave is a part of an official skill challenge or check? I was glancing through an epic tier adventure from Dungeon called "Those Once Loyal" and the skill challenges and checks I saw seemed pretty mundane (with the epicness seeming to come from the opposition as opposed to the capabilities of the PC's). I've included one below but I have to say none of the suggested uses of skills comes close to sticking one's hands in a searing hot magical forge to help in the creation of an artifact. In fact compared to that the skill uses below (though admittedly having large DC's) seem downright tame to the point of well almost being ordinary uses against bigger things. So I'm hoping someone can provide examples of the types of things being cited here as inherent to 4e epic tier and not just how a particular DM chooses to run their game at epic tier. Common Cause The aspect grieves for your troubles, but his own loyalty to Bahamut blinds him to your true purpose. Level: 28 (XP 26,000) ...
  • 07:08 AM - Sadras mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    @pemerton and in part @Hussar You have pushed for the merits of a defined skill table at various levels and/or mentioned 5e DM's giving varying DCs on skill checks as issues of the game. I'm wondering if you have the same contempt, because it can only be described as contempt after so many posts, with TotM. Let us face it TotM can produce some varied results, not all DMs will have the exact same picture in their mind and certainly players will have different ones. I'm wondering if you are consistent in your contempt for unsurety across the board or if you're just cherry-picking?
  • 04:27 AM - Imaro mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    ... I see it harped on as a major problem is on forums like this and it's usually by a handful of 4e fans who are trying to convince others to be outraged enough about it to actually care as much as they seem to. As long as they are having fun playing the fighter in 1e, 2e, 3e or 5e, and I doubt they'd continue to play a game if they weren't (cue the how irrational people can be argument :yawn: ), they just don't care about this "imbalance" between classes that you feel they should be making an issue about. they probably look at it in the vein of if they wanted to play a magic wielder or a ki channeling monk they would. Instead they picked a fighter and they are a-ok with playing that class because it is fun for them. On a side note I find it interesting that the game that supposedly "corrected" this still had fighters with the lowest amount of skills, nealry all combat focused powers, nothing equivalent to rituals, and still ultimately relied on DM fiat to allow things like pemerton's forge scene. You want to know what baffles me? How proponents of 4e can claim that edition actually fixed this supposed disparity between the magic wielders and the martial classes.

Saturday, 10th November, 2018

  • 07:16 PM - Imaro mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    No, not really. I will admit DMs are pretty likely to do that, to keep things interesting, but the scale is very manageable and flexible. Thinking about this, I also just noticed that it is literally impossible for any PC to hit a DC 30, until Level 5...that is, until Tier II. So a certain gating is definitely built into the system. Lol... I made this point earlier to @pemerton. That there are in fact things that can be accomplished by higher level PC's that can't be by lower level PC's (from a mechanical standpoint). The difference I think in the approaches, and maybe where @pemerton ' s contention is, is that 4e tells you these things are part of the epic tier and they involve this specific fiction... while 5e says these are beyond the ken of certain men and you the DM decide what that is in your particular campaign. I think pemerton wants the game to define these things for him while I (and I think others) rea happy to decide what these things are for ourselves in any particular camapign. The fact that official adventures seem to rarely if ever use these DC's (thus also not attaching a specific fiction to them) would seem to reinforce this notion of the DM defining what falls into those extreme DC's. EDIT: I want a more mythical campaign... Fighters sticking their hands into forges of creation to hold an artifact while it is created become doable at...
  • 06:44 PM - Imaro mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    This... ... and a low level character can still have some effect on something out of their league. It's a smaller range, very elegant in practice. and this... All DCs are determined by DM fit, so if the DM and players are going for a particular style, it is possible to roll for it. Pretty much sum up the stance of most if not all proponents of 5e in the thread. Bounded Accuracy allows one to "influence the fiction" over a greater range of mechanical difficulty. Whether that's a low level fighter who can on a very lucky roll hit some pretty high (though maybe not the highest DC's possible) or a high level fighter who can on a very bad roll still have rock crumble and break under his grasp on a regular cliff face and fall. Furthermore this range is expanded or decreased by the specific build choices made by the player. I think this view has been pretty consistent with most if not all of the 5e fans in this thread...and I'm not sure why pemerton you are trying to continually push it as having been stated as an all or nothing type thing... i.e. All low level characters can influence all high level tasks and all high level characters can be affected by all low level tasks.

Friday, 9th November, 2018

  • 03:51 PM - Sadras mentioned pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Well see that's the thing... you don't get to play a Conan or Achilles under this paradigm. You have to play someone like Beowulf, Gilgamesh, Sundiata or Heracles... someone with blatant supernatural or divine powers but who doesn't use spells per se. EDIT: Personally I have a multitude of games (Exalted, Godbound, Gods of the Fall, etc.) whose whole premise is this so I'm not necessarily looking for that in D&D... though I wouldn't be adverse to a supplement or add on for these types of heroes in 5e. I may be misunderstanding, but my reason for my ask is because I'm not familiar with Conan and his abilities hence my question. I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Conan, whom pemerton has described as being able to one-shot a lich, is the pinnacle fighter i.e. level 20.

Thursday, 8th November, 2018

  • 09:42 PM - Hussar mentioned pemerton in post Worlds of Design: Fantasy vs. Sci-Fi Part 1
    There's the other side of this too. I'd hardly call Harry Potter anti-modernist. Never minding all the "urban fantasy" stuff that's come out in the past twenty years or so. And, pemerton, I'm not sure why you'd "bracket" the Wells criticism. Wellsian vs Vernian is a pretty standard criticism of speculative fiction. That's been pretty solidly established. Wells' anti-science, anti-technology bent is quite obvious - The War of the Worlds sees the technologically advanced aliens brought low by the tiniest bit of life. This is hardly controversial. But, as far as "beating the evil robot", sorry, was being a bit tongue in cheek. A better example would be the numerous dystopia SF works where technology has destroyed the world and it's only through pluck and gumption that we can make things right. Look, I don't like Wellsian fiction. It's not to my taste. So, I'm not the right one to describe it. But, I would hope that we can not get stuck on pulling out single words out of a point and dive down the rabbit hole of chasing dueling examples.

Wednesday, 7th November, 2018

  • 03:10 AM - Manbearcat mentioned pemerton in post Blades In The Dark
    I can't find the old post by chao and I that went very in-depth into Blades, unfortunately. I'm sure a solid effort to search should find it. I'm currently running a very intermittent Wild West hack of Blades rifted off of Red Dead Redemption (after considering a Space hack) retrofitting the Duskvol map and refluffing all of the gangs/power players therein. I'd be glad to run DW for you live over Skype pemerton with a couple of your buddies if we could find a way to bridge the 14 hour time difference!

Tuesday, 6th November, 2018

  • 03:29 AM - Hussar mentioned pemerton in post Worlds of Design: Fantasy vs. Sci-Fi Part 1
    Heh. I think this is one area we're just going to have to agree to disagree. pemerton, you are arguing for a depth in Conan that I'm simply not seeing. Conan is pulp fiction. It's about as deep as the average rain puddle. I think you are expanding far beyond the text. But, then again, maybe I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. Could quite possibly be. But, in any case, genre's are best defined by their centers, not by their edges. Look at the central works that we put in a given genre and then extrapolate from there. At the center of SF you works like Asimov, Heinlein, Herbert, P. K. Dick, etc. And one of the thing that those works share in common is that they are asking different questions than fantasy does. Like you said, Tolkien is often about what makes someone evil. I'd agree with that. But, that's the point. It's a morality story. It's about good and evil. The Three Laws of Robotics aren't about good and evil, they are about ethics - what does it mean to live in a society and how does that society work? You asked earlier about my differentia...

Monday, 29th October, 2018

  • 07:18 AM - Hussar mentioned pemerton in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    Just to back up a second pemerton. In 5e D&D, which is where we'll stay for just the moment, social and combat mechanics are quite different. Social mechanics are very loosey goosey and require a lot of DM and player input in order to work. They are not particularly formulaic in their presentation. How we use skills is left largely up to the table. Combat, OTOH, is not. It is very formalized, even if the language isn't. You have your 6 second round. Player takes an action, and that action needs to be entirely mechanically resolved, before it can be narrated. You flat out cannot narrate any action in 5e combat any other way. Even movement can't be since you have feats like Sentinel which can cancel movement. And attacks are subject to a shopping list of pre and post modifiers that can completely change the result of any given die roll. Even damage can be modified considerably. Each "action" in 5e is a discrete unit that must be entirely resolved before you can move on.

Thursday, 25th October, 2018

  • 10:32 AM - Hussar mentioned pemerton in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    Allow me to add this bit... The game specifies that as the default rule triggered reactions events happen **after the trigger** unless stated otherwise. That statement means the trend in the rules will be that they only need to mention the EXCEPTIONS in the individual rules. So any sort of conclusions based on a nose count of how many times interrupt is specifically called out or mentioned is either uninformed or deceptive in its nature since they set it up so that it was only necessary to mention the exceptions. /ninja'd by pemerton. Readied actions are a special case. Which, I did mention there were a few of in 5e.
  • 09:59 AM - Sadras mentioned pemerton in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    This just underlines my point. ;) I don't know about that. Enlightened Dungeon/Games Despot just doesn't work for me and didn't for Gygax. ;) Presumably pemerton agrees with me on this, since he quotes Gygax and 1e so often upthread, unless we are picking and choosing.
  • 08:55 AM - Hussar mentioned pemerton in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    Not quite pemerton. While it does vary from ability to ability (some fighters, for example, can impose disadvantage on an attack but, by the rules, must declare they are doing so (it uses their reaction, so, they can only do it once per round) before any dice are rolled. OTOH, a Shield Spell states: Casting Time 1 reaction, which you take when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell But, by and large, at least, as far as I can think right now, nothing lets you change things after damage has been rolled. That being said, it is left unstated a few times. A rogue's Uncanny Dodge ability, for example, allows you to "use your reacction to halve the attack's damage against you". There is no actual statement on the timing of that ability. In any case, the general rule would certainly be that any reaction is used before damage is rolled. With specific beating general of course.
  • 08:14 AM - Hussar mentioned pemerton in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    But I was talking about the rolling of the damage. With a blowgun, if I'm hit then I know how much damage is coming in yet can use Shield. So why can't I wait until the damage from a sword blow is rolled - but then use Shield before it is opposed. (There's also Hriston's excellent point about rolling practices.) But how is knowing whether the arrow is coming for my head or my thigh meta-knowledge? Then make it a blow to my foot and a blow to my head. Or whatever. pemerton, I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. Virtually every interupt power in 5e is used before damage is rolled. It is, however, typically done AFTER a hit is declared. So, technically, they are time travel powers since it can turn a hit into a non-hit. That of course presumes that die rolling corresponds to actions in the game world. Which, IMO, they don't. You don't actually know the result of an action until the action is completed. So, there is no "hit" event separate from a "damage" event. There is only one event, which remains in a nebulous state until every game action has been taken. So, a "hit" might be damaging or it might not really be a hit until such time as everyone at the table signs off on it. I'd point out that this is how 5e handles not killing as well. You hit, you deal damage, AND you declare that you aren't killing the target BEFORE anything actually happens in the fiction. Earlier editions avoided all of this because they didn't real...

Wednesday, 24th October, 2018

  • 09:24 AM - Sadras mentioned pemerton in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    What if it's an attack that does a static amount of damage? (Eg a blowgun) Really @pemerton :erm: If you have 10 hit points and you know the damage will floor you then you'd raise a shield. If you have 10 hit points and you know the damage will not floor you and your ally cleric is going next who is going to heal you, then you might save your reaction (counterspell) for the evil mage whose turn is after your cleric friend.

Tuesday, 23rd October, 2018

  • 01:34 PM - Maxperson mentioned pemerton in post What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
    You seem to have confused a player declaration of effect with an ingame event. (And this rule is from 4e - one of many aspects of 4e that carry over into 5e.) Not confusing those things at all. In the game the PC has already hit and killed the opponent. Then, AFTER the player has found out that fact, the player can suddenly have the PC time travel back to before damage was rolled and decide to knock out the opponent. The player should know before the swing if he wants the PC to knock out the creature, so there's no time travel needed for a knockout to occur. It's a silly rule. I ask again - do you regard it as RAW that a king's champion must mete out death, or must have meted it out, such that a PC fighter whose player uses the drop-to-zero rules such that the PC doesn't kill anyone is implementing a house rule, or breaking this fighter rule, or whatever? It's a white room scenario pemerton. Knocking out the 20 goblins killing the townsfolk does nothing as the will just get back up and kill more. What is the party going to do? Leave them out in the middle of the forest to wake back up? It's not feasible to carry them to town. Carrying them to town will just result in the town killing them anyway, which will introduce the fighter to meting out death indirectly. I already posted some examples upthread - mercenary soldiers (pp 30-31 of the DMG). That's not much of an example. If they were not capable of advancing in level at all, then the Captains and Lieutenants would be level 0 still. At some point they were capable of gaining experience and advancing in level, but for game balance reasons, Gygax halted them at the level they had already progressed to. Also, what happens if the PC makes the 7th level Captain a henchman? Henchman can gain levels and advance, yet the NPC is still also a mercenary Captain which cannot gain levels an advance. Will he or won't ...


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Tuesday, 13th November, 2018

  • 08:02 PM - Sadras quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    That doesn't really seem like an action declaration on the player's part - it seems more like passive resistance Alright lets talk action declarations At low levels you face goblins/kobolds, bust open treasure chests and wooden doors, climb up a small mansion or village palisade, wrestle with the tavern drunk, shove a town guardsman, with the DCs likely fitting into the 8-14 range. At high levels you face giants, burst through a swarm of orcs, break down steel doors, climb up a fortress in the middle of Avernus, wrestle with a Nalfeshnee, shove a stone golem, with the DCs likely fitting into the 15-20 range. The level of the PCs bleeds into the types of challenges one generally would face with the action declarations logically becoming increasingly more difficult. Can a 1st level attempt some of these tasks on their own, sure - but not within the greater context of a high level adventure where the resource cost is greater and the combats are tougher. but in any event it loo...
  • 03:59 PM - Imaro quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    I will repost LostSoul's post that makes this point as clearly as I believe it can be made, about the sequence of fiction and mechanics in 4e compared to other editions (he focuses particularly on 3E, but I think the point generalises): Okay I realize this isn't your quote but I'm finding it hard to parse exactly what is meant. So when I look in the 4e DMG pg. 64 there is a chart that lists DC's to climb or Break Through Walls. It lists a 6in thick wooden wall as a DC 26 to break and a natural stone wall (3ft thick) as a DC 43 to break. Is the contention that I can't measure how much closer I get to being able to break stone walls vs. wooden by looking at the bonuses I am receiving in Athletics skill?? If so that doesn't seem right.
  • 01:00 PM - Sadras quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Just to answer this last part real quick. So what is the appropiate DC for a non-cbombat hallenge that is "tiered" to be feasible for a 15th level fighter but is out of the question for a 1st level one? An air elemental sounds the horn with its endless breath, guarded by a stone golem...(snip)...While the horn is sounding, a creature must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw the first time on a turn the creature enters a 150-foot cone in front of the horn or starts its turn there. On a failed save, the creature takes 27 (6d8) thunder damage and is knocked prone. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage and isnít knocked prone.
  • 11:12 AM - Sadras quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    That example wasn't raised by me. And as far as TotM is concerned I said whatever floats your boat. I explained what floats my boat, and under what conditions. I don't care what 5e GMs do. I'm explaining what features that 4e has that (i) are salient to me and (ii) are absent from 5e. I've never seen that done for combat in non-4e D&D at any table. And I don't think I've ever heard of it. People work out what the AC of an orc is by looking it up in a book (either directly, or by deciding that the orc is wearing (say) mail and then looking up mail on an AC-by-armour-type chart). People work out that a 1st level fighter can't beat a pit fiend not by thinking about the fiction and then assigning the pit fiend appropriate AC and hp, but by looking at the pit fiend stats in the MM. 4e is an exception: various of the devices discussed in this thread, like treating 1st level standard goblins as 10th (or whatever) level minions, minionising a lich, treating a phalanx of hobgoblins or a swarm of were...
  • 09:26 AM - Lanefan quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    What are the superheroic capabilities of a 17th level fighter in 5e?First and foremost, the same as the superheroic abilities of a 17th level fighter in all other editions: - to be able to withstand being hit ten times with an axe, each one of which blows would outright kill a typical innkeeper or farmer; - to be able to deliver blows faster, harder, and more accurately than any typical army soldier; and to keep doing so long after said soldier's arms would have tired out. Specific to 5e: - largely dependent on the feats that have been chosen for that particular fighter, most of which represent what would be superheroic abilities to a commoner. I can't imagine that even coming up. A question that makes more sense to me would be what would you do in 4e with a paragon gropu of PCs fighting a pit fiend? And the answer is, to rewrite it as a solo creature: a pit fiend is the sort of foe that can be defeated only if a whole group of paragon characters gives it their all. This just ...
  • 02:05 AM - Parmandur quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Manbearcat has already pointed out that the words are the same. What are the superheroic capabilities of a 17th level fighter in 5e? At 17th level, the Fighter gains a second action sugeand a third use of Indominitable. Getting off 12 arrows in 12 seconds is pretty superheroic. For that Tier, the Basic Champion gets "At 18th level, you regain hit points equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier at the start of each of your turns, as long as you have less than half your maximum hit points left. You don't gain this benefit if you have 0 hit points." So, becomes the Wolverine or Deadpool.
  • 12:50 AM - Imaro quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    @Manbearcat has already pointed out that the words are the same. What are the superheroic capabilities of a 17th level fighter in 5e? re-read what I posted earlier... Epic for 5e (in 4e terms) is play at 20th level and beyond.
  • 12:34 AM - Jester David quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    This example doesn't seem to raise issues that aren't already raised by (say) a thief's second story work ability. But in any event it is not an example of close scene resolution giving less room to improvise. How do you figure? One ability makes you literally climb faster and jump farther. The other says you need a specific ability to attempt a task, that prior to an ability being written could theoretically be attempted by anyone. Question Would you let a rogue player use a quarterstaff to pole vault as an improvised move? Would you still let that same rogue do so if a monk ability granted you the ability to pole vault? How about a feat? If yes, what is the benefit of taking that subclass or feat or you can just gain the benefit for free?
  • 12:28 AM - Imaro quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Hang on - so you don't want superheroics but you do want a power boost? Yes... 5e provides alternatives in place of 5e Epic Boons if you want something lower powered/less mythic in scope. Does 4e? You said this: But in fact it's trivial to just not use an epic destiny. Or, as MwaO pointed out, you might mandate use of the same epic destiny for everyone (eg Destined Scion was mentioned). I think anyone who found that hard wouldn't be up to the task of modifying 5e in the sorts of ways that you and Sadras are saying can be done for those who want play experience X or Y. I think it's easy to yank anything out of a game... it's understanding the consequences that I am asking about. Especially as it relates to combat and task resolution... are you saying a character with an epic destiny and one without are comparable in power?
  • 12:04 AM - Imaro quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Why not just ignore epic destinies if you don't like them? That doesn't seem like a super-hard variation to implement. Are they optional? Do they provide a power boost that is necessary for the higher levels? From what I remember the books presented them as a non-optional part of character advancement.

Monday, 12th November, 2018

  • 11:47 PM - Shasarak quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    I don't have any views about 3E. I've played only a very small amount of it, and as a design I think it has a number of well-known problems. The most interesting thing to be about 3E is that if you apply a level-bonus to AC but call it "natural armour" then many RPGers will regard that as a simulation even though it is just a label with no meaning in the fiction whatsoever (ie the best possible magic armour is +5 plate for around +14 AC, while there are natural armour bonuses in the 30s - what is "natural armour" that is so much better than what the best smith can possibly forge?). Mutatis mutandis for many other aspects of 3E. Why would the best possible magic armour that you could make for a human be the best possible armour? Logic tells me that bigger creatures with higher strength could have an armour that is better then the best human armour. For example why would Dragons be limited to wearing human armour? I think a muich bigger problem is when you can have a naked human with a...
  • 11:44 PM - BryonD quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    The most interesting thing to be about 3E is that if you apply a level-bonus to AC but call it "natural armour" then many RPGers will regard that as a simulation even though it is just a label with no meaning in the fiction whatsoever Can you show me these many? I don't think you can. I think you are in this place completely guilty of doing what 4E fans routinely accuse its critics of. That being, you are calling out one thing and then framing that as how "those guys" do things. "Natural Armor" is a HUUUGE handwave. Big dinosaurs are also good at getting out the the way of fireballs because they have REF saves tied to their HD. There are major warts in places of 3E. I have never, ever, heard anybody celebrate those warts "as a simulation". The system as a complete system *IS* very much celebrated as a embrace of simulation. But in the end it remains a practical game. These imperfections exist and are either simply accepted and ignored or, in some case, house-ruled around. ...
  • 08:23 PM - Jester David quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Are you able to explain how closed scene resolution gives you less room to improvise - eg an example of an action that you might want to declare but can't? Example Time! Working on a revision of my Tactician class. (You can see earlier iterations somewhere in this thread.) I'm poking away at a better 10th level ability for the "lancer" subclass. Little features that improve defence or mobility. And I had the idea for a pole vault feature. You plant your lance and add it's height to your high and long jump abilities. That sounds pretty cool, right? But... if I codify that, it means prior to 10th level, you cannot pole vault. And since it's a class feature, presumably you can't pole vault without that option or a comparable class feature. Suddenly, I've taken away a potential improvisational move, locking it behind a class feature. That's the problem...
  • 06:33 PM - Jester David quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    I don't have any views about 3E. I've played only a very small amount of it, and as a design I think it has a number of well-known problems. So then why are you weighing in when I talk about codification limiting imagination in 3.X?!? The most interesting thing to be about 3E is that if you apply a level-bonus to AC but call it "natural armour" then many RPGers will regard that as a simulation even though it is just a label with no meaning in the fiction whatsoever (ie the best possible magic armour is +5 plate for around +14 AC, while there are natural armour bonuses in the 30s - what is "natural armour" that is so much better than what the best smith can possibly forge?). Mutatis mutandis for many other aspects of 3E. Again, the edition wars are so 2010. I don't feel the need to discuss the benefits and cons of simulation and narrative in "natural armour bonus" vs "item bonus to armour". (The games I play use neither...) I agree with @Hussar (from past threads, not this one) that PC bui...
  • 05:08 PM - Sadras quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    I don't care what 5e GMs do. I'm explaining what features that 4e has that (i) are salient to me and (ii) are absent from 5e. Fair enough. I've never seen that done for combat in non-4e D&D at any table. And I don't think I've ever heard of it. People work out what the AC of an orc is by looking it up in a book (either directly, or by deciding that the orc is wearing (say) mail and then looking up mail on an AC-by-armour-type chart). People work out that a 1st level fighter can't beat a pit fiend not by thinking about the fiction and then assigning the pit fiend appropriate AC and hp, but by looking at the pit fiend stats in the MM. So what would you do in 4e with a 1st level PC attempting to strike a Pit Fiend? Not use AC? Skill challenge the entire combat? Minionise the Pit Fiend? As far as non-combat is concerned, this thread hasn't revealed (to me, at least) a consistent approach in 5e for setting DCs. Based on 5e adventure design, the DC range most tested predominantly lies betwe...
  • 04:11 PM - Sadras quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    As far as theatre of the mind is concerned, whatever floats your boat. In AD&D I don't bother tracking precise distances because they don't matter - there is no tracking of in-melee movement in AD&D, so the only question is whether someone is close enough to shoot or close enough to be engaged in melee. As Lanefan mentioned AoE spells very much care about precise distances. But the systems being compared were not AD&D and 4e but rather 5e and 4e. As far as I can tell @Manbearcat and I are the only posters in this thread who regularly play non-D&D systems (like MHRP/Cortex+ Heroic, Prince Valiant, and the like) that use conflict resolution mechanics that proceed as a 4e skill challenge does - first, establish feasibility in the fiction, then use the system framework to set a difficulty. I'm not sure what this has anything to do with that what we are discussing and doesn't everyone first establish feasibility in the fiction and then use the system framework to set the difficulty? Sure...
  • 12:03 AM - Jester David quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    This says nothing at all about closed scene resolution and how that gives less room to improvise. Nor does it describe anything that is different about 4e non-combat resolution from 5e non-combat resolution. The only examples of actiond declarations are "Activities like kipping up or kicking a sword into your hand or intimidating someone with a display of sword prowess. Or even using a whip to swing across a gap." It seems pretty clear to me how these might be adjudicated. I'm not seeing quite how 5e is different in this respect - it has character abilities that involve intimidation through sword prowess, and that involve increasing the number of free interactions with objects, so I'm not sure why 4e is seen to pose some special problem in this respect. I keep saying that this is a problem with 3e/4e/PF and you keep focusing on 4e, trying to turn this into a ďvs 4e Edition warĒ. But this isnít 2008 and I have zero interest in that kind of discussion...

Sunday, 11th November, 2018

  • 06:03 PM - Jester David quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Are you able to explain how closed scene resolution gives you less room to improvise - eg an example of an action that you might want to declare but can't? Sure. First, how much organised play have to engaged in? Living Greyhawk, Living City, Xen'Drick Expeditions, D&D Encounters, Pathfinder Society? How many published adventures have you run? How many convention tournaments have you done? I've done those activities a lot, and there's precious little improvisation in those games. Or even roleplaying at times. Just a lot of chucking of dice. 3e/4e/PF really seemed designed with organised play in mind. Regimented play with little adjudication. But there's virtually zero improvisation in organised/ convention play because that goes against the intent that everyone gets the same adventure run the same way. It's meant to be your skill with the character and tactical savvy that determines your success. How the DM runs the adventure isn't meant to be a variable. Second, is the option creep....
  • 05:43 PM - Parmandur quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    Saying "the rest is detail" is like saying the difference between having a determinate number of hp, or having the goblin die "when the GM thinks it's been hit enough", is just detail. Many people would think those are two pretty different resolution systems. 5e does not have a method for deciding, once feasibility of some non-combat action has been determined by reference to the fiction, (i) what a mechanically sound DC is, and (ii) how to resolve the conflict (as opposed to the task). 4e has both. That's the difference. Certainly there is such a system, as follows: (i) "is the declared action easy, moderate, hard, very hard, or basically impossible?" Each difficulty rating has a mechanically sound DC attached to it, 10-30. (ii) Roll the dice and adjudicate the result. Now, it is a simple system, but simple can be beautiful. In play, it is extremely effective and unrestrictive.
  • 05:26 PM - Cergorach quoted pemerton in post Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
    I've read many many discussions of "creative spellcasting" but have very rarely seen it argued that D&D would be better if (in lieu of spells) it adopted some version of the Ars Magic approach to casting. Let me be blunt, most people can't handle that much freedom, either creatively or mentally. Besides D&D having certain 'holy cows' which create a certain expectation in it's customers, there is also a balance that needs to be reached. D&D doesn't work for the majority of the players as either a total freeform game or a completely codified game. If you disagree, just look at the sales/revenue in the 4e era and now in the 5e era, sales say so much more then hypothetical discussions on an Internet forum. As for 'creative spellcasting', there is a big reason why Vampire The Masquarade was so much more popular then Mage The Ascension, sure Vampires attract a certain kind of Goth and with attractive Goths follow the nerds, but the spellcasting system was much more relatable then in Mage. I'm a...


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